"Inhouse extravagance"

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Brian_Reeves

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At this moment I am looking at the pictures of “Pope Benedict XVI celebrates Mass at Yankee Stadium, New York” from the “The Catholic Times” and as I look at the lavish setting erected for this occasion my mind then goes to the millions who are crouching around stagnant pools of filthy water trying to get a drink to literally save their lives !!! I just cannot resolve the two and I believe that Jesus weeps, not only for the terrible state of the world but of that of His church.
 
Worshipping God is never “too extravagant.”

Jesus didn’t stop the woman from pouring the expensive oil on him. He even rebuked his disciples when they pointed out how much good they could accomplish by selling the oil.
 
Yes, but go on…“You have the poor with you always, and you can be kind to them whenever you wish, but you will not always have me. She has done what she could: she has anointed my body beforhand for its burial.” Mark C14 V7 (NJB)
 
What makes you think it’s an either/or proposition? What makes you think that just because we’re worshiping God in such a manner that we neglect all those “millions who are crouching around stagnant pools of filthy water”? If I recall correctly the Catholic Church is one of the institutions that continually run in the red because of all it’s charitable work and donations to these “millions who are crouching around stagnant pools of filthy water”.
 
“continually running into the red” …because of its “inhouse extravagance” I am suggesting. Neither of my own two Catholic churches that I have worshipped at have given significantly to overseas aid. I am simply saying that, like Mother teressa, PJ2, and St Fransis, to name but a few, we must get our priorities right, and please don’t tell me that PJ2 worshipped or even lived in lavish style because the worship was out of his hands, amost all of the time, and all he left when he died was a pen or wristwatch, I cannot remember which. On one of his third world trips he even gave away his ring to the poor, worth thousands. Mother Teressa saw Jesus in the poor and gave them everything, including her very self, “deny you self…”
“If anyone gives so much as a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is a disciple, then in truth I tell you, he will most certainly not go without his reward.” Matt C10 V42
 
So let me get this straight. You’d rather we gave all our money to the poor and stopped worshiping God in any manner that smacks of extravagance.

The problem with that is who gets to define what “extravagance” is? You?
 
Brian_Reeves said:
“continually running into the red” …because of its “inhouse extravagance” I am suggesting. Neither of my own two Catholic churches that I have worshipped at have given significantly to overseas aid. I am simply saying that, like Mother teressa, PJ2, and St Fransis, to name but a few, we must get our priorities right, and please don’t tell me that PJ2 worshipped or even lived in lavish style because the worship was out of his hands, amost all of the time, and all he left when he died was a pen or wristwatch, I cannot remember which. On one of his third world trips he even gave away his ring to the poor, worth thousands. Mother Teressa saw Jesus in the poor and gave them everything, including her very self, “deny you self…”
“If anyone gives so much as a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is a disciple, then in truth I tell you, he will most certainly not go without his reward.” Matt C10 V42
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Why not write all those involved?
 
Not me personally but the whole church, of which I am but a very small part. But then if it is the priest who dictates, as far as the parish church is concerned, or the Vatican as far as the whole, world wide church is concerned, then they must “carry the can” as it were, and a very heavy can I believe that will be !!!
But please, isn’t there anybody else out there, to try and get another perspective.
 
Brian_Reeves said:
Not me personally but the whole church, of which I am but a very small part. But then if it is the priest who dictates, as far as the parish church is concerned, or the Vatican as far as the whole, world wide church is concerned, then they must “carry the can” as it were, and a very heavy can I believe that will be !!!
But please, isn’t there anybody else out there, to try and get another perspective.
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Please use the forum search function. This dead horse has been beat so much it doesn’t look like a horse any more.
 
Just an FYI…for what it is worth…
The largest charitable organization in the world is the Catholic Church.
 
“inhouse extravagance” ??? To greet our guest to the United States - Pope Benedict - you think didn’t deserve what was arranged for him B. Reeves?? As the leader of the Roman Catholic Church we could never do enough for him.

How do you live? What are you doing for all the poor and starved surrounded by stagnant waters?? Do you allow your guests to fend for themselves?

There seems to always be someone out to complain about anything. We have enough of the secular public and media who love to harp and gripe about anything christian. Reading your comments sounds hypocritical and demeaning to our Holy Father Pope Benedict.
 
Considering that this was a huge congregation and they had to meet the needs of allowing the Pope to speak to this crowd, what did you expect? Is it too extravagant for the Pope to have the ‘Popemobile’? :confused:

The OP’s “concern” is obviated by the fact that the Church does, constantly, help the poor around the world. It gives billions of dollars and countless hours of effort toward feeding and clothing people and working for justice.

While I don’t think Jesus had any technological gadgets when he gave the Sermon on the Mount, how would he do it if he lived today? Wouldn’t he take advantage of the things we have? In point of fact, wouldn’t he have to?

If you think something needs to be done, increase your own giving.
 
Ohh… Lead by example, talk is cheap, as they say. Will you give away all your possessions or as the Apostle says give what you can. Which will I choose.
I think it was Judas who accused the others of waste, saying they could have sold the perfume and gave the money to the poor. But that just gives money an overweaning importance. The money that is spent on the construction of projects nearly always filters down to the laborour and supports him. Gosh!, even the Pharaohs provided a living for their farming community when they could not farm during the floods every year. They were employed building the pyramids and so earned their keep.
 
Anyway, I don’t think Yankee Stadium was built for Pope Benedict XVI mass.
 
Oh no I don’t mind the “popemobile” since, unfortunately he needs that for security reasons, and yes a loudspeaker system is obviously needed but please look at the pictures of the Mass at the Yankee Stadium and tell me if ALL that is needed.
As to my own giving, I give to the church what is needed for the church building (for reasons I’ve already explained), and I have made that clear to our priest, after that… “your almsgiving must be in secret, and your Father…” Matt C6 V4. Sorry I’m honestly not trying to play a “tit for tat” game, but it’s all there. Neither am I an evengelical, because I am aware of my Bible. Yes I am a Third Order Fransican, but before all of that, I am in love with Jesus, my Lord and Saviour, like you, I am sure. So then why are we getting our knickers in a twist" !!!
 
Where does ‘lavish’ end… I know some people that think even having a banner in church that says ‘King of Kings’ is too extravagant…

what abut quakers (correct me if I am wrong) I am sure they would see pretty much any modern church as ‘Lavish’…

Why not decry people like Olstean, TD Jakes, et al… they make bokoos from there church and books…

DO you judge yourself by the same standards? Is there anything in your life someone else could say is ‘extravagant’?

are there theives in the mix… yup… but to condemn the church that gives more than anyone?

very interesting

In Christ
 
Brian_Reeves said:
but please look at the pictures of the Mass at the Yankee Stadium and tell me if ALL that is needed.
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Considering that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is literally “Heaven on earth,” I don’t see why any Mass setting should NOT be extravagant. The Book of Revelation describes lots and lots of gold in Heaven in the form of golden lampstands and crowns. There’s even a crystal sea, and doesn’t it mention gems, too?

Your concern for the poor is not something I’m trying to argue against, only your seeming insistence that our worship of God should be cheapened.
 
Brian_Reeves said:
On one of his third world trips he even gave away his ring to the poor, worth thousands.
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And they are still poor - and the ring is gone.

Yes, we have to help the poor - that’s a given.

Do you believe that people in the Third World would have received clean water and good food if Pope Benedict XVI had been received in a vacant lot without any decoration whatsoever?
 
Yes the ring is gone, but do you, or I, know what effects such a gift has had made. But one of the main “effects” has been on the soul of the giver and probably is why PJ2 has been in the fast track for sainthood.
A “parking lot” wouldn’t have the seating ! I’m just simply suggesting that a lot of the “extravagant frills” could have trimmed.
Obviously that is, in the end I would imagine, up to the hosting country, although I assume, the vatican can give a powerful directive as to the Pope’s wishes. But whoever, I believe, they have to account for themselves in the end, but perhaps you don’t agree with that either. I do know that I will certainly have to give an account for all “the of water” I have given away.
 
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