Info on SDA (continued)

[benidict]

It has been asked repeatedly in this forum to**:** Please provide one scripture that is prior to the 10 commandments that orders people to keep the Saturday sabbath. Just one scripture will suffice. Still waiting.

Moses said that the Saturday sabbath was for the Jews only**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

A Catholic Church father named Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD] wrote in his epistle to the Magnesians**:**

“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the [Saturday] Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day [Sunday], on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]). *:clapping: nicely put my brother! Peace

 

[benidict]

Richard Kastner’s consistent posting of out-of-context scriptures is bizarre. In Richard’s mind, there is obviously credence to his cutting-and-pasting of large volumes of non-contextual bible quotes to various conversations, but they are so consistently out-of-context and inappropriate that it’s oftentimes not even worth responding to. There are probably underlying and ongoing [demonic] spiritual issues that are concurrently working here.

i personally wouldnt call it demonic my brother, although i may be very wrong. it has to do, i think, with an authority issue. the SDA, like their other protestant bretheren, cannot accept the authority given to peter by Christ. and they cannot accept apostolic succession either. therefore, they are subject to a man made interpretation. theirs comes from joseph bates and E.G. White. not the apostles or Christ. until the authority question is settled, there can be no going forward. if they do not listen to the successors of the apostles, they do not listen to Christ. not only them, but all of protestantism. they are all in the same boat. sad…but true. Peace

 

[CatholicLover]

Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

you are mixing apples and oranges here. cain was not guilty of violating a sabbath obligation. it did not exist. his sacrifice was not acceptable to God, due to several reasons. it appears that abel actually went to some lengths to give God his best. where cain simply threw some items together and kinda winged it. nothing about the sabbath here. no sacrificial law was even enacted yet. we dont here of adam and eve sacrificing anything. it was not until later that people actually began to call on the name of the Lord. to tie the sabbath into the story of cain and abel is nonsense. the two have nothing to do with eachother. we dont hear of the commandment to keep the sabbath from creation all the way to mount sinai. then, it was given to the Jews. no one but the Jews. not the gentiles whatsoever. you yourselves do not follow the entire moral law that is attached to the 10 commandments. if you did, you would have stoned your own prophetess for prophecying falsely. you would burn witches, etc. etc. etc. there is much more to the law than just the sabbath or the 10 commandments. until you can honestly say you follow the moral law, and all its punishments and blessings, do not accuse the rest of us of not following something you yourself do not follow. Peace

No, Cain was not guilty of violating his Sabbath obligation, I think Richard is absolutely right here. He is saying that God had obviously given Adam and Eve His Law because Cain knew he had sinned both when he offered his vegetable sacrifice and when he killed Abel.

You are correct in saying that Genesis does not say that Adam and Eve were commanded to keep the Sabbath but it also does not say that Adam and Eve were told not to murder or steal. They obviously knew that murder was a sin however, therefore God’s Law must have been present.

 

[Nicea325]

Why don’t you want to respond to them? Set me straight me. How have I by taking these vs. out of context, as you say, said anything other than what Moses, John, and Paul intended?

You have been set straight,but your SDA glasses blind you. We are not Jews the OT was fulfilled. This is DEAD ISSUE which has been set straight long before ANY SDA ever existed! Your church was founded 1800 years later…no one cares,but only SDA’s.

You are wrong and nothing you quote will change an iota!

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You have been set straight,but your SDA glasses blind you. We are not Jews the OT was fulfilled. This is DEAD ISSUE which has been set straight long before ANY SDA ever existed! Your church was founded 1800 years later…no one cares,but only SDA’s.

You are wrong and nothing you quote will change an iota!

What do you think this says Nice.

Rom.9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

It has been asked repeatedly in this forum to**:** Please provide one scripture that is prior to the 10 commandments that orders people to keep the Saturday sabbath. Just one scripture will suffice. Still waiting.

Moses said that the Saturday sabbath was for the Jews only**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

A Catholic Church father named Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD] wrote in his epistle to the Magnesians**:**

“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the [Saturday] Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day [Sunday], on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]). *

What do you think this passage says me

Rom.9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And you must have forgotten. You say that these vs. were taken out of context and my interpretation of them was I think you put it demonicaly influenced. If that is so it seems you would be prancing at the bit to set the record straight. So once again what’s your take on these scriptures as well?

Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

1Jn.3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom.5
18(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Where there is no law sin cannot be imputed because

Rom.3
20b for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God gave the law from the very beginning. It was just not written down.

 

[Javl]

Richard:

You keep building straw men, beating dead horses with wet noodles, etc. with your Bible quotes, most of which are taken out of context, just to prove the SDA and yourself correct. Face up to it, please. The SDA is WRONG and has led you into error. The SDA follows the teachings of Miller and White. These have been proven time and again to be erroneous and false. Although the SDA is not a cult, it borders on it and one way or another just about forces you to accept its teaching. The SDA has led you to believe that it alone is correct, it alone knows the Bible, it alone can interpet the Bible, it alone has the whole truth, and on and on. This parrots the actions of cultic religions such as Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, and the like. Again I ask you to please, please, step outside of the SDA and find out the truth for yourself. I ( we ) fervently pray to the Holy Spirit to help and guide you and to show you what IS the truth.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

You keep building straw men, beating dead horses with wet noodles, etc. with your Bible quotes, most of which are taken out of context, just to prove the SDA and yourself correct. Face up to it, please. The SDA is WRONG and has led you into error. The SDA follows the teachings of Miller and White. These have been proven time and again to be erroneous and false. Although the SDA is not a cult, it borders on it and one way or another just about forces you to accept its teaching. The SDA has led you to believe that it alone is correct, it alone knows the Bible, it alone can interpet the Bible, it alone has the whole truth, and on and on. This parrots the actions of cultic religions such as Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, and the like. Again I ask you to please, please, step outside of the SDA and find out the truth for yourself. I ( we ) fervently pray to the Holy Spirit to help and guide you and to show you what IS the truth.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

All I see here is you flapping your lip. You have absolutely NO credibility, for the simple fact that you refuse to use scripture in your refutation. You keep posting over and over that I am wrong. You say that you have posted chapter and verse from the bible but again, it’s just you flapping your lip. If you have posted chapter and verse I certainly don’t remember them so POST THEM AGAIN. What’s the big deal? I have said before, if you can SHOW through scripture where I am wrong, I will apologise. You have not done that. WHY? Where’s your PROOF. You keep saying that I am wrong and then instead of giving the PROOF of your allegations you go off on some diversionary tirad about Ellen White. Again, Why is that Javl? If I am wrong, SHOW ME and that doesn’t mean just you SAYING that I am wrong. You need to SHOW ME from scripture or you are just making noise.

 

[me_again]

All I see here is you flapping your lip.

LOL

You have absolutely NO credibility, for the simple fact that you refuse to use scripture in your refutation.

Cutting-and-pasting gobs of out-of-context scriptures is probably worse. Seriously. :dts:

I have said before, if you can SHOW through scripture where I am wrong, I will apologise.

The request is reiterated**:** Again**:**

Please show one scripture that was before the 10 commandments where the Lord told people that they have to set aside Saturday to worship him. We’ve been waiting for this since the inception of this thread.

You keep saying that I am wrong and then instead of giving the PROOF of your allegations you go off on some diversionary tirad about Ellen White.

Here’s proof**:**

Moses said that the Saturday sabbath was for the Jews only**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

A Catholic Church father named Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD] wrote in his epistle to the Magnesians**:**

“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the [Saturday] Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day [Sunday], on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]). *

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The request is reiterated**:** Again**:**

Please show one scripture that was before the 10 commandments where the Lord told people that they have to set aside Saturday to worship him. We’ve been waiting for this since the inception of this thread.

Here’s several
Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

1Jn.3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom.5
18(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Where there is no law sin cannot be imputed because

Rom.3
20b for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God gave the law from the very beginning. It was just not written down. The law means the ten commandments. With the Sabbath commandment.

Here’s proof**:**

Moses said that the Saturday sabbath was for the Jews only**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

And here is what a Jew is

Rom.9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

A Jew is one who grabs hold of the promise of the Messiah. That Messiah is Jesus. A true Jew is Christian.

 

[me_again]

The request is reiterated**:** Again**:**

Please show one scripture that was before the 10 commandments where the Lord told people that they have to set aside Saturday to worship him. We’ve been waiting for this since the inception of this thread.
Richard Kastner;6935211:

Here’s several
Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

1Jn.3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom.5
18(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Where there is no law sin cannot be imputed because

Rom.3
20b for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Richard, those scriptures do not provide proof that the Lord had ordered people (prior to the issuance of the 10 commandments) to keep the Saturday sabbath.

God gave the law from the very beginning. It was just not written down. The law means the ten commandments. With the Sabbath commandment.

Then it’s not sola scripture. Do you acknowledge that a Saturday sabbath order (prior to Moses’ 10 commandments) is not sola scripture?

 

[me_again]

Here’s several
Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

1Jn.3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom.5
18(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Where there is no law sin cannot be imputed because

Rom.3
20b for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God gave the law from the very beginning. It was just not written down. The law means the ten commandments. With the Sabbath commandment.

Here’s proof**:**

And here is what a Jew is

Rom.9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

A Jew is one who grabs hold of the promise of the Messiah. That Messiah is Jesus. A true Jew is Christian.

That still does not make a case for re-instating the old Jewish Saturday sabbath for Christians who celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday.

 

[Javl]

All I see here is you flapping your lip. You have absolutely NO credibility, for the simple fact that you refuse to use scripture in your refutation. You keep posting over and over that I am wrong. You say that you have posted chapter and verse from the bible but again, it’s just you flapping your lip. If you have posted chapter and verse I certainly don’t remember them so POST THEM AGAIN. What’s the big deal? I have said before, if you can SHOW through scripture where I am wrong, I will apologise. You have not done that. WHY? Where’s your PROOF. You keep saying that I am wrong and then instead of giving the PROOF of your allegations you go off on some diversionary tirad about Ellen White. Again, Why is that Javl? If I am wrong, SHOW ME and that doesn’t mean just you SAYING that I am wrong. You need to SHOW ME from scripture or you are just making noise.

You do and keep doing just what you accuse me of doing. You say I keep flapping my lip, and just what are you doing?

I have shown through scripture that you are wrong, but you refuse to acknowledge, let alone accept what I have submitted, so what’s the use of posting it again? You’ll only ignore or reject it. Not only I, but others on this thread have posted absolutely definite proof of the error the SDA and you persist in. So what is the result? You reject it with your interpretation and definition which is absolutely erroneous. We have tried and tried again to make you understand, with Christian charity. But you have retorted with arrogance, insults, and tiresome rhetoric.

As for our tirade about Ellen White, we have also tried to make you understand that your answers, remarks and comments so obviously reflect her “teachings”. We know that she has been proven false in her prophecies, therefore she is also false and misleading in her
“teachings” regardless of what they are. We all wish that you would waken from your hypnotic stupor and “smell the coffee”.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[benidict]

All I see here is you flapping your lip. You have absolutely NO credibility, for the simple fact that you refuse to use scripture in your refutation. You keep posting over and over that I am wrong. You say that you have posted chapter and verse from the bible but again, it’s just you flapping your lip. If you have posted chapter and verse I certainly don’t remember them so POST THEM AGAIN. What’s the big deal? I have said before, if you can SHOW through scripture where I am wrong, I will apologise. You have not done that. WHY? Where’s your PROOF. You keep saying that I am wrong and then instead of giving the PROOF of your allegations you go off on some diversionary tirad about Ellen White. Again, Why is that Javl? If I am wrong, SHOW ME and that doesn’t mean just you SAYING that I am wrong. You need to SHOW ME from scripture or you are just making noise.

funny! the last time someone used scripture on another thread to refute you, and a whole lot of it…(yes that would be me ) you only responded with maybe one post. are you getting a little testy because your finding out you are not smarter than a highschool educated soldier? oh and i graduated with an average of D or D minus. so im not too smart. you as a college educated intellectual should be able to do better than this, and not lose your cool. this shows a chink in your armor. i know i know, im just flapping my lip. or my finger tips, since we are not speaking… but i for one do not feel like posting those 20 plus chapter and verse arguments that got no answer again. and i really dont think javl wants to waste his time either Peace

 

[benidict]

Here’s several
Gen 4
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God warns Cain here not to sin.

1Jn.3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom.5
18(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Where there is no law sin cannot be imputed because

Rom.3
20b for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God gave the law from the very beginning. It was just not written down. The law means the ten commandments. With the Sabbath commandment.

Here’s proof**:**

And here is what a Jew is

Rom.9
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

A Jew is one who grabs hold of the promise of the Messiah. That Messiah is Jesus. A true Jew is Christian.

richard, richard, oh poor richard. cain did not need to be given the law to know that something was right or wrong. the good Lord created us with a consience, so that even the indigenous people in the deepest darkest jungle, know that stealing is a sin, and so is murder. among other things. cain had not sinned. he was downcast because his sacrifice was not accepted. the Lord was warning him that sin crouched at the door, if he did not do right. if the law had been given to adam and eve, then there would have been no reason for the Lord to bring the israelites to the mount to give it. also theysaid we will do whatever the Lord commands us to do! this is the first time, the law was given. otherwise, what would have been the point? if they already had it, why go thru all the trouble of lightning thunder and a shaking mountain. they didnt HAVE IT YET! your argument is weak. as far as your chapter and verse on the Jews, you again took it out of context, And left out the parts that state God yet has a plan for physical Israel yet. keep it coming. this is going to get better and better. i for one am really enjoying this. and i still would like an answer to my question about E.G. White. would she have survived in israel under the law, when her prophecies didnt come true? its a valid question. the Law says NO, what say you richard? Peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

That still does not make a case for re-instating the old Jewish Saturday sabbath for Christians who celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday.

The Sabbath is not Jewish. It’s God’s Sabbath. You know this. It says it is in the bible. Ex. 20:10. The Sabbath was given at creation to mankind. You know this. It’s in the bible. Gen.2:3. The New covenant was made with the children of Israel You know this. It’s in the bible. Jer. 31:31-34. The true children of Israel (Jews) are those that believe in Jesus Christ. Rom. 9:4-8. The Sabbath is a perpetual sign between God and His people. The true Israelites (Christians). You know this. It’s in the bible. Ex.31:16 The Sabbath will be kept in the New Jerusalem. You know this. It’s in the bible. Isaiah66:23. The seventh day Sabbath is on Saturday. You know this it’s in the bible. Luke 23:52-24:1.There is only one day that can be kept as the Sabbath, the seventh day, Saturday. Exodus 16:27-28. If the Sabbath has been done away with all of the ten commandments have been done away with and there is no sin and Christ died for nothing. You know this its in the bible. Rom3:20. On Jesus two great commandments to love God and to love one another hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets. You know this. It’s in the bible. Matt.22:37-40. I don’t have to keep posting these things. You know them. Here’s something you may not have thought of.

In reference to the future destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus states in Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” Why would Jesus make a statement like this if He did not fully expect the Sabbath to be kept 39 years after His death.

The gospel of Luke states in Luke 23:56 that when the body of Christ was being prepared by His followers, “they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.” Luke’s gospel was written 30 to 50 years after the cross and there is no way he would make a statement like this without telling us of a change on something as important as the Ten Commandments. He would have said something like They kept the commandment of the old covenant which has been changed. He doesn’t do that. No, the Sabbath is still in effect and will be down through the ages of eternity. The question for you is: Are you going to be a viewer or one viewed?

Isaiah 66
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[benidict]

The Sabbath is not Jewish. It’s God’s Sabbath. You know this. It says it is in the bible. Ex. 20:10. The Sabbath was given at creation to mankind. You know this. It’s in the bible. Gen.2:3. The New covenant was made with the children of Israel You know this. It’s in the bible. Jer. 31:31-34. The true children of Israel (Jews) are those that believe in Jesus Christ. Rom. 9:4-8. The Sabbath is a perpetual sign between God and His people. The true Israelites (Christians). You know this. It’s in the bible. Ex.31:16 The Sabbath will be kept in the New Jerusalem. You know this. It’s in the bible. Isaiah66:23. The seventh day Sabbath is on Saturday. You know this it’s in the bible. Luke 23:52-24:1.There is only one day that can be kept as the Sabbath, the seventh day, Saturday. Exodus 16:27-28. If the Sabbath has been done away with all of the ten commandments have been done away with and there is no sin and Christ died for nothing. You know this its in the bible. Rom3:20. On Jesus two great commandments to love God and to love one another hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets. You know this. It’s in the bible. Matt.22:37-40. I don’t have to keep posting these things. You know them. Here’s something you may not have thought of.

In reference to the future destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus states in Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” Why would Jesus make a statement like this if He did not fully expect the Sabbath to be kept 39 years after His death.

The gospel of Luke states in Luke 23:56 that when the body of Christ was being prepared by His followers, “they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.” Luke’s gospel was written 30 to 50 years after the cross and there is no way he would make a statement like this without telling us of a change on something as important as the Ten Commandments. He would have said something like They kept the commandment of the old covenant which has been changed. He doesn’t do that. No, the Sabbath is still in effect and will be down through the ages of eternity. The question for you is: Are you going to be a viewer or one viewed?

Isaiah 66
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

i love it when people use the term " true israelites." this is a veiled racist statement. the ku klux klan, the christian identity movement, among other white supremacist groups use the same identifier of themselves. and it denies what is taught in the bible. where it states that the Jews have had a veil place over their eyes only for a time, till the FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES COME IN. there still is a future for physical israel, and the Jews, God has not forgotten them. also what do we do with malichi 1:11, where the Lord proclaims His Name is great among the GENTILES. for from the rising of the sun till the setting of such, they offer a pure oblation. paraphrase mine. Peace

 

[me_again]

The Sabbath is not Jewish. It’s God’s Sabbath. You know this. It says it is in the bible. Ex. 20:10. The Sabbath was given at creation to mankind. You know this. It’s in the bible. Gen.2:3. The New covenant was made with the children of Israel You know this. It’s in the bible. Jer. 31:31-34. The true children of Israel (Jews) are those that believe in Jesus Christ. Rom. 9:4-8. The Sabbath is a perpetual sign between God and His people. The true Israelites (Christians). You know this. It’s in the bible. Ex.31:16 The Sabbath will be kept in the New Jerusalem. You know this. It’s in the bible. Isaiah66:23. The seventh day Sabbath is on Saturday. You know this it’s in the bible. Luke 23:52-24:1.There is only one day that can be kept as the Sabbath, the seventh day, Saturday. Exodus 16:27-28. If the Sabbath has been done away with all of the ten commandments have been done away with and there is no sin and Christ died for nothing. You know this its in the bible. Rom3:20. On Jesus two great commandments to love God and to love one another hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets. You know this. It’s in the bible. Matt.22:37-40. I don’t have to keep posting these things. You know them. Here’s something you may not have thought of.

In reference to the future destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus states in Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” Why would Jesus make a statement like this if He did not fully expect the Sabbath to be kept 39 years after His death.

The gospel of Luke states in Luke 23:56 that when the body of Christ was being prepared by His followers, “they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.” Luke’s gospel was written 30 to 50 years after the cross and there is no way he would make a statement like this without telling us of a change on something as important as the Ten Commandments. He would have said something like They kept the commandment of the old covenant which has been changed. He doesn’t do that. No, the Sabbath is still in effect and will be down through the ages of eternity. The question for you is: Are you going to be a viewer or one viewed?

Isaiah 66
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Richard, I am so awestruck and dumbfounded that I am completely unable to respond to your post. Similarly, when you posted the scriptures about Cain in support of the Saturday sabbath, I was so awestruck and dumbfounded that I was unable to adequately reply. The forest is too thick to see because of the trees. However, Benedict replied with what I knew was right, but I was unable to articulate in writing, due to the simplicity of the answer e.g. Cain was downcast because his offering was rejected by God and not because of a Saturday sabbath issue.

Richard, I do not want to offend you, simply because you believe that New Covenant Christians are still required to live under the Old Covenant’s Jewish Saturday sabbath. Your conscience is clear and you sincerely believe that out of the integrity of your heart.

This is where we stand. Peace be to you.

 

[benidict]

Richard, I am so awestruck and dumbfounded that I am completely unable to respond to your post. Similarly, when you posted the scriptures about Cain in support of the Saturday sabbath, I was so awestruck and dumbfounded that I was unable to adequately reply. The forest is too thick to see because of the trees. However, Benedict replied with what I knew was right, but I was unable to articulate in writing, due to the simplicity of the answer e.g. Cain was downcast because his offering was rejected by God and not because of a Saturday sabbath issue.

Richard, I do not want to offend you, simply because you believe that New Covenant Christians are still required to live under the Old Covenant’s Jewish Saturday sabbath. Your conscience is clear and you sincerely believe that out of the integrity of your heart.

This is where we stand. Peace be to you.

baptist do the same thing to prove a premillinial rapture. i know, i used to be one. take verses from here and there, reguardless of context, to make a doctrinal stew, that may smell and taste pretty good. but in the end its going to cause serious gastro intestinal problems… think ill stick to the solid teaching of the Catholic Church. it may not be as fantastical, but it aint gonna give me heartburn or upset stomach either. how do you spell relief? C-A-T-H-O-L-I-C! lol! peace

 

[CatholicLover]

cain did not need to be given the law to know that something was right or wrong. the good Lord created us with a consience, so that even the indigenous people in the deepest darkest jungle, know that stealing is a sin, and so is murder. among other things. cain had not sinned. he was downcast because his sacrifice was not accepted. the Lord was warning him that sin crouched at the door, if he did not do right. if the law had been given to adam and eve, then there would have been no reason for the Lord to bring the israelites to the mount to give it. also theysaid we will do whatever the Lord commands us to do! this is the first time, the law was given. otherwise, what would have been the point? if they already had it, why go thru all the trouble of lightning thunder and a shaking mountain. they didnt HAVE IT YET!

If Cain and Able’s sacrifices were not for the atonement of their sins, what were they for? There is no command written in Genesis but it is clear that God must have given a Law of some kind. Genesis is a book that describes the origin of things and we have God’s example relating to the Sabbath, he rested on the 7th day, made it Holy and Sanctified it. I’m not sure how you can think that God’s last act of the week of Creation was ignored by his created beings.

Also, relating to your claim that the Sabbath was not for everyone consider the following from Isaiah 56 particularly vs 3, 6 and 7:
1 This is what the LORD says:
“Maintain justice
and do what is right,
for my salvation is close at hand
and my righteousness will soon be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
the man who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,
and keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
**3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say,
“The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.”
And let not any eunuch complain,
“I am only a dry tree.” **
4 For this is what the LORD says:
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant-
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will not be cut off.
**6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD
to serve him,
to love the name of the LORD,
and to worship him,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant-
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.” **

Although God gave His Law to the Isrealites in Exodus it is evident that it applied not only to them but to foreigners who ‘bind themselves to the Lord’. How? Serve Him, love his name, worship him, keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and hold fast to his covenant.