Infidel

[Namesake]

This was a common practice among Europe also; so it didnt start with Muhammad. It is unfair to bring this up as most of Europe was doing it at the time.

Before one could argue this it may be wise to look into the prophets before Jesus and see if any of them had done this practice( I doubt it.).

Anyone who has sex with a nine year old is a rapist regardless of when it happened. Otherwise relativism would be the rule and I doubt that you would want that.

 

[Rocky]

To start with, I have the right to be provided for (100%, plus my children!) financially by my husband. I don’t have to work, but he has to support me.

Another thing, Islamically I am guaranteed inheritance from my relatives. According to US Law, they could divide up their inheritance any way they wished and totally exclude me (for whatever reason) but according to Islam, there is a portion of inheritance guaranteed to me.

Also, in the case of a divorce, my husband still has to continue providing for my children financially, 100%.

Just off the top of my head.

So, if a Muslim woman married a Christian man here in the US, where the law would protect her from harm from her family, and the husband did not convert to Islam, would her family still include her in inheritance?

And in the case of divorce where your husband has to continue providing for your children financially 100%, would they be allowed to live with you as their physical guardian under Islamic law, or would the father have custody of them?

 

[ZuzuBailey]

Anyone who has sex with a nine year old is a rapist regardless of when it happened. Otherwise relativism would be the rule and I doubt that you would want that.

Regardless of your feelings you should pick up some history books.

 

[Sister_Amy]

So, if a Muslim woman married a Christian man here in the US, where the law would protect her from harm from her family, would her family still include her in inheritance?

A Muslim woman would not marry a Christian man unless she converted to Christianity. And if she did that, she would be a Christian instead of a Muslim, and would not be guaranteed inheritance.

And in the case of divorce were you husband has to continue providing for your children financially 100%, would they be allowed to live with you as their physical guardian under Islamic law, or would the father have custody of them?

Joint custody is more appropriate, the children should know both of their parents.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

Joint custody is more appropriate, the children should know both of their parents.

no no no . The kids go to the father. This “joint” custody is a western thing.

 

[Sister_Amy]

no no no . The kids go to the father. This “joint” custody is a western thing.

According to whom? The mother is the primary caretaker and always the first choice for custody.

 

[Namesake]

Regardless of your feelings you should pick up some history books.

It clearly isn’t feelings. One thing the Enlightenment provided was a more clear understanding of human rights. We rightfully can look back on such behavior as barbaric and we can rightfully condemn such behavior because we are an enlightened society.

For a Muslim to defend such behavior is further evidence of the evil that is Islam. Who in the civilized world other than a Muslim would argue that sex with a nine year old was OK?

 

[ZuzuBailey]

According to whom? The mother is the primary caretaker and always the first choice for custody.

Shari’a laws say so…

8.0 - Child Custody Following Divorce
Under Shari’a, a father is the natural guardian (al waley) of his children’s persons and property. Shia doctrine also gives the child’s paternal grandfather joint guardianship.[83] According to Shari’a, a child’s paternal grandfather is his or her natural guardian after the father.[84] Under the laws of countries such as Kuwait , guardianship passes to the next relative on the father’s side if the father and paternal grandfather are unable to act as guardian.[85] Depending on local laws, a father may be able to transfer his power of attorney over his child to other family members. In custody abduction cases, a father brought into court may use this as a means of keeping the child in the custody of his relatives and he may claim that he lacks legal authority to return the child to its mother.

A mother generally has a right to physical, not legal, custody of her child until the child reaches the age of custodial transfer, at which time the child is returned to the physical custody of the father or the father’s family. The right to physical custody is not an absolute right in the sense that a mother or father who possesses physical custody may not prevent the other parent from seeing the child. While the parent with physical custody cannot be compelled to send the child to the other parent’s residence for visits, he or she must bring the child to a place where the other parent can see him or her.[86] Furthermore, in order to have physical custody, a parent must fulfill certain conditions. Firstly, the father or mother seeking custody must have reached majority and must be sane. He or she must also be capable of raising the child, looking after its interests, and protecting its physical and moral interests. Aside from these basic requirements, there are specific requirements based on the parent’s gender.[87] Since, by definition, Muslim fathers satisfy the specific requirements of a male custodian,[88] the following discussion will address only the requirements placed on a mother.

expertlaw.com/library/family_law/islamic_custody-3.html

 

[Namesake]

A Muslim woman would not marry a Christian man unless she converted to Christianity. And if she did that, she would be a Christian instead of a Muslim, and would not be guaranteed inheritance.

And she would be an apostate because Muslims are not allowed to convert to Christianity. Muslims aren’t at all tolerant of such conversion and in some places the convert is sentenced to death.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And she would be an apostate because Muslims are not allowed to convert to Christianity. Muslims aren’t at all tolerant of such conversion and in some places the convert is sentenced to death.

LOL

Not really. The penalty is for violating the oath of allegience which Muslims typically made upon converting to Islam (bayy’ah.) But Muslims don’t do that anymore, so they’re free to change their faith. Did you know that in the Hanafi madhhab, that rule didn’t even apply to women? Because they weren’t a threat to the state. So if Muslims today act kind of crazy, it’s because they don’t even know their own religion. Sad, but true.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

It clearly isn’t feelings. One thing the Enlightenment provided was a more clear understanding of human rights. We rightfully can look back on such behavior as barbaric and we can rightfully condemn such behavior because we are an enlightened society.

For a Muslim to defend such behavior is further evidence of the evil that is Islam. Who in the civilized world other than a Muslim would argue that sex with a nine year old was OK?

You live in 2009; not then. To YOU its sick. To a women then it was natural. Its just the way it is and the way it was.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Shari’a laws say so…

8.0 - Child Custody Following Divorce
Under Shari’a, a father is the natural guardian (al waley) of his children’s persons and property. Shia doctrine also gives the child’s paternal grandfather joint guardianship.[83] According to Shari’a, a child’s paternal grandfather is his or her natural guardian after the father.[84] Under the laws of countries such as Kuwait , guardianship passes to the next relative on the father’s side if the father and paternal grandfather are unable to act as guardian.[85] Depending on local laws, a father may be able to transfer his power of attorney over his child to other family members. In custody abduction cases, a father brought into court may use this as a means of keeping the child in the custody of his relatives and he may claim that he lacks legal authority to return the child to its mother.

A mother generally has a right to physical, not legal, custody of her child until the child reaches the age of custodial transfer, at which time the child is returned to the physical custody of the father or the father’s family. The right to physical custody is not an absolute right in the sense that a mother or father who possesses physical custody may not prevent the other parent from seeing the child. While the parent with physical custody cannot be compelled to send the child to the other parent’s residence for visits, he or she must bring the child to a place where the other parent can see him or her.[86] Furthermore, in order to have physical custody, a parent must fulfill certain conditions. Firstly, the father or mother seeking custody must have reached majority and must be sane. He or she must also be capable of raising the child, looking after its interests, and protecting its physical and moral interests. Aside from these basic requirements, there are specific requirements based on the parent’s gender.[87] Since, by definition, Muslim fathers satisfy the specific requirements of a male custodian,[88] the following discussion will address only the requirements placed on a mother.

expertlaw.com/library/family_law/islamic_custody-3.html

According to that same link:

In recognition of an infant’s need for female care, all the juristic schools give first preference to a mother’s claim to physical custody of her young child provided that she satisfies all the requirements for a female custodian.

Shari’ah law is not a code summarized online, by the way. This is merely one interpretation and not a legal document by which Muslims uphold their law. If you’re interested you should consult actual scholars on the issue.

All the ones I have EVER heard from personally say that JOINT CUSTODY is preferable.

 

[Verisimilitude]

You live in 2009; not then. To YOU its sick. To a women then it was natural. Its just the way it is and the way it was.

Even in Mohammeds day a 9 year old was considered to young to bed by the average Arabian though Mohammed waited 3 years after she was given to him by his best friend.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

Even in Mohammeds day a 9 year old was considered to young to bed by the average Arabian though Mohammed waited 3 years after she was given to him by his best friend.

I dont think is was according to age; it was when they started to menstruate.
From what I have read of that time period.
I will admit 9 is young; but it was close to the age of marriage.
Maybe she got her menses early?

cache.search.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=the+age+of+marriage+in+the+1200&fr=slv8-yie7&u=www.princeton.edu/%7Epswpc/pdfs/scheidel/110503.pdf&w=age+ages+marriage+1200&d=L9BWfi72RJCA&icp=1&.intl=us

 

[Namesake]

LOL

Not really. The penalty is for violating the oath of allegience which Muslims typically made upon converting to Islam (bayy’ah.) But Muslims don’t do that anymore, so they’re free to change their faith. Did you know that in the Hanafi madhhab, that rule didn’t even apply to women? Because they weren’t a threat to the state. So if Muslims today act kind of crazy, it’s because they don’t even know their own religion. Sad, but true.

Were you even aware of the Christian convert, from Islam, in Pakistan last year? He was sentenced to death and only through the considerable effort of several agencies including the US Department of State was he saved.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Read the book. But I assume it would be forbidden because you are Muslim and the book is very critical of Islam. You aren’t supposed to read that sort of stuff, are you!

 

[Eden]

Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and did not have intercourse with her until she was 9, *but *he did other horrible things to her besides intercourse until she was 9.

What the Quran/Hadiths say about marriage to children:

youtube.com/watch?v=U4WyZPP3m14

“In some Islamic countries, the age of maturity can be 8 or 10 years” says this Muslim (along with some pseudo-science about maturity having to do with the outside temperatures):

youtube.com/watch?v=4FE1yAGAqMY&feature=related

Mimicking the Muhammad-Aisha “marriage” today (WARNING: Graphic details of her ordeal, not for the faint of heart):

youtube.com/watch?v=GhCtg1tSEHQ

 

[Sister_Amy]

Scholars do not agree that Aisha was 9. Some say 12, some say 15.

Moreover, they DO AGREE that she was NO LONGER A CHILD.

In England in the middle ages, a 7-year old boy was punished the same was a 30-year old man would be punished for the same crime. In oral cultures, when a child is able to fully articulate himself as an adult he was considered to be one, tried and punished as one. Not in Islam, by the way. Islam wouldn’t let that happen.

I agree with ZuZu here that Namesake should go study anthropology.

 

[Eden]

Scholars do not agree that Aisha was 9. Some say 12, some say 15.

Moreover, they DO AGREE that she was NO LONGER A CHILD.

In England in the middle ages, a 7-year old boy was punished the same was a 30-year old man would be punished for the same crime. In oral cultures, when a child is able to fully articulate himself as an adult he was considered to be one, tried and punished as one. Not in Islam, by the way. Islam wouldn’t let that happen.

I agree with ZuZu here that Namesake should go study anthropology.

But there’s a problem. In his marriage to a child, Muhammad can’t be considered a man for all ages and for all people:

youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Lt38UpR0g

When he brought Aisha to his home, she brought her dolls, by the way. When she was placed on his lap before consummation, her nurse took her off a swing she was being pushed on, washed her face and her mother placed her on Muhammad’s lap. Sounds like a child to me. What adult is pushed on a swing by their nurse and has an adult wash their face?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Were you even aware of the Christian convert, from Islam, in Pakistan last year? He was sentenced to death and only through the considerable effort of several agencies including the US Department of State was he saved.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Read the book. But I assume it would be forbidden because you are Muslim and the book is very critical of Islam. You aren’t supposed to read that sort of stuff, are you!

I can read it if I want to, but why would I waste my precious time polluting my precious memory banks with it?

More to the point, Pakistan quite frequently acts against Islamic law. It’s not a surprise to me, nor should it be to you.

 

[Rocky]

Yes, I agree joint custody is more appropriate and children should know both of their parents. This would entail that both parents have shared custody of their children. And this usually means that the children travel from one parent’s home to the other’s home at certain times—weekend, whatever.

Under Islamic law would the children be able to live with you during the week or on the weekends even though the husband pays 100% of child support?

And do Islamic courts decide on the dollar amount that equals 100% support?