Infidel

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Namesake

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If you want a good read about how an intelligent person becomes an atheist read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book ‘Infidel’. She was raised a Muslim and in the book she details her journey.
 
Namesake said:
If you want a good read about how an intelligent person becomes an atheist read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book ‘Infidel’. She was raised a Muslim and in the book she details her journey.
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Read it. Horrible! Poor woman, nobody should have to go through what she went through.

RAR
 
RAR said:
Read it. Horrible! Poor woman, nobody should have to go through what she went through.

RAR
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Lots of women are going through the same thing right now. I agree with her that Islam must be totally destroyed. Check out some of her interviews.
 
She did not suffer because of Islam. What happened to her is horrible–but is not a result of Islam, and does not make Islam horrible.
 
Namesake said:
I disagree with you. Have you read the book?
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No, but I’ve heard her story, and I am familiar with Islam. If a woman has been tortured, oppressed, or mutilated in anyway, I can guarantee you that it’s not because of Islam, but in spite of Islam.
 
I don’t follow her logic… Islam is bad, therefore atheism must be good? That implies that subconsciously you still hold Islam to be the only true religion.

Haven’t read the book, and not intending to debate. Just making an observation.
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
I don’t follow her logic… Islam is bad, therefore atheism must be good? That implies that subconsciously you still hold Islam to be the only true religion.

Haven’t read the book, and not intending to debate. Just making an observation.
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That is indeed a very interesting observation!! 🙂 Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
I don’t follow her logic… Islam is bad, therefore atheism must be good? That implies that subconsciously you still hold Islam to be the only true religion.

Haven’t read the book, and not intending to debate. Just making an observation.
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If you go to some anti-Islamic sites many are run by apostates and many are atheist. Its something about Islam that turns them from God altogether. I think it is very interesting!
 
Sister_Amy said:
No, but I’ve heard her story, and I am familiar with Islam. If a woman has been tortured, oppressed, or mutilated in anyway, I can guarantee you that it’s not because of Islam, but in spite of Islam.
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Thats easy to say when you are comfortable and safe in your university and a new convert in America.
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
I don’t follow her logic… Islam is bad, therefore atheism must be good? That implies that subconsciously you still hold Islam to be the only true religion.

Haven’t read the book, and not intending to debate. Just making an observation.
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That wasn’t her logic at all. She lost faith in the Islamic version of God and that led her to question all religion. She observed that a secular society (Holland) was so much better for all the people than any Islamic country and she concluded that religion wasn’t necessary for people to live in peace and prosperity. It’s very logical.
 
Sister_Amy said:
No, but I’ve heard her story, and I am familiar with Islam. If a woman has been tortured, oppressed, or mutilated in anyway, I can guarantee you that it’s not because of Islam, but in spite of Islam.
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That is patently untrue. Islam oppresses women and allows violence against women and violence against anyone who is an apostate. Theo Van Gogh was murdered because of the video (Submission) he and Hirsi Ali produced. She still lives under extraordinary protection because she is under fatwa because of her outspokenness.

If you haven’t read the book you are probably not quite up to speed on the issue. It would be unlikely that the book would change your mind, but it would probably anger you because she is quite clear about what Islam is. Things like the Prophet Muhammad being a pervert and child molester for having sex with a nine year old girl.

No where in western civilization would such a monster be tolerated but Muslims worship the guy. That fact alone tells all anyone should need to know to reject what that pedophile wrote.
 
Thanks for showing me that the book is just as trashy as I suspected it was.

You won’t find any Muslim traditions calling Muhammad either a pervert or a child molester. Aisha was one of the greatest women who ever lived, EVER, and she dearly loved Muhammad, didn’t remarry after his death. Children who are molested don’t grow up feeling that way. She was a strong, intelligent, articulate woman who led an army and is the source of an immense amount of Islamic knowledge today. She had memorized thousands of lines of Arabic poetry. Seriously, one of the greatest women who ever lived.

And if you think that Muslims worship Muhammad, then you, clearly, do not understand anything at all about Islam. If Muslims did worship Muhammad, they would be punished in the deepest level of hell, and I’m not exaggerating.
 
Namesake said:
I realize that. By western standards he was a pervert because he married a six year old child and had sex with her when she was nine years old. No western culture would ever condone that behavior. He would be sent to prison and likely killed there. No society that has advanced out of the dark ages has ever accepted such perverse behavior. Islam was the brainchild of a pervert and child molester.
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You did it again, slandering my prophet. Muslim scholars agree that when Muhammad had intercourse with Aisha (she has a name), she was no longer a child. No longer a child. Muhammad was not a pervert, nor a child molester.
OK, maybe not worship. How about follow precisely what he wrote? That is what the video Submission is all about. That is what Hirsi Ali claims Islam is all about. A perverse religion that holds women back from their rightful place as equal to men. It’s a religion that holds countries back from joining the enlightened world, like Holland.
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I have rights in Islam that I can’t even get in the USA, so I really don’t think Islam is holding women back. I don’t know your personal religion beliefs, so forgive me if I seem like I’m talking down to you here, but the basic argument of Islam is this:

(1) God created mankind.
(2) God knows what’s best for mankind.
(3) Mankind should obey God.
Just what have Islamic countries done to advance science or freedom or individual human rights? I think the answer is that Islam destroys human dignity and prevents people from using their God given talents and autonomy and thereby Islam is a destructive influence in the world. I know enough about Islam to understand that, maybe you should seek more understanding and read the book.
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Cordoba.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You did it again, slandering my prophet. Muslim scholars agree that when Muhammad had intercourse with Aisha (she has a name), she was no longer a child. No longer a child. Muhammad was not a pervert, nor a child molester.
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Anyone who has sex with a nine year old is a rapist in every advanced civilization in the world. It isn’t slander at all. At nine years old she was still a child and you should be ashamed of your prophet for being such a criminal rapist, a felon where I live.
I have rights in Islam that I can’t even get in the USA, so I really don’t think Islam is holding women back.
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That is simply not true.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I have rights in Islam that I can’t even get in the USA, so I really don’t think Islam is holding women back. I don’t know your personal religion beliefs, so forgive me if I seem like I’m talking down to you here, but the basic argument of Islam is this:

(.
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PLEASE tell us what rights Islam gives you that the U.S. does not.
 
Namesake said:
Anyone who has sex with a nine year old is a rapist in every advanced civilization in the world. It isn’t slander at all. At nine years old she was still a child and you should be ashamed of your prophet for being such a criminal rapist, a felon where I live.
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You realize don’t you that Muslim SCHOLARS don’t even agree that she was 9? Especially 9 at consummation. Like I said, they do agree on the FACT that she was NO LONGER A CHILD when she entered the Prophet’s house. 🙂

He is neither a criminal, nor a rapist, nor a felon, and I don’t appreciate your slander. Aisha as I said before is one of the greatest women to ever live. Neither raped nor molested. It’s okay… give it up.
That is simply not true.
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Of course it is. I’ll answer below since Zuzu asked me politely. 🙂
 
Namesake said:
Anyone who has sex with a nine year old is a rapist in every advanced civilization in the world. It isn’t slander at all. At nine years old she was still a child and you should be ashamed of your prophet for being such a criminal rapist, a felon where I live.

That is simply not true.
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This was a common practice among Europe also; so it didnt start with Muhammad. It is unfair to bring this up as most of Europe was doing it at the time.

Before one could argue this it may be wise to look into the prophets before Jesus and see if any of them had done this practice( I doubt it.).
 
ZuzuBailey said:
PLEASE tell us what rights Islam gives you that the U.S. does not.
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To start with, I have the right to be provided for (100%, plus my children!) financially by my husband. I don’t have to work, but he has to support me.

Another thing, Islamically I am guaranteed inheritance from my relatives. According to US Law, they could divide up their inheritance any way they wished and totally exclude me (for whatever reason) but according to Islam, there is a portion of inheritance guaranteed to me.

Also, in the case of a divorce, my husband still has to continue providing for my children financially, 100%.

Just off the top of my head. 🙂
 
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