Infant Baptism and When is the true sabbath?

[lady3lla]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible.

She’s wrong:

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and your children" [Acts 2:38-39, NIV]

She needs to study that Bible a little better . So, my question for her is: why is she denying her children what they have been promised? Nobody should go to a church that denies children their rightful gift.

Also when is the true sabbath

The Sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is the Lord’s Day.

 

[NFrancis]

Regarding Infant Baptism:

catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism
catholic.com/tracts/early-teachings-on-infant-baptism

Regarding the Sabbath:
catholic.com/radio/shows/sunday-vs-the-sabbath-6879
catholic.com/quickquestions/since-the-sabbath-is-saturday-arent-we-breaking-a-commandment-by-not-observing-it
catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

I hope this helps

 

[lady3lla]

You guys are being so helpful thank you.
Also I read online acts 8:37 which basically said that you need to believe to be baptized. but this verse was removed from many bibles including my catholic bible. So can someone explain this to me? please
Thanks again, you are helping a lost girl

 

[phil19034]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.
QUOTE]

I highly recommend attending a Catholic Bible study before giving into the Protestant point of view. Keep in mind that their clergy are built on the idea that the Catholic Church is wrong, that’s notion slants their interpretation of the Bible and disregard of the Oral Teaching passed on by Jesus through his Apostles.

My father and sister were seduced by the Baptist church. By the time I had learned that my Dad was leaving the Church it was too late, he was “brainwashed” (as my Grandmother who was born Baptist and who is now Catholic says). I tried to get him to attend a Catholic Bible study to see the Catholic point of view, but the anti-Catholic teachings were firmly set in.

These anti-Catholic attacks have made me learn more about the Catholic faith and beliefs. The more I learn, the more I realize WHY the Catholic Church is the one True Church.

NOTE: I’m now trying to learn all I can about the Bible and the teachings of the Catholic Church so I can bring my Father back and perhaps one day my sister and convert her husband.

God Bless

 

[Dorothy]

The parents who are Christians decide on Baptism for their children, because they are going to bring them up in the faith. It is wrong to not teach children anything about the Lord, and then expect them to make their own decisions about faith when they are of age.

They receive grace at Baptism, and it is the parents duty to teach them as they grow up about what the Lord desires of us.

Because Jesus rose on a Sunday that is the day we set aside for worship and attend Mass, and spend time with our families.

 

[Michael57]

From the D-R online:

[26] Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying: Arise, go towards the south, to the way that goeth down from Jerusalem into Gaza: this is desert. [27] And rising up, he went. And behold a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge over all her treasures, had come to Jerusalem to adore. [28] And he was returning, sitting in his chariot, and reading Isaias the prophet. [29] And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. [30] And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?

[31] Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. [32] And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. [33] In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? [34] And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? [35] Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.

[36] And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said: See, here is water: what doth hinder me from being baptized?** [37] And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.** [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. [39] And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more. And he went on his way rejoicing. [40] But Philip was found in Azotus; and passing through, he preached the gospel to all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

LINK

Doesn’t look missing to me…

If you go to the link that I posted you’ll have access to one of my favorite versions of the Bible in English (published prior to the KJV) and it’s free (best price!).

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

Sounds like she is Seventh Day Adventist which snot really Christian.

The sabbath was replaced by the Lord’s Day n the NT God does not care what we call the Day of Rest as long as we set aside a day to rest and worship.

The Word Trinity is not in the Bible, nor is the word Bible, or a list of what should be in the Bible.

 

[lady3lla]

I guess its just my catholic bible that is missing that part. But if it says that we need faith to be baptized then is it okay that we were baptized as infants?
In planning to talk to my priest at my church to start up a young adults bible study because i know my interpretations are off

From the D-R online:

LINK

Doesn’t look missing to me…

If you go to the link that I posted you’ll have access to one of my favorite versions of the Bible in English (published prior to the KJV) and it’s free (best price!).

 

[InternetWoman]

Pope John Paul the Great (dare I say St. John Paul the Great?) wrote a great document called “The Day of the Lord”. It talks all about the sabbath vs. the Lords day and why it moved/changed and how we as Christians should treat Sunday. You can read it on line for free at:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

 

[bzkoss236]

I guess its just my catholic bible that is missing that part. But if it says that we need faith to be baptized then is it okay that we were baptized as infants?
In planning to talk to my priest at my church to start up a young adults bible study because i know my interpretations are off

Because the faith of the parents is sufficient if they raise their children in the faith. Like how the friends of the paralyzed man came to Jesus and by their faith, the man was healed, which is also used as a symbol for salvation.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I guess its just my catholic bible that is missing that part

It’s not just your Catholic Bible. You will not find Acts 8:37 in the main body of text of many modern protestant translations as well. For example, you will not find it in these modern protestant translations:

• The New International Version (NIV), which is the most widely used protestant text other than the King James Version (KJV), and the most widely used modern protestant translation.
• The New Living Translation (NLT)
• The English Standard Version (ESV)

My Catholic Bible (American Standard Version, ASV) likewise does not include this verse in the main body of the text. However the verse is marked as [37* in the main body, with the footnote noting:

The oldest and best manuscripts of Acts omit this verse, which is a Western text reading: "And Phillip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he [the eunich] said in reply, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

There are many ancient manuscripts of Biblical texts (none of which are original), and none of them agree. Some verses occur in one manuscript that do not occur in another. St. Jerome, who was commissioned by Pope Damascus to produce the official Catholic New Testament, the Latin Vulgate (still the official text today) scoured the land to find all the manuscripts he could find (none of which were original, even in Jerome’s time, an some of which do not survive to this day). He famously noted, with great frustration, “I have found as many versions as I have found copies.”

Modern linguists have access to all ancient manuscripts, and run them through computer software, along with other contemporary texts, to try to determine which passages are original and authentic. This is a science called “textual criticism,” although the name can be misleading because “criticism” has a negative connotation in English. Using these tools, modern linguists can produce better translations than St. Jerome, even though St. Jerome lived a very long time ago, closer to the time the Bible was written. We naturally assume that older translators, closer to the source, were better, but our modern translations are actually much better than anything that Jerome could have accomplished, and they get better over time as the science continues to evolve. A translation produced 100 years from now will actually be closer to the original text than anything we have today. Strange, but true.

So you will find this verse in older Catholic and protestant translations which pre-date the science of textual criticism, but not in modern Catholic and protestant translations with a scholarly basis.

The verse wasn’t “left out” of your Catholic Bible. The verse should have never been in ANY Bible. Your Catholic Bible (and modern protestant Bibles) correct this error.

 

[po18guy]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Tell her that her Protestant brothers in the Anglican, Episcopalian, Methodist and various Reformed (Calvinist/Presbyterian) communions all baptize babies, as have the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox for almost 2,000 years.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

The Sabbath is Saturday. HOWEVER: Jesus rising from the dead on Sunday, and sending the Holy Spirit - giving birth to the Church - on a Sunday caused the Apostles, by their Christ-given authority, to celebrate the Lord’s day of Sunday. As James Cardinal Gibbons taught, there is not a single line in scripture which teaches Sunday worship - that was revealed to us by the early Church, and Sunday ('first day of the week") meetings for worship and breaking the bread ARE in the bible.

 

[Robyn_p]

Sounds like she is Seventh Day Adventist which snot really Christian.

Just to be fair to them, it should be pointed out that though they do hold some odd beliefs that are outside mainline Christianity, Adventist’s do profess belief in core Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, the Incarnation, Redemption by Christ’s sacrifice etc…As such, the Church does consider them Christian and accepts their baptism as valid, unlike the JWs and Mormons.

It’s easy to lump them in with those other quasi-Christian sects, since they all started in America around the same time, and they were all overly concerned with the second coming of Christ and made prophecies about it that didn’t quite come true, but…they at least got most of their theology right, unlike the others. So I like to at least give them that.

Here’s a quote from a tract from Catholic Answers that deals with this.The whole thing is worth reading, pretty interesting stuff. I’m not computer savvy enough to post links, but if you just go on their website it’s pretty easy to find if your interested.

By virtue of their valid baptism, and their belief in Christ’s divinity and in the doctrine of the Trinity, Seventh-day Adventists are both ontologically and theologically Christians. But Christians, once separated from the Church our Lord founded, are susceptible to being “tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14).

 

[Church_Militant]

Sounds like she is Seventh Day Adventist which is not really Christian.

The sabbath was replaced by the Lord’s Day n the NT God does not care what we call the Day of Rest as long as we set aside a day to rest and worship.

The Word Trinity is not in the Bible, nor is the word Bible, or a list of what should be in the Bible.

Good points all.

I would strongly advise that you bail on that study because what you are really getting is not a study of the Bible, but of her particular sect’s inaccurate interpretation. Ask her straight up if she’s SDA, because they often won’t tell you when they finagle you into their “studies” which are (at best) nothing more than thinly disguised anti-Catholic efforts to proselytize you away from your Catholic faith.

As for your questions. One good member here has already shown you that she misled you about the “missing verse” in Acts 8, but it sounds like you have a NAB Bible which should also include the following footnote.

• 8:37] The oldest and best manuscripts of Acts omit this verse, which is a Western text reading: “And Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ And he said in reply, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’”

I also suggest that you see,
[Why is Acts 8:37 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0XWA5kE3Vd-0HrQVLikbiFw&bvm=bv.53899372,d.eWU) omitted from many Bible translations?

Her opposition to infant baptism is wrong and I have an article on my blog that you can print out and give her to help drive home the point. The Case For Infant Baptism

As for her 7th day sabbath points, here again she’s way wrong. Up in the Ask an Apologist forum you will find the following answers.

• Why do Catholics worship on Sunday?
• Sabbath or Sunday?

 

[po18guy]

Hey guys, I have a friend who goes to a christian church and she was doing a bible study with me and said how infant baptism isn’t biblical because it is no where in the bible. She said I shouldn’t be part of a church which support Infant baptism.

Also when is the true sabbath, most say sunday but I think saturday is actually the 7th day. But Im unsure.
Thanks so much for your help guys.

Say! Next time, be sure to ask her where the “Sacred Table of Contents” is contained in the bible. I mean, where can you go in scripture to tell you which books belong in there? Let her mull that one over a bit.

She could also be SDB (Seventh-Day Baptist) or even Sabbatarian Anabaptist, although the SDA is the likely suspect. But, we are talking tiny sects here - numbering about the same membership as the Bible Students, the group from which the JWs split off.

 

[DavidFilmer]

She could also be SDB (Seventh-Day Baptist) or even Sabbatarian Anabaptist, although the SDA is the likely suspect. But, we are talking tiny sects here - numbering about the same membership as the Bible Students, the group from which the JWs split off.

I think the whole discussion of the OP’s friend’s affiliation is irrelevant. The OP asked about the “Sabbath.” This topic is central to SDA theology, but the OP did not say that the protestant friend (who objected to infant Baptism) was SDA. To me, these seem to be unrelated questions.

In fact, the SDA accepts and practices infant Baptism using the Trinitarian form, and is thus generally accepted as a Christian Church by the Catholic Church, as Robyn p has pointed out in this thread. This was actually unknown to me, but I checked out the source, and found that the official position of the Catholic Church is exactly as described.

I encourage the OP to reveal the theological perspective of the woman who raised questions about infant Baptism. It is helpful for us to know this perspective when we reply. It is unlikely that the woman was a Seventh Day Adventist, as they practice infant Baptism.

 

[po18guy]

Well, when the plane’s on fire, I bail.

 

[po18guy]

I think the whole discussion of the OP’s friend’s affiliation is irrelevant. The OP asked about the “Sabbath.” This topic is central to SDA theology, but the OP did not say that the protestant friend (who objected to infant Baptism) was SDA. To me, these seem to be unrelated questions.

In fact, the SDA accepts and practices infant Baptism using the Trinitarian form, and is thus generally accepted as a Christian Church by the Catholic Church, as Robyn p has pointed out in this thread. This was actually unknown to me, but I checked out the source, and found that the official position of the Catholic Church is exactly as described.

I encourage the OP to reveal the theological perspective of the woman who raised questions about infant Baptism. It is helpful for us to know this perspective when we reply. It is unlikely that the woman was a Seventh Day Adventist, as they practice infant Baptism.

FYI, from the official SDA website (bolding mine):

"Baptism Z15 By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our pur- pose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

This is the standard “believer’s baptism” which, by definition, excludes infants. From the Wiki (bolding mine):

Denominations and religious groups opposed to paedobaptism[edit]
Trinitarian Christian denominations that oppose infant baptism include the Assemblies of God, Association of Vineyard Churches, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Churches of God, Calvary Chapel, Community Churches, Evangelical Free Church, Baptists, Gnostic Churches, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Churches/Churches of Christ, and Churches of Christ as well as other Nondenominational Churches, Church of God in Christ, Church of God of Prophecy, Grace Communion International, Anabaptists such as Mennonite and Amish, Schwarzenau Brethren/German Baptists, Seventh-Day Adventists,

So, this may or may not be germane to the thread. Why not let the OP speak up? Until then, I’m bailing.

 

[Michael57]

I guess its just my catholic bible that is missing that part. But if it says that we need faith to be baptized then is it okay that we were baptized as infants?
In planning to talk to my priest at my church to start up a young adults bible study because i know my interpretations are off

If I might make a suggestion, why not a young adults study of the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

You could also look at the references cited for each section. Biblical, Early Church Fathers, Encyclicals, etc.

That way you and the group would get the teaching of the Church passed down through the ages.

Check with your priest.