Infant Baptism and When is the true sabbath?

[ezeekl]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

Tell your friend this. Baptism is the circumcision of the New Covenant. St.Paul would call in Collossians 2:8, “a circumcision made without hands”. This is how the early church saw it. Indeed the only debate in the early church regarding infant baptism was whether it should be done immediately or wait, like circumcicision, until the eighth day. Origen, for instance, wrote in the third century that “according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants” (Holilies on Leviticus, 8:3:11 [A.D. 244]). The Council of Carthage, in 253, condemned the opinion that baptism should be withheld from infants until the eighth day after birth. Later, Augustine taught, “The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned . . . nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic” (Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).

None of the Fathers or councils of the Church everclaimed that the practice of infant baptism was contrary to Scripture or tradition. They agreed that the practice of baptizing infants was the customary and appropriate practice since the days of the early Church; the only uncertainty seemed to be when—exactly—an infant should be baptized. Further evidence that infant baptism was the accepted practice in the early Church is the fact that if infant baptism had been opposed to the religious practices of the first believers, why do we have no record of early Christian writers condemning it?

Regarding the Sabbath, the christians celebrated the “eighth” day as a day of christian worship for this was the day of resurrection, the day of the New Covenant, the New Creation and the day of the Lord.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

Regarding the baptism of infants, Lydia’s whole household was baptized (Acts 16:15) as was all the family of the jailer (Acts 16:33). Paul says he baptized the household of Stephanas (1 Cor 1:16). There is no reason in the text to exclude infants or children from the respective households and there is certainly no prohibition in the entire NT against the baptism of infants.

 

[JohnR77]

Greetings,

I have an article on

** SABBATH AND THE FIRST DAY**

The Sabbath of the Old Covenant has been replaced with the First Day of the week in the New Covenant.

And

** BAPTISM**
Baptism - what it is and why infants should be Baptized.

John

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Greetings,

I have an article on

** SABBATH AND THE FIRST DAY**

The Sabbath of the Old Covenant has been replaced with the First Day of the week in the New Covenant.

And

** BAPTISM**
Baptism - what it is and why infants should be Baptized.

John

Good arguments! Thanks.

 

[dreamfleur]

As a former SDA I can tell you that they do not practice infant baptism. Baptism is only given after one can accept and understand the teachings ( Biblical and SDA doctrine) and usually happens after age 13.

As for asking about the “TRUE SABBATH”… that sounds an awful lot like the basic evangelization technique employed by SDA. They always start either there or asking about the 10 commandments and saying that they were never changed. This will usually lead you into a Bible study or several of them where they will teach you what they believe by using specific verses in the Bible ( usually out of context) to back up their discourse.

Hope this helps!!!

 

[Holly3278]

Well, in the Bible we have examples of whole families being baptized. These whole families inevitably included infants since the use of birth control was not widespread back then although it did exist. Also, children were highly valued. Here are some examples of whole families being baptized from the Bible:

And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
(Acts 2:38-39 RSV-CE)

And when she was baptized, with her household, she besought us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
(Acts 16:15 RSV-CE)

And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.
(Acts 16:33 RSV-CE)

(I did baptize also the household of Steph’anas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any one else.)
(1 Corinthians 1:16 RSV-CE)

As for the Sabbath, that was for the ancient Jews. They celebrated and worshiped on the Sabbath. The reason why we worship on Sunday is because Jesus Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. Here is a much better explanation:

catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism

catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

And here are some articles on infant baptism:

catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

catholic.com/tracts/early-teachings-on-infant-baptism

 

[cet]

Hi folks. I’m a SDA… Maybe i can help a little when it comes to what SDA’s believe about these things…

When it comes to baptism, yes we do believe in a baptism that is chosen by the candidate. Children are under the protection of the parents, and are not to be held back from Christ, which is also why we practice child-blessing. To ask God to especially bless the child and help the parents protect it from evil, and also to lead the child to Christ, so he can take his own desicion when that time comes… We also don’t believe in an eternally burning hell, or purgatory (Which isn’t even mentioned in the scriptures). When it comes to the hell question, there is a very clear promise to the saved ones, and that is the gift of eternal life. The bible does not promise anything like that to the damned ones… It only promises death, and becoming ash, just like in sodom, and gomorrah. It actually says that the saved ones will thread on the ashes of the unsaved that perished… Hence we don’t believe that if a child that has christian parents will be lost, but will be saved on the account that the parents are believers. That is, when the child is to little to make it’s own desicions. When it grows up, it is an entirely different case…

When it comes to the Sabbath, someone have to show me where it says in the bible that the sabbath was given to the Jews, because i haven’t seen that -anywhere- in the scriptures. What i do find, on the other hand, is this:

Mar 2:27-28
“And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.”

It also says in Matthew 5:18 that : “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

What i find a bit suspicious is that the only authority that the catholic church justified the transferring of the holy day from the sabbath to sunday, it it’s own authority. Which to me seems more like circular reasoning than anything else… It’s like saying, Sunday is the holy day, because i say so…

I have to add at the bottom here, i do -not- hate catholics… Actually i tend to like all people, at least i like to think so… Thing is, i really believe that God has made it possible for everyone that earnestly wants to know truth, to be able to find it on their own, using the bible and praying to God for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, 'cause that is what Jesus Himself said:

John 16:13-14
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The spirit is given to everyone that seeks God’s truth, that is my belief.

With respect. (I really do mean that)
-c-

 

[Pax]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

Give your friend the following scriptural evidence for infant baptism:

Matthew 19:13-14
Then little children were being brought to him in order that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples spoke sternly to those who brought them; but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;

Luke 18:15-16
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they sternly ordered them not to do it. But Jesus called for them and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;

Col 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (i.e.,baptism replaces circumcision and children were circumcised as infants)

Scripture describes entire households that were baptized such as those of the Roman jailer, Lydia, and Stephanes. Scripture does not indicate that children were not included.

Luke 1 :15
The angel Gabriel says that John the Baptist , “even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

LUKE 7:28
I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John; yet the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
“I WANT you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.”

This is an abundantly clear OT prefiguring of baptism and being saved by baptism. The number of Israelites that left Egypt in Exodus is described as follows:

Exodus 12:37-38
And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very many cattle, both flocks and herds.

It is obvious from this account and Paul’s reference to passing through the Red Sea and baptism that the sacrament of baptism is for men, women, and children regardless of age.

I hope that helps and God bless.

 

[ezeekl]

Hi folks. I’m a SDA… Maybe i can help a little when it comes to what SDA’s believe about these things…

When it comes to baptism, yes we do believe in a baptism that is chosen by the candidate. Children are under the protection of the parents, and are not to be held back from Christ, which is also why we practice child-blessing. To ask God to especially bless the child and help the parents protect it from evil, and also to lead the child to Christ, so he can take his own desicion when that time comes… We also don’t believe in an eternally burning hell, or purgatory (Which isn’t even mentioned in the scriptures). When it comes to the hell question, there is a very clear promise to the saved ones, and that is the gift of eternal life. The bible does not promise anything like that to the damned ones… It only promises death, and becoming ash, just like in sodom, and gomorrah. It actually says that the saved ones will thread on the ashes of the unsaved that perished… Hence we don’t believe that if a child that has christian parents will be lost, but will be saved on the account that the parents are believers. That is, when the child is to little to make it’s own desicions. When it grows up, it is an entirely different case…

That is a novel idea. It certainly was not present in the early church who, taking a lesson from St. Paul saw Baptism as the circumciscion of the New Covenant. Paul described baptism as “…the circumcision made with out hands” [Col 2:11]. Circumcision was given to infants eight days after birth. The infant had no say in it. The parent’s decided. We know that the early church was quick to denounce any heretical teaching. But there is no such cry against infant baptism. In fact the only question about it was whether it should be done immediately or wait until the eighth day [like circumcision].

When it comes to the Sabbath, someone have to show me where it says in the bible that the sabbath was given to the Jews, because i haven’t seen that -anywhere- in the scriptures. What i do find, on the other hand, is this:

Mar 2:27-28
“And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.”

It also says in Matthew 5:18 that : “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

What i find a bit suspicious is that the only authority that the catholic church justified the transferring of the holy day from the sabbath to sunday, it it’s own authority. Which to me seems more like circular reasoning than anything else… It’s like saying, Sunday is the holy day, because i say so…

Well let’s see here Jesus says the Holy Spirit would lead the church into all truth and Jesus gives the authority to bind and loose to the church yet you seem to deny what scripture says. By the way the argument is not circular it is spiral. The church does not justify its authority by what it says. It justifies its authority by what Jesus said.

 

[SPH1]

You guys are being so helpful thank you.
Also I read online acts 8:37 which basically said that you need to believe to be baptized. but this verse was removed from many bibles including my catholic bible. So can someone explain this to me? please
Thanks again, you are helping a lost girl

Will you please post for us the Catholic bibles where the verse was removed? I see it in my bible. Thank you.

EDIT: Oh, I now see.

usccb.org/bible/acts/8

Footnote 8:37: * [8:37] The oldest and best manuscripts of Acts omit this verse, which is a Western text reading: “And Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ And he said in reply, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’”

So I guess the question is when it was added.

 

[lady3lla]

Thanks for allyour help guys. Do any fo you know about ICC → international christian church?
Ive been there a few time abd they teach discipleship which is great but they told me they can tell the catholic church doesnt teach it based on the fact that i didnt know about discipleship prior to that bible study.
At the study they also explain to me that baptism is right when we are older whih is why baptism is always depicted as an older person being baptized by Immersion in water, not sprinkled. Ive read the scripture that you guys posted about infant baptism but I dont know what to listen to!!

 

[Church_Militant]

Thanks for allyour help guys. Do any fo you know about ICC → international christian church?

Here’s a basic discussion of these people and where they come from.

Ive been there a few time abd they teach discipleship which is great but they told me they can tell the catholic church doesnt teach it based on the fact that i didnt know about discipleship prior to that bible study.

They’re dead wrong about that and you need to cease attending their services and Bible studies.

They also totally misrepresent the teachings of the New Testament and the Church in their study called “First Principles”. (Hit control F and search for the word Catholic) Have a look at this link from the ask an Apologist forum. is it a sin to participate in other denomination services?

The church has always taught authentic New Testament discipleship. Haven’t you read any of the lives of the saints like Francis of Assisi, Therese of Liseaux, and Maximilian Kolbe? I mean, c’mon…what was Mother Teresa of Calcutta, chopped liver? Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ certainly called us to Catholic discipleship in Matthew 25:31-46 and I don’t know about you, but I hear it reinforced all the time at Mass.

At the study they also explain to me that baptism is right when we are older whih is why baptism is always depicted as an older person being baptized by Immersion in water, not sprinkled. Ive read the scripture that you guys posted about infant baptism but I dont know what to listen to!!

You need to stop hanging out with them because they are misleading you and seeking to proselytize you away from your faith. Look at this article of theirs, which will tell you what they really think of us Catholics and our most holy faith. Most of what they say about us is “historically inaccurate”, (to put it nicely) Church History: Where it all went wrong (A Guide to understanding what has happened in almost 2000 years of church history)

I have some articles on my blog that deal with baptism and the early church which will probably help you see the holes in their teaching and “history”.
How Is A Catholic Saved?
Baptism~ Necessary or Not?
The Case For Infant Baptism
What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?
Catholic Confession
Scriptures About Penance
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE

If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM or email me here at CAF and I’ll be happy to help all I can, but I urge you to get away from those people and to get busy in your local parish and in the study of your Catholic faith.

You might want to make a small investment in the study of your faith by ordering a copy of

shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/e/beginning-apologetics-1.jpg Beginning Apologetics Volume 1: How to Explain and Defend the Catholic Faith
Special Price: $4.95