Infertility

[crazzeto]

Some couples are really struggling with infertility and IVF. When the desire to have children is so strong, it can make us question the teachings of the church on IVF as well as other methods of conceiving, in order to achieve the ultimate desire to have a child… It’s really important to find out why the church is saying No to IVF. Our Faith requires two important aspects from us, a love of God and knowledge of His ways. We are so fortunate in the Catholic Church to have a true voice of authority, through the teachings of the church, our catechism , the magisterium, the pope. We have to listen to it if we want to protect our souls.

I would strongly recommend that we find out “Why” we should not do IVF. There are excellent books available on the new reproductive technology from a Catholic perspective. They might even sell here at Catholic Answers. I know there is a book available at Family life Center International (on line), called " Life Issues, Medical Choices", by Janet Smith and Christopher Kaczor. It addresses these issues. The biggest problem with these procedures is that there is no marital act involved. Sex was designed by God, to unite a couple in love and to allow for creation because of that love. IVF seperates , manipulates and does not allow for making love.
Anyone who has suffered infertility knows how mechanical it all becomes. One often wonders where the love and pleasure has gone. How much do we love and trust our Lord to see us through our suffering? Before you make your decisions based on your own personal moral choice, rather than our Lords, inform yourself fully. God says Yes, No and Wait.
He told us wait, 13 years before our first child arrived through the gift of adoption. The problem with me is that I wasted alot of time suffering instead of accepting, praying and offering up my sorrows to God. Think of all the souls that could have been saved during my suffering and yours. Our 3rd child arrived when I was 48 and my husband was 50. He likes to joke that he got a 3 year old for his 50th birthday! God is good… Do it His way and He will bless you.

Agreed, we commit the same mistake as Adam and Eve when we so casually say yes despite God’s no. IVF isn’t condemed for no good reason, I would join in exhorting my fellow posters and readers into studying the matter more closely. One good starting place is the document published by the CDF which I linked earlier, there are many more wonderful resources on the matter.

Remember, Holy Mother Church is looking out for our best interest. And she has never been wrong. We should consider more closely doing what momma says.

 

[LittleDeb]

Some couples are really struggling with infertility and IVF. When the desire to have children is so strong, it can make us question the teachings of the church on IVF as well as other methods of conceiving, in order to achieve the ultimate desire to have a child… It’s really important to find out why the church is saying No to IVF. Our Faith requires two important aspects from us, a love of God and knowledge of His ways. We are so fortunate in the Catholic Church to have a true voice of authority, through the teachings of the church, our catechism , the magisterium, the pope. We have to listen to it if we want to protect our souls.

I would strongly recommend that we find out “Why” we should not do IVF. There are excellent books available on the new reproductive technology from a Catholic perspective. They might even sell here at Catholic Answers. I know there is a book available at Family life Center International (on line), called " Life Issues, Medical Choices", by Janet Smith and Christopher Kaczor. It addresses these issues. The biggest problem with these procedures is that there is no marital act involved. Sex was designed by God, to unite a couple in love and to allow for creation because of that love. IVF seperates , manipulates and does not allow for making love.
Anyone who has suffered infertility knows how mechanical it all becomes. One often wonders where the love and pleasure has gone. How much do we love and trust our Lord to see us through our suffering? Before you make your decisions based on your own personal moral choice, rather than our Lords, inform yourself fully. God says Yes, No and Wait.
He told us wait, 13 years before our first child arrived through the gift of adoption. The problem with me is that I wasted alot of time suffering instead of accepting, praying and offering up my sorrows to God. Think of all the souls that could have been saved during my suffering and yours. Our 3rd child arrived when I was 48 and my husband was 50. He likes to joke that he got a 3 year old for his 50th birthday! God is good… Do it His way and He will bless you.

:clapping: Wonderful post!! A beautiful story of knowledge and fidelity in times of suffering. How wonderful that your journey taught you more about sacrifice. This is exactly why the Lord has called such amazing people to Him more intimately through the struggle of infertility. Welcome to CAF, karenu!

 

[liliana51886]

Christ doesn’t want us to be sheep! that must be the complete opposite of what God wants.
Life isn’t about being a sheep. What ever decision people make it shouldn’t be following a flock.
That’s at least one thing I learnt at my Catholic school.

IVF doctors aren’t God either. If you ever do an IVF cycle you’ll discover just how little is in Man’s hands.

• Will there be follicles?
• Will they be the right size?
• Will there be an egg?
• Will the sperm be okay?
• Will the egg fertilise?
• Will it grow?
• Will the embryo be viable with good number of cells?
• Will the womb lining be thick enough?
• Will it implant?
  Then, after that is the two week wait.
  Then more waiting and praying.

You think this isn’t in God’s hands!
IVF, if anything, increased my faith that a God exists. (We also have no frozen embryos or murdered embryos)

My friend you might want to take a look at the bible again, and the CCC. No where does it say to follow society CORRECT… but it does say to follow CHRIST as our shepard. He gives us the rules, because he knows what is right for us. I really like the passage that other person put, about how the lord is our shepard we shall not want. But I would like you to think about what you are saying above. You state that there are no babies killed in the process… yet the last four questions are speaking of a already fertilized embryo ( life begins at conception) so… will it grow, will the embryo be viable with a good number of cells, will the womb be thick enough, and will it implant… ummm. huh. think about that my friend. Also… if there are no frozen embryos, why is there something called embryo adoption? For all the human beings that are no longer wanted by their family? and left on ice? Look it up. It looks like you my friend are not educated on our place with God, as his friend but following his guidelines to a happy life… and also on IVF and the law of life.

 

[liliana51886]

I found so much inspiration in your post. I’ve struggled with infertility the entire time we’ve been married and am turning 35 this month. We just want so badly to have a child and it is so hard to see so many people-even Catholics just going ahead and getting IVF and having babies sometimes. I feel so alone sometimes… It really adds to the struggle. I would love if we could email each other for support and inspiration for how to trust in His will no matter how painful, when there is so much temptation to manipulate our will instead into this heartache. Thank you again for your post.

I am very happy that you were able to find comfort in my words. I understand where you are comming from! I would be happy to talk to you outside of the forum. my email adress is liliana_51886@hotmail.com

 

[liliana51886]

Christ doesn’t want us to be sheep! that must be the complete opposite of what God wants.
Life isn’t about being a sheep. What ever decision people make it shouldn’t be following a flock.
That’s at least one thing I learnt at my Catholic school.

IVF doctors aren’t God either. If you ever do an IVF cycle you’ll discover just how little is in Man’s hands.

• Will there be follicles?
• Will they be the right size?
• Will there be an egg?
• Will the sperm be okay?
• Will the egg fertilise?
• Will it grow?
• Will the embryo be viable with good number of cells?
• Will the womb lining be thick enough?
• Will it implant?
  Then, after that is the two week wait.
  Then more waiting and praying.

You think this isn’t in God’s hands!
IVF, if anything, increased my faith that a God exists. (We also have no frozen embryos or murdered embryos)

I forgot one passage which is the most important ( one of many) which shows that we are sheep, he is the shepard, and the pope has the authority ( church) John 21:15-17

15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?”
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”
16Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you truly love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”
17The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep."

Jesus = Shepard
Peter = Shepard- Representing the church on Earth
We= Sheep and Lambs.

Was Christ not the Lamb sent to the slaughter? The Slaughter that lead to the gates of heaven to be opened, and to our salvation? So to must we follow his footsteps being the silent lamb, offering our sufferings to christ which he gives us, also, earning the key to heaven.
It reminds me of what Christ said to Saint Faustina…“Know, too, that the darkness about which you complain I first endured in the Garden of Olives when My Soul was crushed in mortal anguish. I am giving you a share in those sufferings because of My special love for you and in view of the high degree of holiness I am intending for you in Heaven. A suffering soul is closer to My heart.”(Jesus to suffering souls - 1487)

… A suffering soul… is closer to my heart… He has a special love for us, and has a special place for us in heaven… that is why he permits us to suffer. So we are able to unite our sufferings with him… and as a result we are united with Christ.

God Bless

 

[user3856530]

You state that there are no babies killed in the process… yet the last four questions are speaking of a already fertilized embryo ( life begins at conception) so… will it grow, will the embryo be viable with a good number of cells, will the womb be thick enough, and will it implant… ummm. huh. think about that my friend. Also… if there are no frozen embryos, why is there something called embryo adoption? For all the human beings that are no longer wanted by their family? and left on ice? Look it up. It looks like you my friend are not educated on our place with God, as his friend but following his guidelines to a happy life… and also on IVF and the law of life.

Do you really want the answers? Will you believe them?

The last four points are as relevant to natural procreation as they are to IVF. Did you not know that? - look it up.

We didn’t have any frozen embryos. We only had one, which we used.
Please open your mind and just don’t blindly follow everything the Catholic church says.

 

[titi920]

All,
I am a practicing Catholic because I believe in our apostolic religion. As such I believe that our church has been guided by the holy spirit and I believe in the teachings of our Christ and church. If did not, I would convert…

As a follower of our faith, and a childless woman struggling with infertility, I had hoped this place would be a haven for me.

As part of an infertile couple, I can find more than enough resources and suggestions for IVF…that is where I despair! That is solution handed to me time and time and time again in 2010.

IVF is against my faith and beliefs. I do not judge anyone who has had IVF-I just know in my heart that following God’s true will for me on his time and terms has always lead to the most joy, despite how I may suffer before I understand the joy He has to come for me.

Please understand there is an additional pain and separation that goes along with be devout Catholic and LTTTC. When others with the ivf option reach my point, they still have great help and resources to make a baby. With my beliefs, where I’m at may be the end of the line-it is where God says No, or Not Now and I trust Him. Just because I trust doesn’t mean there isn’t suffering. We trust that our loved ones go to heaven and may be happy their suffering is over but it still hurts us.

I will be 35 this month and we have been unable to ever obtain a pregnancy. This alone is need for so much support, but I was overjoyed when I found this thread b/c I thought I could finally have the support and community with others who, like me, continuously meet with doctors and peers that don’t understand why IVF is not the next natural step.

And yet-here I am, on Catholic Infertility for months and months, and rather than the support so many women need-I the thread seems to be overrun with the argument for or against IVF and so many statements opposite to what we’re taught then support for our individual journeys.

For those of you that have had lovely children with IVF…based on the things that have been written, you are happy and don’t feel you have done any wrong. You have gotten to bare children and can probably no longer understand what it is like for those of who actually desire to follow God’s teachings and hurt b/c that is not an option for us…so why make this harder? Why even post in a thread with people that hurt like this? It is counterproductive and selfish…We cannot change your minds and you cannot change ours…so this thread would be such a selfless act of love and help if women/men who have experienced infertility and either conception through God’s original design or no conception and a progression to acceptance and happiness could post their stories, support, etc. instead of everyone using this as a he said/she said.

Love to all-this is just my observation and true feelings after signing up in May and just mostly silently watching.

Thank you to the women who have reached out to me in this hard time, with wonderful blessed suggestions. It has meant so much.

 

[crazzeto]

Do you really want the answers? Will you believe them?

The last four points are as relevant to natural procreation as they are to IVF. Did you not know that? - look it up.

We didn’t have any frozen embryos. We only had one, which we used.
Please open your mind and just don’t blindly follow everything the Catholic church says.

How sad, that you have so throughly deluted your self that you actually beleive this…

 

[crazzeto]

Do you really want the answers? Will you believe them?

The last four points are as relevant to natural procreation as they are to IVF. Did you not know that? - look it up.

We didn’t have any frozen embryos. We only had one, which we used.
Please open your mind and just don’t blindly follow everything the Catholic church says.

I suggest you go back and reread what you post, please do it… Honestly, it just doesn’t jive with… reality.

 

[liliana51886]

Do you really want the answers? Will you believe them?

The last four points are as relevant to natural procreation as they are to IVF. Did you not know that? - look it up.

We didn’t have any frozen embryos. We only had one, which we used.
Please open your mind and just don’t blindly follow everything the Catholic church says.

Dear user3856530,
I went to youtube, to watch videos on how IVF works. This is the first video I clicked on. The video actually comes from a side that promotes IVF… But it does state these exact words…
" The technique of In Vitro Fertilization, or IVF, removes SERVERAL eggs from the ovary for fertilization in the laboratory. After a few days one or two of these fertilized eggs which are now known as embryos, are returned to the uterus in the hope that they implant, and become a pregnancy"

So, tell me what happens to all the other eggs that have been fertilized (embryos) that are not returned to the uterus?

1. They are destoyed
2. They are Frozen
   a. Later Destoyed when no longer needed
   b. Later “returning them to the uterus”

Sometimes there are more than one embryo that is “returned to the uterus”… is it not putting these now human lives in danger? Their chances of surviving are low… and that is why they try to implant … or “return to the uterus” more than one. While all, or one can implant… all or one can die also.

The most important point is the First point I make above… relating to the question where all the other eggs go that have been fertilized? Destoyed my friend. Human life. Destoyed.

Here is the Video, It starts to talk about the process specifically around 50 sec.

youtube.com/watch?v=GeigYib39Rs

God Bless

 

[liliana51886]

Do you really want the answers? Will you believe them?

The last four points are as relevant to natural procreation as they are to IVF. Did you not know that? - look it up.

We didn’t have any frozen embryos. We only had one, which we used.
Please open your mind and just don’t blindly follow everything the Catholic church says.

Here is another video that goes into much more detail…

youtube.com/watch?v=3WypK9TpD34

It states that 4-16 eggs are taken for fertilization…
( if all 16 are fertilized, what happens to the other 15 human beings? )

Then it states that 1 - 3 are implanted in the uterus…

So… again… what happens to the other embryos?

If even shows at the end of the movie, that you can freeze the embryos for later use. REALLY? FREEZING HUMAN BEINGS? How awful and cruel.

Jesus says that we need to love the all especially the little ones. and the most vunerable.

Tell me that here… they are not vunerable.

 

[titi920]

Before you make your decisions based on your own personal moral choice, rather than our Lords, inform yourself fully. God says Yes, No and Wait.
He told us wait, 13 years before our first child arrived through the gift of adoption. The problem with me is that I wasted alot of time suffering instead of accepting, praying and offering up my sorrows to God. Think of all the souls that could have been saved during my suffering and yours… Do it His way and He will bless you.

Thank you so much for sharing this. Infertility has given me two big fears-one that I will never carry a child, and 2…that I will get so fixed on my own suffering for one that I will miss God’s true will for me which I know is joyous. We cannot afford private adoption and one thing I never thought I would be able to do is adopt an older child from the state. My own will and desire to have a “baby” was so great and I was so afraid that these children might need more (behavioral or emotional issues) then I could give-

I have been praying for God to change my mind if this is His will for me instead of our own child at this time, or ever and I am happy to say that once again He has intervened. I am suddenly so eager to help a child that does not have a family…the process of course is so daunting…I would love support and advice, even just to hear some of your story.

Thank you and God Bless

 

[titi920]

I am very happy that you were able to find comfort in my words. I understand where you are comming from! I would be happy to talk to you outside of the forum. my email adress is liliana_51886@hotmail.com

Thank you so much!!!

 

[user3856530]

How many times do I have to post this?

We made ONE embryo in our IVF cycle.

NO EMBRYOS WERE FROZEN
NO EMBRYOS WERE DESTROYED

I know in the US, IVF clinics often hyperstimulate the ovaries, BUT WE DIDN’T!

do people think I’m lying or something?

 

[liliana51886]

I understand why you would be upset and I am sorry for your feelings.

I have been trying to find a way online, that says it only takes one egg… but I havn’t found what that process is called. Do you know?

The only thing that I have found… is only taking one embryo, and implanting it in the uterus. Which still leaves all the rest of the embryos that were fertilized, to be destoyed. I couldn’t find anything stating that it only takes 1 egg. Even with out using the hormones… I seen less eggs like one or to… but that still dosn’t take out the aspect that you are having a baby be created in a test tube. Man, acting like God. Pretending to be God. You take out the beautiful act of unity, which creates human life only with God being the mediator. That beautiful act of unity, only God should be in between the two ( that is also why contraception is wrong)… the act of unity which unites the to, and if it is God’s will… he will unite the 2, creating a life out of Love. The ultimate act of love, and unity. Creating life.

By the way, someone mentioned about Vaccines not being natural also, but we do use them. I would like to make all aware that, many of the vaccines that we are using today have been made in an aborted fetus. Check it out. cogforlife.org/fetalvaccines.htm

 

[crazzeto]

How many times do I have to post this?

We made ONE embryo in our IVF cycle.

NO EMBRYOS WERE FROZEN
NO EMBRYOS WERE DESTROYED

I know in the US, IVF clinics often hyperstimulate the ovaries, BUT WE DIDN’T!

do people think I’m lying or something?

First of all, you seem to view the rational apprasial of IVF as some kind of personal attack on you… As if posters here are saying you personally did xy&z… No such thing has ever been stated, posters are commenting on general IVF procedures, this may or may not exactly match what you chose to do.

Secondly, no matter how you present it IVF goes directly against the natural law. Infertility is a cross given by God to bare. We may not fully understand why God might give some such a burdonsome cross, but he does and as Christ asked we should pick it up and follow him (Luke 9:23-24).

I do not write what I do to accuse or condem… I may not ever have participated in IVF but believe me, I my self have done more than enough to be condemed as well. Fortunetly what matters most is turning to Christ, it can destroy any sin. Ultimatly that is really the only exortation that has been made by us… Merely turn to Christ, and live as Christ wants you to live. For some it might mean a terrible self denial, but Christ wouldn’t ask so much if it couldn’t be done.

Again, for those who suffer infertility, there are a number of options to raise a child which do not involve circomventing Gods commands and the natural law. Why not explore adotion for instance?

 

[liliana51886]

well said!

 

[user3856530]

God gives people crosses to bear, but He often also give people courage to find solutions.
I’m sure words to this effect must be more eloquently phrased in the bible somewhere.

I understand why you would be upset and I am sorry for your feelings.

I have been trying to find a way online, that says it only takes one egg… but I havn’t found what that process is called. Do you know?

This doesn’t really have a name.
The people extracting the egg just took one. There were two follicles, and only one had an egg. If we had two eggs we would have used both of them.

The problem is that many clinics are worried about their success rates, so they hyper-simulate the ovaries and extract multiple eggs. Other clinics will cherry pick patients, so older women are rejected.
The clinic we went to does neither of these. It may be difficult to find a clinic like this because they are so worried about success rates.

Man, acting like God. Pretending to be God. You take out the beautiful act of unity, which creates human life only with God being the mediator.

Hardly. See my previous post about this above.
Where does the egg come from? or the sperm?

That beautiful act of unity, only God should be in between the two ( that is also why contraception is wrong)… the act of unity which unites the to, and if it is God’s will… he will unite the 2, creating a life out of Love. The ultimate act of love, and unity. Creating life.

Interesting you should mention contraception. Looks like the Pope has had a change of heart about condoms!
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804398

 

[liliana51886]

Interesting you should mention contraception. Looks like the Pope has had a change of heart about condoms!
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804398

WHOA! As you know… the press definelty streches and can twist what a Pope says… number one. Number two… He was discussing Aids… Number three The Pope has not changed his mind on condoms, and number four… the Pope was speaking as a person, not as a teaching of the church, in a infallable way, or through a encyclical ( sp?)

Please read this article.

ncregister.com/blog/the-pope-said-what-about-condoms

This one goes a bit deeper.

renewamerica.com/columns/giunta/101121

They took, one sentance… and twisted it. The media is always attacking the church especially the pope…
Here is the quote from which they twisted…

"There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality. [EMPHASIS ADDED]"
Now… since the Pope talked about prostitution in the quote… does that mean he is for prostitution? COME ON!

You can hardly EVER believe what the media says about the church. Please read the articles that I have posted

 

[user3856530]

Something has definitely changed in the Pope’s attitude towards condom use. If it was just one report, then, fair enough it could possibly be twisted or simply untrue. However, this has made worldwide news, so there must be at least some substance to it.

There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality. [EMPHASIS ADDED]

Prior to this, condoms were not allowed, even for people with HIV.
The Pope is in a very difficult position, and I respect him for having the courage to even make this statement.

(Did you read the rest of my post BTW?)