Infallability

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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I have a Protestant friend who is unabashedly anti-Catholic. One of his main thrusts is the teaching of infallibility. He seems to try to point out inconsistencies in the teaching of infallibility such as this article, where the Vatican seemingly contradicted the Pope.

p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/30/not-so-fast-vatican-contradicts-comment-pope-franc/

When is church teaching infallible, or official doctrine? Can it be a quote from the Pope regarding a certain topic? Does he have to add “This is official church doctrine”, or “This is an infallible teaching”.

Confused,
Big BC
 
The content of the catechism may be taken as infallible teaching. Ex-cathedra proclamations, involving areas limited to faith and morals, directed to the world-wide Church are infallible. Statements made during interviews, off-hand comments, weather predictions, etc, are not. There have been exactly zero infallible proclamations in the past 60+ years.

Get a copy of Catholicism for Dummies and read up. It is an excellent, easily read resource that will allow you to defend your faith against the rampant error that is proclaimed by the millions of individual popes that infallibly declare that nothing s infallible. 🤷
 
If this is what passes for journalism at the Washington Times these days, it’s pretty pathetic. I didn’t realize it had gotten so bad.

Anyway, don’t be troubled. There is a distinction between “redemption” and “salvation,” which is further explained in this thread here. The Church has taught since the beginning that Christ died for all people, although it has never taught that all will be saved.

Also, the Pope’s statements were not made ex cathedra, so it’s not as if his statements have the assurance of infallibility. That being said, what he declared was correct in my opinion. The Pope understands the doctrine of invincible ignorance, and what he said does not contradict the Church’s teaching as later explicated by the Vatican spokesman.
 
The Pope didn’t say that atheists who do good will go to heaven. This is the media reading into things and taking things out of context. The Pope did say that all (even atheists) are redeemed, but as a previous poster said, that doesn’t mean they are going to heaven. It is possible that an atheist could make it to heaven by cooperating with God’s will, even if said atheist doesn’t realize it, but that is not a certainty.

So, the Vatican did not contradict the Pope, nor did the Pope change or contradict Church teaching. The Pope wasn’t speaking ex-cathedra, because what he said has already been defined. It is nothing new if you understand what he was saying.

The ultimate point of what the Pope was saying is that everyone is called to do good. And we can all work together (Christian, atheist, buddhist, etc.) to do good in this world and make it a better place.
 
po18guy said:
There have been exactly zero infallible proclamations in the past 60+ years.
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Incorrect:

John Paul II said:
"Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful."
Click to expand...
 
Big_BC said:
Thanks for the great responses.

What is “ex-cathedra”?
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newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm

Literally translated “from the chair”

“…when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter…”
 
So do I understand correctly then that it is not an infallable teaching unless the term ex-cathedra is used in the statement?

When and what was the last ex-cathedra statement by the Pope?
 
Big_BC said:
So do I understand correctly then that it is not an infallable teaching unless the term ex-cathedra is used in the statement?

When and what was the last ex-cathedra statement by the Pope?
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In 1954…the proclamation of the assumption of Mary.
 
pablope said:
In 1954…the proclamation of the assumption of Mary.
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Minor point but that occurred on November 1, 1950.

Side note regarding the assumption: the scientific discovery of fetal microchimerism came up in another thread. Jesus’ living cells, with His DNA, were present in Mary throughout her life, just as all mothers carry living cells from each of their children. So, from that aspect alone, Mary could not have been allowed to be buried and undergo decomposition. It tends to support the other Church teaching on Mary’s unique qualities, as well.
 
Big_BC said:
So do I understand correctly then that it is not an infallable teaching unless the term ex-cathedra is used in the statement?
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All teaching in the catechism may be taken as infallible, as it was produced under the normal Magisterium (teaching authority) of the Church.
 
OK, so all infallible teaching is either the statements made* ex-cathedra*, or under the Catechsim of the Catholic Church? What about Encyclicals?

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but I want to make sure that I thoroughly understand this to refute my Protestant friends
 
I should point out that since the word infallible means “incapable of error”, teachings cannot properly be said to be infallible - only people can. Infallibility is the charism by which the Church is preserved from teaching as true that which is false.
 
Big_BC said:
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I have a Protestant friend who is unabashedly anti-Catholic. One of his main thrusts is the teaching of infallibility. He seems to try to point out inconsistencies in the teaching of infallibility such as this article, where the Vatican seemingly contradicted the Pope.

p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/30/not-so-fast-vatican-contradicts-comment-pope-franc/

When is church teaching infallible, or official doctrine? Can it be a quote from the Pope regarding a certain topic? Does he have to add “This is official church doctrine”, or “This is an infallible teaching”.

Confused,
Big BC
Click to expand...
The Pope is only "infallible’ when speaking ex-cathedra. That means:

A) He must be speaking from the Seat of Peter AND;
B) He must be speaking on Faith & Morals ONLY

This is usually done in a public manner and it means that those Teachings are free from error. Why? Because the Magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit when forming doctrine.

Any statement the Pope makes outside the above is not infallible. i.e. if he predicts that it will rain tomorrow that is not an infallible statement or if he is giving a speech to a university audience then that is not an infallible statement. All personal opinions of the Pope are not infallible statements.

Your friend may be confusing infallibility with impeccability. Impeccability means one who does not sin. Infallibility in the Catholic notion means to ‘teach no error’.

Additionally, keep in mind that Protestants also must believe in the notion of infallibility when forming their own Doctrines. They believe that the Holy Spirit guides them either individually or their Senior church clergy or individual Pastor when he/she is forming their Doctrines and interpreting Scripture so that they do not teach error. Doctrines for every christian community cannot have formed in a void. It would be unbiblical if they tried to assert that the Holy Spirit has no say in the formation of their Doctrines. The Holy Spirit can never be the author of confusion.

Below is a more in-depth description of Papal Infallibility from Catholic.com

catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility
 
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