Infertility

[Amber2]

Dear anilorak

I just read your post and my heart goes out to you. I know what it feels like having done so much for so long and then in the end you are still just as childless. I am sorry that you lost that little girl.
I really hope the embryo adoption will work for you in the next attempt. I really appreciate that you are making a group at your church. It is really an area where so manny couples suffer and there is not much going on usually in terms of mutual support and openness.
I wish you all the best and will be praying for you.
As fo us we have been ttc for 5 years and with Fertilitycare the last 3 years about. They just put me on low dose hormones and low dose Naltrexone. I have not really felt that their promises of finding and treating the underlying causes have been met but I guess it might be a more european problem. I am just now looking into the option of having another endometriosis surgery and I have started taking prednisone which is supposed to help when the immune function is somehow involved with infertility as is often the case with endometriosis etc (I found out through a field called Reproductive immunology which is very very interesting but unfortunately not ever mentioned by my napro-doctor)
God bless you
Amber

 

[anilorak13ska]

**forHim **- thanks! I just joined the Yahoo group.
**Amber **- thanks also. Whereabouts in Europe are you? I’m from Poland, honeymooned in Spain, and after our little VV was taken from us, I only survived but by the grace of God giving DH a temporary job assignment in Germany where I joined him for 2 months. So your situation is “unexplained IF”? That’s got to be soo frustrating! I thought I was frustrated when we couldn’t find an explanation for the cause of the azoospermia. It still bugs me, bc all his tests are normal, he’s had no exposure to anything that would normally indicate the cause of failure to produce sperm. For a long time, we sort of held out hope that it was due to DH’s excess weight, but if that were true, only overweight men would have NOA. Recently, DH said he thought God revealed to him that not only would our last two embies “take” and we’d have twins, but that later, after he got in shape again and lost the weight, we’d have a third bio. Sadly, I’ve learned that wishful thinking is not the same thing as faith. So I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Amber2]

Dear anilorak,
I sent you a PM

 

[ryecroft]

I hope your move is as easy as possible…I have a friend who used Dr. Keefe. she became pregnant 6 months later, and she was a mess from a previous doctor. Dr. Keefe was able to fix that…I know she’s good, but after all I’ve gone through with the wedge resection the infected wound, the attitude issues of my doctor now (was trained by Dr hilgers) I’ve written on many posts my experiences…I just think…I’m a couple weeks away from 38…I need the best possible circumstance…between going to St. Philomena’s shrine in Italy on my birthday and seeing Dr. hilgers, I feel if it doesn’t happen, I’ll just move on easier…go back to being a “career woman” I have so much weight to lose too. I have to lose a good 50 pounds to be “normal weight” I’ve already lost 5 of that…wish it came off as easy as it goes on. You know the PCOS causes insulin resistance which makes your stomach big? It also puts you in a high estrogen state which is no good…especially since pregnancy is a low estrogen state…I take the progesterone pills too. Of course I have thyroid issues too, so things working against my success, but it’s coming…just slower. The best thing is that Dr. Hilgers and the PPVI institute are both, along with Creighton University Medical Ctr are all “in-network”? as of January Th this year for my insurance…the difference between my maximum cost of out of pocket health care this year fom 12,500, to $5000.00…major good news. I’m praying I don’t need another Laperotomy, but my charting 18 months after my wedge resection are looking very much like they did before the surgery. I hope your family is able to make it to your wedding…I moved where I am “temporarily” and ended up meeting my husband who has to work in LA for his job. No-one came to my wedding. My side of the church had about 25 people on it and the other side packed…OH well, I was there for the sacrement…NOT to look good. (actually one person came…the priest who taught my RICA and is my spiritual director X13 years! Most important guest!..my sponsor who already lived here was my matron of honor so I guess my spiritual family came. My sister said she would come…told my husband as a secret, and backed out…only problem was he told the secret. If you start getting home sick…just keep in mind it’s not a party, it’s a sacrement…between the two of you, God and your witnesses…it’s what kept me a float. It’s good you are still young and that you know. like we did, of a problem before marriage. I have 8 years on you but infertility is stressful at any age. I’ll really be praying for your smooth transition, and a baby

Oh! Don’t give up - I’m in my 30’s and have kidney disease - we have problems keeping a pregnancy going - so not so much infertility as getting pregnant then not making it past 3 months. But I do know multiple women who either began at 41 (she has 2 kids and not such an odd story) - also my best friend is almost 40 and just had an unplanned pregnancy. So please don’t count yourself out (unless you feel that’s what’s best for you!)-
Please pray for me - I’ll pray for you!
God Bless
Rye

 

[Amber2]

HI there guys

you know after dealing with infertility for some years I guess we all have gathered a bit of knowledge about the topic. I just can’t help giving my two cents.

If you have PCO and overweight I really recommend the low glychemic diet. A fertility doctor where I am from wrote abook about this diet and of all his patients who get pregnant more than half never needed even hormonal stimulation. They just got pregnant with the diet. I have tried it my self shortly and although I don’t even have PCO my hormones really improved within 1-3 weeks.

As for having problems keeping a pregnancy I just recently read the most interesting book. It was by Dr. Alan E Beer: Is your body baby friendly. His population of patients was also usually the tough cases who had had many failed IVF and miscarriages etc and his succes rates were amazing. He specialised in immunologic causes for infertility/miscarriage. If you can’t hold on to a pregnancy I’d really recommend the book. His succes rate was 85% so he must have been doing something right

Best wishes to all of you
Amber

 

[ryecroft]

HI there guys

you know after dealing with infertility for some years I guess we all have gathered a bit of knowledge about the topic. I just can’t help giving my two cents.

If you have PCO and overweight I really recommend the low glychemic diet. A fertility doctor where I am from wrote abook about this diet and of all his patients who get pregnant more than half never needed even hormonal stimulation. They just got pregnant with the diet. I have tried it my self shortly and although I don’t even have PCO my hormones really improved within 1-3 weeks.

As for having problems keeping a pregnancy I just recently read the most interesting book. It was by Dr. Alan E Beer: Is your body baby friendly. His population of patients was also usually the tough cases who had had many failed IVF and miscarriages etc and his succes rates were amazing. He specialised in immunologic causes for infertility/miscarriage. If you can’t hold on to a pregnancy I’d really recommend the book. His succes rate was 85% so he must have been doing something right

Best wishes to all of you
Amber

Thanks for the info - it couldn’t hurt - I’m currently loosing some more weight - and my doctor told me to stop drinking things like regular milk and go for the hormone free (added hormones that is) milk - and other things like that - I know this is no one but me mainly but my kidneys have trouble working for both of us when I get pregnant - we’re hoping I can get healthy enough to where the doctors say “o.k. lets give it another try” (not even sure which official try it would be)
God Bless
Rye

 

[Amber2]

Dear Rye
The low glychemic diet is awesome for losing weight because it even helps you stop craving sugars because it stabilises your blood sugar etc. I lost weight so fast on that diet which was a problem for me as I am underweight so that is a reason why I could not stay on it.
I wish you all the best with getting well
Amber

 

[onthisrock]

HI there guys

you know after dealing with infertility for some years I guess we all have gathered a bit of knowledge about the topic. I just can’t help giving my two cents.

If you have PCO and overweight I really recommend the low glychemic diet. A fertility doctor where I am from wrote abook about this diet and of all his patients who get pregnant more than half never needed even hormonal stimulation. They just got pregnant with the diet. I have tried it my self shortly and although I don’t even have PCO my hormones really improved within 1-3 weeks.

As for having problems keeping a pregnancy I just recently read the most interesting book. It was by Dr. Alan E Beer: Is your body baby friendly. His population of patients was also usually the tough cases who had had many failed IVF and miscarriages etc and his success rates were amazing. He specialized in immunologic causes for infertility/miscarriage. If you can’t hold on to a pregnancy I’d really recommend the book. His success rate was 85% so he must have been doing something right

Best wishes to all of you
Amber

you are right about low glycemic index food helping with insulin resistance…which happens about 100% of the time with PCOS. I have so many other issues, but I have been able to reach one weight loss goal, I’ve lost 10 pounds since I was last on this thread with everyone. I am reading “The Fertility diet” it was based on a research done on ONLY nurses as they believed that nurses would understand the medical ease and would be more interested in following up for the sake of science. As a nurse…this is probably true. It’s a pretty helpful book that you don’t really need to read front to back, but could if you wanted to. Even has some tips for men, to increase health and motility of sperm. I personally also have an autoimmune disease called Sjogrens, take a medication for depression that is a mega weight gainer…in fact I asked my doctor out of all of his patients on this med…is there a single thin person…he said NO! I also have a low thyroid, so being that my weight "hold on’ (rather than gain at this point) is truly metabolism…I am focusing pretty much exclusively on exercise of any and all kids. Even fidgeting while sitting helps! Crazy but true. Low glycemic is so awesome though…you have more energy and are more likely to eat whole, raw foods. I’m someone who would rather have NO sugar rather than the chemicals of Equal etc. I eat butter rather than margarine as it is chemically treated. I also try to find unpasteurized juices as pasteurization kills the good stuff too (My husband actually juices from fruit trees since I live in CA they are always in season) Thank so much Amber for bringing this very successful diet to the attention of people with PCOS as the cysts produce insulin, and low glycemic avoids your body from producing even more than what it already is

 

[onthisrock]

Oh! Don’t give up - I’m in my 30’s and have kidney disease - we have problems keeping a pregnancy going - so not so much infertility as getting pregnant then not making it past 3 months. But I do know multiple women who either began at 41 (she has 2 kids and not such an odd story) - also my best friend is almost 40 and just had an unplanned pregnancy. So please don’t count yourself out (unless you feel that’s what’s best for you!)-
Please pray for me - I’ll pray for you!
God Bless
Rye

Thanks Rye…I’m not giving up. I just got back from St. Philomena’s shrine in Mugnano del Cardinale Italy…what a trip…definitely NOT a vacation by any stretch of the imagination…it is REALLY out there! If you’ve been to Italy, it is probably the opposite of Rome. I was able to lay my “dream box” that I bought on my first birthday married to my husband when we went to Yosemite Nat. Park. I used it as a pill case, but usually from the day I bought it, had it next to my bed. It had my name “Kathleen” and had a design on it, and said Yosemite on it…on the back it had the meaning of my name…“Gaelic for pure of heart” My husband speaks fluent Spanish and a lot of Italian, so was able to tell the curator of the shrine what I had with me, and could I put my dream box in the shrine somewhere…He was also able to tell him I had been “barren” and no doctor has helped. He opened up the iron gate to her actual shrine and let me go on her Alter and put it inches under her! I was crying like a baby after this experience. I left in absolutely no pain, as I have severe pain issues…It was just an unbelievable experience to go from LA to this tiny little town in Italy and go to see “the wonder worker” as a convert I was never much into saints, but a convert from the Jewish faith whom I met who had infertility gave me her book, and yelled at me, to contact Dr. Hilgers. I thought she was a little rough, but I listened to her and about a quarter way through the book told my husband where we were going to be going after we got our taxes back (no argument from him at all…I believe she was touching him through me)
Anyway…my surgery is June 27th in Omaha, so I will definitely keep praying for the woman her, please keep me in your prayers (who know, maybe my trip to the shrine will bare fruit before the surgery date…but I won’t be angry if it doesn’t happen in MY time) Take care, and God Bless!!
Kathleen

 

[forhim_123]

Thanks Rye…I’m not giving up. I just got back from St. Philomena’s shrine in Mugnano del Cardinale Italy…what a trip…definitely NOT a vacation by any stretch of the imagination…it is REALLY out there! If you’ve been to Italy, it is probably the opposite of Rome. I was able to lay my “dream box” that I bought on my first birthday married to my husband when we went to Yosemite Nat. Park. I used it as a pill case, but usually from the day I bought it, had it next to my bed. It had my name “Kathleen” and had a design on it, and said Yosemite on it…on the back it had the meaning of my name…“Gaelic for pure of heart” My husband speaks fluent Spanish and a lot of Italian, so was able to tell the curator of the shrine what I had with me, and could I put my dream box in the shrine somewhere…He was also able to tell him I had been “barren” and no doctor has helped. He opened up the iron gate to her actual shrine and let me go on her Alter and put it inches under her! I was crying like a baby after this experience. I left in absolutely no pain, as I have severe pain issues…It was just an unbelievable experience to go from LA to this tiny little town in Italy and go to see “the wonder worker” as a convert I was never much into saints, but a convert from the Jewish faith whom I met who had infertility gave me her book, and yelled at me, to contact Dr. Hilgers. I thought she was a little rough, but I listened to her and about a quarter way through the book told my husband where we were going to be going after we got our taxes back (no argument from him at all…I believe she was touching him through me)
Anyway…my surgery is June 27th in Omaha, so I will definitely keep praying for the woman her, please keep me in your prayers (who know, maybe my trip to the shrine will bare fruit before the surgery date…but I won’t be angry if it doesn’t happen in MY time) Take care, and God Bless!!
Kathleen

:egyptian:

Thank you for sharing your beautiful journey!!

 

[onthisrock]

DH and I are facing severe male factor IF. NaPro is not an option for us, since we do not have sperm to work with (confirmed by TESE biopsy) We tried to adopt domestically, internationally, and via foster care for nearly 4 years. We were foster parents for 10 months to a little girl who in the end was suddenly returned to her mom, who no longer has her now. We inquired on 30-50 waiting older kids whose social workers never thought we were a good match. Four birth mothers changed their minds before having their babies. We withdrew from our international adoption in December, just before sending in our dossier. We had lost the funding we had, and couldn’t proceed with the $30K we’d still need to pay the agency fees and travel expenses.

While I know this topic is controversial, I hope I can find enough open mindedness on here to recognize the discernment that has gone into DH’s and my conviction to pursue embryo adoption. It is our understanding that the Catholic church does not have an official stance against or for it, as confirmed by several priests. Therefore, we are trying to give already frozen embryos a chance at life when their genetic parents cannot or will not. We adopted 4 embryos from a couple unable to undergo another pregnancy after their twins. It’s an open arrangement. We had a chemical pregnancy (very early miscarriage, at 5 weeks) with the first two. We are hoping to go back for our other two soon.

We are currently not eligible to adopt due to a horrible slander situation that has resulted in a negative record with CPS. We have appealed it and are awaiting results to see if the finding will be reversed. We have discussed adopting an older child if we become eligible again and if our little Pixie Stix (embryos) don’t stick.

We are in the beginning stages of starting a support group ministry at our church for infertile childless couples. It’s only been a week or so since we spoke with our priest and the outreach director that he referred us to. They are supposed to talk and get back to us about advertising in the bulletin.

So that’s where we are on the journey, but I’d really like to be able to participate in a proper IF group where there is possibility for multiple threads. Anyone can help me out with that?

I’m so sorry that you are going through infertility. Whether it is the man or the woman…it is very frustrating. The Church does have an opinion on IVF, and I’m sorry you have had several priests not know Church teachings… the issue isn’t that the embryo has been deserted as it was, but that you can not separate the unitive and procreative nature of marital love. It may sound good to take an abandoned embryo, but the reality is that only 29% of IVF procedures end in a live birth. I got this off of the article supplied by Catholic Answers called “Babies Deserve Better” I know that CPS people are very quick to act on a false claim, and very slow to reverse their own mistake. You have had so many set backs, and I really feel horrible…I too have had many setbacks. I am finally at the point where I feel that if I have prayed as much as possible, made a pilgrimage, and am having the best doctor treat me, that I am slowly getting to an acceptance phase.It maybe, despite what I want, God wants something different from My husband and myself that we couldn’t do with children. We don’t know what that is yet, but when you’ve tried everything, and you start considering things that are against your faith…you either hold stronger to God or give in. . I am NOT flippantly writing this. I have had endless nights of tears, and anger at God, before coming to the point that God can make miracles happen without a single bit of help from us. It only takes one healthy sperm to make a baby and God can make that happen.Iif you were successful with one foster child, you may have a special gift with that population. I don’t want to suggest things you have already thought of. I hate when people tell me “just adopt” like there is a baby store where people who seem nice can just go…or if you have enough money, you can buy a baby without going through the legal process. It is such an insensitive thing to say as who has not wanted to adopt who can not have their own?? $20-$40,000 is the going rate for a newborn. I heard someone say…well if you don’t have that much money, you could never raise a child! It wasn’t to me, but I thought, how stupid is that? If you have your own child and nurse and use cloth diaper, and don’t shop name brands, $40,000 would last a long time. I have a friend with 7 kids and her and her husband don’t make that in a year and her kids are so well adjusted and smart. No one is owed a child no matter how good our intentions to want one, God is truly the decider of life. I hope your support group takes off, as I have yet to find a parish in any diocese that has one. There are tons of “mother’s groups”,and “family nights” that are only friendly to families with children. It is a very lonely process. I will definitely put you in our evening prayer intentions. If you choose to go on with IVF of the adopted embryos I pray that you and the baby are healthy, as my intention to respond to you about Church teaching is not me saying I want bad things to happen to people who have been as desperate as me for children. we have all felt it on this thread.

 

[ryecroft]

Actually, I need some advice with regards to my husband (whom I love - well with a love I never thought I’d have beyond my parents or siblings)- anyway - we have had multiple miscarriages and yes (please don’t be too shocked)- I am one of those few who they say don’t really exist on here - I was one of those who was pregnant and kept the pregnancy as long as I could while getting more and more ill (kidney disease with blood loss as well as ovarian cysts and tumors mostly fibroid)- anyway we made a decision prior to getting married that if it was a choice between the baby or my life - there was no question - my husband didn’t want to loose me - which I do understand - I don’t want to be lost - but prior to viability I had lost so much blood and my kidneys were having trouble keeping up- this was a situation where I could continue the pregnancy and not make it (nor would the pregnancy come to fruition) or we could give me a chance to live and terminate and hopefully try again. (by the way this was not a planned pregnancy - but I won’t go into that now)-(also please don’t send me PM’s telling me I’m going to Hell - or something similar-I really don’t get anything from that-I don’t think anyone does)-so we had this one as well as multiple miscarriages - some were ones that I found out about that were under 3 months while my husband was out to sea (was Navy)-
So now, I’ve got doctors watching to tell me the best time to try again - and I am in my 30’s (mid) so I’d like to try again ASAP but only with medical approval - so here’s the question - I know my husband is gun shy - I am too - we really don’t talk about trying again - he just knows that I’ll be telling him when the doctors say ‘you guys can try again’ - we both used to fantasize about having 4 kids - we’re God Parents to 8 kids and of course Aunts and Uncles -what can I do to help my husband not be so gun shy and maybe even talk about this (we did do some counseling but it really didn’t help much)- I miss talking to him about our kids - he’s so great with them too - you should see him with our nephews and nieces - God Children - they love him to pieces - I’m scared as well - who wouldn’t be - I just don’t know how to help - keep my mouth shut and just wait until it’s time to try again? I don’t want to hurt him by saying the wrong things - I hope this was an o.k. place to put this - I did try something similar on one of the other boards and felt like I was I was being ripped to shreads - any guys that have advice please let me know as well, please. Sorry if this is kind of weird-
God Bless
Rye

 

[forhim_123]

Ryecroft,

I don’t have any advice for you, but I will pray for you.

:hug3:

 

[onthisrock]

Actually, I need some advice with regards to my husband (whom I love - well with a love I never thought I’d have beyond my parents or siblings)- anyway - we have had multiple miscarriages and yes (please don’t be too shocked)- I am one of those few who they say don’t really exist on here - I was one of those who was pregnant and kept the pregnancy as long as I could while getting more and more ill (kidney disease with blood loss as well as ovarian cysts and tumors mostly fibroid)- anyway we made a decision prior to getting married that if it was a choice between the baby or my life - there was no question - my husband didn’t want to loose me - which I do understand - I don’t want to be lost - but prior to viability I had lost so much blood and my kidneys were having trouble keeping up- this was a situation where I could continue the pregnancy and not make it (nor would the pregnancy come to fruition) or we could give me a chance to live and terminate and hopefully try again. (by the way this was not a planned pregnancy - but I won’t go into that now)-(also please don’t send me PM’s telling me I’m going to Hell - or something similar-I really don’t get anything from that-I don’t think anyone does)-so we had this one as well as multiple miscarriages - some were ones that I found out about that were under 3 months while my husband was out to sea (was Navy)-
So now, I’ve got doctors watching to tell me the best time to try again - and I am in my 30’s (mid) so I’d like to try again ASAP but only with medical approval - so here’s the question - I know my husband is gun shy - I am too - we really don’t talk about trying again - he just knows that I’ll be telling him when the doctors say ‘you guys can try again’ - we both used to fantasize about having 4 kids - we’re God Parents to 8 kids and of course Aunts and Uncles -what can I do to help my husband not be so gun shy and maybe even talk about this (we did do some counseling but it really didn’t help much)- I miss talking to him about our kids - he’s so great with them too - you should see him with our nephews and nieces - God Children - they love him to pieces - I’m scared as well - who wouldn’t be - I just don’t know how to help - keep my mouth shut and just wait until it’s time to try again? I don’t want to hurt him by saying the wrong things - I hope this was an o.k. place to put this - I did try something similar on one of the other boards and felt like I was I was being ripped to shreads - any guys that have advice please let me know as well, please. Sorry if this is kind of weird-
God Bless
Rye

Hi Rye…I just sent you a PM

 

[sacredcello]

Thanks Rye…I’m not giving up. I just got back from St. Philomena’s shrine in Mugnano del Cardinale Italy…what a trip…definitely NOT a vacation by any stretch of the imagination…it is REALLY out there! If you’ve been to Italy, it is probably the opposite of Rome. I was able to lay my “dream box” that I bought on my first birthday married to my husband when we went to Yosemite Nat. Park. I used it as a pill case, but usually from the day I bought it, had it next to my bed. It had my name “Kathleen” and had a design on it, and said Yosemite on it…on the back it had the meaning of my name…“Gaelic for pure of heart” My husband speaks fluent Spanish and a lot of Italian, so was able to tell the curator of the shrine what I had with me, and could I put my dream box in the shrine somewhere…He was also able to tell him I had been “barren” and no doctor has helped. He opened up the iron gate to her actual shrine and let me go on her Alter and put it inches under her! I was crying like a baby after this experience. I left in absolutely no pain, as I have severe pain issues…It was just an unbelievable experience to go from LA to this tiny little town in Italy and go to see “the wonder worker” as a convert I was never much into saints, but a convert from the Jewish faith whom I met who had infertility gave me her book, and yelled at me, to contact Dr. Hilgers. I thought she was a little rough, but I listened to her and about a quarter way through the book told my husband where we were going to be going after we got our taxes back (no argument from him at all…I believe she was touching him through me)
Anyway…my surgery is June 27th in Omaha, so I will definitely keep praying for the woman her, please keep me in your prayers (who know, maybe my trip to the shrine will bare fruit before the surgery date…but I won’t be angry if it doesn’t happen in MY time) Take care, and God Bless!!
Kathleen

Dear Kathleen,

What a wonderful pilgrimage! I am so glad that you went to St. Philomena’s shrine and were able to put your dream box near her altar. St. Philomena is such a dear saint. And, also strong. Can you imagine what she went up against with the executioners who tried several times to kill her? I try to say her chaplet every day.

Congratulations, also, on losing 10 lbs! That’s awesome. I’m sorry about the anti-depressant. I was on one for about 6 months some 12 years ago. I gained a little weight, but since I had no appetite, it was only a few pounds. Most of all, I disliked the lethargy that was a side effect. I knew I had to get off it immediately, but I didn’t want the suicidal thoughts coming back. So, what I did was taper it off very gradually. I cut the pills in quarters. I took 3/4 of a pill for a few weeks, then 1/2 a pill, then 1/4 and finally I didn’t miss it and was able to get on just fine without it. That was many years ago; long before I met my husband and began dealing with infertility. Now, I still get depressed - sometimes it hurts to breathe. But, it is manageable. There is no way that I will go back on those meds. This is not medical advice, just sharing my experience.

Good job explaining about embryo adoption. You said it very well. Children have the right to be conceived by a natural act of love between their parents. Here is a video which explains Church teaching in more depth.

As one who has been dealing with IF for more than 2 years (not long, I know), I have had the occasion to visit secular websites such as The Bump in hopes of discussing it with other ladies. That was a big mistake. The assumption is that every couple has a RIGHT to a child, regardless of the means. IVF is considered legitimate medical treatment, even by many people who call themselves Catholic. When I pointed to the place in the Catechism where it says otherwise, there were numerous Catholics who lined up to say that their …“grandmother goes to church every day and she has no problem with it” or linking some article that shows how the Church is out of touch. I have learned the hard way to stay away from these sites. They are poison.

Anyway, Kathleen, I am so glad that you have scheduled your surgery with Dr. Hilgers. I will keep you in my prayers. I, too, am a convert to the Catholic faith, from the Episcopal church. For myself, I am looking on some of this personal suffering as penance for my previous sinful lifestyle. I was raised to believe that contraception is good and, sadly, it took many years after my conversion to the Catholic faith, and one failed marriage, to realize that God wants us to lead a holy life and contraception has no part in that. The annulment process taught me this painful lesson as well. I’m not saying that God is punishing me with infertility because of my sins. But, there is the very hard reality that I am now 41 years old and it took me this long to see God’s plan for families. Yes, God can work miracles, but my age is a factor.

Last night, my husband and I consecrated our family to the Holy Family and made the enthronement of Sacred Scripture and hung a picture of the Holy Family on our wall. Here is the website, if anyone is interested.

Prayers for all.

 

[anilorak13ska]

onthisrock - I’m sorry I’m still learning to operate in the forums, so I need to respond to one thing at a time. Let me start with your response to my thread. Thank you for your sensitivity in sharing your view. Most people who consider embryo adoption amoral share this view in a very holier-than-thou attitude, which you did not, so thank you! But I must point out that IVF is NOT what we are doing. IVF is in vitro fertilization - we are not fertilizing eggs with sperm. The donor couple already did that. That is on them that they created embryos outside of the marital bed. We are simply transferring them into the proper environment (a womb) where they can actually have a chance to continue to grow and be born and have a chance at life. We are not creating them. They are already here, waiting.

Furthermore, regarding the unitive and procreative purpose of the marital embrace, the same can be applied to traditional adoption - those children are likewise not the result of their adoptive parents’ sacramental bed. Yet they are nonetheless taken in when their original parents could not or would not do what it took to keep them. This is the same thing that is going on with our embryos. The only difference is that they cannot come straight home to our home - they must first go through my womb. If we as Catholics, as Christians, say we are Pro-Life and that life begins at conception, then we cannot simply shrug at the fate of those tiny humans cryopreserved and awaiting a family. If it is not strange and amoral to take in an orphaned child and call him or her our own, give them our name, let them live in our home, then offering my womb as one of the requirements that these particular children need first is no different. Of course, it is easy to mistake what we’re doing with IVF or with donor insemination, but it is a huge difference in that IVF and donor insemination take a situation where there is no human being, and they purposefully create one that would have to be born in possibly less-than stellar circumstances. In embryo adoption, we are stepping in once someone else has already done this. We are not causing the situation any more than adoptive parents cause a child to be conceived in rape and then placed for adoption. By adopting that child, are people encouraging rape? No! The children are the most important thing in that situation, and the bottom line is that they need a family.

As for the fact that fertility treatments (not just IVF) are not terribly successful, I think that is all the more reason to encourage embryo adoption, bc many people will opt to go with IVF or donor insemination instead if these procedures are cheaper or more successful than risking it all on adopted embryos. Our first two embryos only needed us for about 2 weeks. But it was enough for them to have implanted in my womb and then join Our Heavenly Father. They couldn’t have gone on to heaven had we not adopted and transferred them. Knowing full well that their siblings may very well likewise not stay with us long enough to parent them, nonetheless we feel called to release them to heaven.

I may have been desperate in the past, but embryo adoption is not a sign of desperation by any means. In our situation, desperation would be pressuring DH to have the invasive microTESE surgery in the hopes of finding an elusive sperm or two, and then doing ICSI/IVF in the hopes of conceiving a bio child. We are not doing this. We have made our peace with not having a biological child. We are adopting. We have adopted. We just lost our first two and the other two we are still praying for.

It’s such a shame that there is so much heated misunderstanding over embryo adoption among believers. It is hurtful to those of us who have discerned that God is calling us to rescue these His children, conceived illicitly yet nonetheless precious in His eyes and in need of a loving family - which for them starts with a willing womb.

 

[anilorak13ska]

I also wanted to add that I find it curious how easily people dismiss priests, who have undergone far more theological and moral training than the regular lay person, based simply on one’s own interpretation of the Bible, the Catechism, or papal enciclicles. If I can’t trust several ordained priests to present to me a valid Catholic viewpoint, who can I trust? Certainly not a consensus taken online of mostly lay people. I have personal discernment with God, I have His Word the Bible to test my discernment against, and I have the Catechism and ordained priests to clarify any interpretations I’m unclear on. My conscience is perfectly clear before God and Rome, although the latter means nothing in comparison to God Almighty.

I add this not directed at anyone in particular, btw. I just noticed my having referenced multiple priests as being dismissed on these threads several times, in several threads, which really makes me worry about our lack of submission to the authority of those ordained to lead us.

 

[anilorak13ska]

Ryecrof - First, let me assure you that I know what you mean about being attacked on what is supposed to be a Christ-centered forum. This is my umteenth time trying to reach out for emotional support on C.com bc in the past, it seemed everywhere I opened my mouth, I was being dismissed as a sinner, as if the people making those accusations were not.

Anyway, I also wanted to tell you that my heart goes out to you for your losses. It doesn’t matter what circumstances led to the loss, the pain is the same I’m sure. I commend you for doing everything you could when you could. It’s really unfair for anyone who hasn’t been in your situation (frankly, I think even those who have, bc every individual is different, and God knows that) to presume to tell you what you should’ve done or what they would’ve done. It’s very easy to talk about it, much harder to live it, and this applies to everything.

As for your concern regarding getting your hubby to open up… I cannot encourage you enough to go on a Worldwide Marriage Encounter weekend with your hubby. This is an absolutely amazing ministry for couples, by couples, that DH and I were privileged to get to know last year when we became encountered for our anniversary. The weekend is all about open and honest communication with the goal of growing and improving your relationship, no matter where you stand now. DH and I were fine. We had no marital problems. Life was honky-dorry, other than the IF-induced waiting for a child. But after our weekend, life has changed exponentially.

One question we were asked to dialogue about with each other (it’s all very private) was faith. I had wanted to share my faith with hubs, but he preferred to keep things to himself. Once we discussed how much I wanted him to be a part of that area of my life, life hasn’t been the same. He has openly acknowledged being a follower of Christ (previously, he had gone through the motions of RCIA and weekly Mass attendance). He leads us in grace, including when we go out, and he does so from the heart. He built us a chapel area where we now have regular quiet time with the Lord. He’s started listening to Christian radio stations on his long commute. He’s jumped at every chance to join yet another small group or forming ministry that is church-related.

From my end, I have finally accepted marital submission to my husband (something I always rejected and refused), bc I see that he is leading me to the Lord. I come from a very feminist background, I should add. I have begun to come out of my shell and started to be more outgoing once I realized that I was no longer expected to be in control, and also that not only was the Lord leading me, but He also gave me my hubby to be with me as a buffer if I needed one. I speak out at meetings, I engage in small talk with strangers, I attempt to make new friends… these are big steps for me!

I tell you this only to illustrate what a HUGE difference the WWME weekend had on us and our marriage, and it was all bc we agreed to be open with each other about our feelings. So I would be absolutely shocked if you did not likewise see a big difference - in the right direction - with your hubs after your weekend.

WWME is a Catholic couples ministry, fully in line with the RCC. It normally includes three married couples and a priest as the presenters. So my advice on helping you and DH be open with each other about what you’re going through, what you’ve already gone through, and how you can best support each other is to invest in your marriage by going to a WWME weekend. It is not counseling, btw. Not even a little bit. It’s all about leading and teaching the couples to communicate with each other.

Highly recommend it. Can’t stop raving about it. At least look into it. www.wwme.org
God bless!

 

[sacredcello]

It’s such a shame that there is so much heated misunderstanding over embryo adoption among believers. It is hurtful to those of us who have discerned that God is calling us to rescue these His children, conceived illicitly yet nonetheless precious in His eyes and in need of a loving family - which for them starts with a willing womb.

Anilorak13ska,

My heart goes out to you, as one who also knows the pain of IF. It is a difficult road, and you know this better than I do for having lived with it for longer and tried valiantly to bring a child into your family.

There is some disagreement among Catholic theologians about Dignitas Personae, however I wouldn’t describe the discussion here as heated.

If people in other threads have been uncharitable to those seeking answers, it is partly the nature of internet discussions that allows people to say something and press “send” without thinking about it.

People come to CAF for different reasons. Some seek to learn the Catholic faith better, some seek to attack Catholics for their beliefs, and lots of other reasons.

Personally, I look to CAF to hear other people’s stories, to share my own and also to help others along.

God bless.

 

[onthisrock]

****Furthermore, regarding the unitive and procreative purpose of the marital embrace, the same can be applied to traditional adoption - those children are likewise not the result of their adoptive parents’ sacramental bed. Yet they are nonetheless taken in when their original parents could not or would not do what it took to keep them. This is the same thing that is going on with our embryos. The only difference is that they cannot come straight home to our home - they must first go through my womb. If we as Catholics, as Christians, say we are Pro-Life and that life begins at conception, then we cannot simply shrug at the fate of those tiny humans cryopreserved and awaiting a family. If it is not strange and amoral to take in an orphaned child and call him or her our own, give them our name, let them live in our home, then offering my womb as one of the requirements that these particular children need first is no different. In embryo adoption, we are stepping in once someone else has already done this. We are not causing the situation any more than adoptive parents cause a child to be conceived in rape and then placed for adoption. By adopting that child, are people encouraging rape? No! The children are the most important thing in that situation, and the bottom line is that they need a family.

They couldn’t have gone on to heaven had we not adopted and transferred them. Knowing full well that their siblings may very well likewise not stay with us long enough to parent them, nonetheless we feel called to release them to heaven.

I may have been desperate in the past, but embryo adoption is not a sign of desperation by any means. In our situation, desperation would be pressuring DH to have the invasive microTESE surgery in the hopes of finding an elusive sperm or two, and then doing ICSI/IVF in the hopes of conceiving a bio child. We are not doing this. We have made our peace with not having a biological child. We are adopting. We have adopted. We just lost our first two and the other two we are still praying for.

It’s such a shame that there is so much heated misunderstanding over embryo adoption among believers. It is hurtful to those of us who have discerned that God is calling us to rescue these His children, conceived illicitly yet nonetheless precious in His eyes and in need of a loving family - which for them starts with a willing womb.

We can discern things that God is not telling us…It is our own idea, and then attach God to it as if he gave us the idea…this is why priests and nuns are novices in the beginning to see if it was God, or a situation that occurred to make them think it was. What I know of the program (the snowflake program) is it is from multi fetal reduction, or first trimester abortions from the original bio parents… i used the term IVF incorrectly you are right…you are using artificial implantation technically. the difference between adoption and what you are pursuing is you are supporting, financially and socially to the business of Artificial reproductive services. (It took 500 babies to die for the first test tube baby) Adoption supports the pro life cause. with the snowflake program you need to pay adoption fees have a livescan and cps check along with health check, so not sure exactly what you are doing. The fact is not separating procreation and unification in your marriage. Of course menopausal and infertile people are having relations, but God was the decider, not the couple. Adoption is the natural birth of a child from a mother and father…naturally…sometimes even a married couple will put their child up for adoption) I know you truly believe you are being called to have children, as everyone here is, so I’m not going to press it any further than that. If you do care what the Church teaches, maybe you could make an appointment with someone at your diocese…maybe an associate bishop or a center for life dept. I don’t think bad about you. You said you weren’t desperate, yet you are doing something to contribute to the ART cause which is part of the contraceptive cause (that we control our fertility, not God). you also have had 4 birth mothers back out. I don’t know anyone who has had one birth mother back out (including girls in high school who put their baby’s up for adoption) let alone 4. You said your husband has 0 sperm, you lost your adoption money, all the while having this cps case looming over you. It sounds like this embryo adoption, which if not on the legal up and up can turn into someone else’s child (it’s birth parents whose DNA it has)…so I hope that’s all covered with a lawyer. I know what it feels like to NEED a baby, but we are not OWED a baby. Having babies are a good thing, but so are things like donating all of our time to the poor… we just can’t all do it. I tried to PM this, but it wouldn’t allow me, so here it is on the main thread, and I am sorry about that. I hope that the babies are viable, and the best of luck to you. However a child is born they are always a blessing. I just say if you’re not worried about what you’re doing, run it by someone higher up and just make sure…unless you have gotten to the point that you are determined no matter what you found out. The point isn’t that I don’t want you to be happy with a baby, but care about your soul, and what you may regret one day, by not simply asking someone other than a parish priest (before i originally wrote you I discussed your situation with my spiritual directer a “higher up” in the Baltimore archdiocese, and he said absolutely not OK, and gave the reasons I gave you. I am trying as hard as possible to be empathetic. it’s not unsolicited, as you were the one to post on a Catholic forum. I pray blessings on you and your family.