Innocents Christianity has killed

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Eliza10

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I am not good at short snappy answers. Of course it has to be a true answers. Here is my question: On a non-religious forum that widely reflects the cultural ignorance and hostility to Christianity, I mentioned Holy Innocents Day and someone asked, simply, “I wonder how many innocents Christianity has killed in the centuries since?”

This person is not asking for a deep discussion, but I can’t just let this go without some *short *defense. Plus, I get very annoyed, and that does not help my argument. Any ideas?
 
Eliza10 said:
I am not good at short snappy answers. Of course it has to be a true answers. Here is my question: On a non-religious forum that widely reflects the cultural ignorance and hostility to Christianity, I mentioned Holy Innocents Day and someone asked, simply, “I wonder how many innocents Christianity has killed in the centuries since?”

This person is not asking for a deep discussion, but I can’t just let this go without some *short *defense. Plus, I get very annoyed, and that does not help my argument. Any ideas?
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Unfortunately, the only honest answer is, “Too many.”
 
Eliza10 said:
Oh, I didn’t know Christianity was about killing innocents.
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It’s not, of course, but we can’t be so naive as to think that no blood has been spilled in the name of Christianity over the past 2,000 years. And some of that blood was from children.

So, by attempting to deny something that has happened, Christians make themselves look bad in the eyes of non-believers.

Same thing with the priest scandal, for example. Why deny something that is obviously true?
 
Randy_Carson said:
It’s not, of course, but we can’t be so naive as to think that no blood has been spilled in the name of Christianity over the past 2,000 years. And some of that blood was from children.

So, by attempting to deny something that has happened, Christians make themselves look bad in the eyes of non-believers.

Same thing with the priest scandal, for example. Why deny something that is obviously true?
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Those who did it “in the name of Christianity” used Christianity as an excuse for their own ends. Killing innocents is not what we teach. Even Jesus had a betrayer of all He taught among His Twelve.

As to the priest scandal, yes, in the same way we have betrayers in the Priesthood, and becoming Catholic does not magically make you stop sinning all of the sudden against your will. However, what most people do not realize is that you are FAR, FAR more likely to be molested in a public school setting than in a Catholic Church.
 
Eliza10 said:
Those who did it “in the name of Christianity” used Christianity as an excuse for their own ends. Killing innocents is not what we teach. Even Jesus had a betrayer of all He taught among His Twelve.

As to the priest scandal, yes, in the same way we have betrayers in the Priesthood, and becoming Catholic does not magically make you stop sinning all of the sudden. However, what most people do not realize is that you are FAR, FAR more likely to be molested in a public school setting than in a Catholic Church.
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Yes, I know.

The point, however, is that when a Catholic or a Christian of another fellowship begins to say anything that sounds like an excuse, the non-believer immediately shuts off.

Why not simply say: “You have a point. Many people have done bad things in the name of Christianity…and yet, they were wrong to do so, because killing innocent children is not what Jesus taught us to do.”

Now, how can anyone disagree with you? Instead, you’ve opened the door to a discussion on how important it is for us to follow what Jesus actually said and not simply what we want to believe He said.

That’s going to be a very different conversation than you’ll have by simply saying, “Christians never killed any children.”
 
Eliza10 said:
I am not good at short snappy answers. Of course it has to be a true answers. Here is my question: On a non-religious forum that widely reflects the cultural ignorance and hostility to Christianity, I mentioned Holy Innocents Day and someone asked, simply, “I wonder how many innocents Christianity has killed in the centuries since?”

This person is not asking for a deep discussion, but I can’t just let this go without some *short *defense. Plus, I get very annoyed, and that does not help my argument. Any ideas?
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I think for a short retort, say “well when you can find one innocent that was deliberately killed for Christ in order to advanced His Kingdom, let me know”. I guess I would rethink my involvement in a hostile forum if you are going to be out numbered or out gunned. Maybe that it just me.
 
Randy_Carson said:
…

Why not simply say: “You have a point. Many people have done bad things in the name of Christianity…and yet, they were wrong to do so, because killing innocent children is not what Jesus taught us to do.”
…
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Good one, Randy. Starting with agreement usually works!
 
robwar said:
I think for a short retort, say “well when you can find one innocent that was deliberately killed for Christ in order to advanced His Kingdom, let me know”. I guess I would rethink my involvement in a hostile forum if you are going to be out numbered or out gunned. Maybe that it just me.
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Good one, robwar! And yes, the hostility makes me want to flee but I am going to limit my time. (Also thinking i want to be salt… but still I need to put in less time).
 
Eliza10 said:
Good one, robwar! And yes, the hostility makes me want to flee but I am going to limit my time. (Also thinking i want to be salt… but still I need to put in less time).
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Well, good luck to you. I guess you are braver than myself or I am too old and battle weary. Probably the later. I understand what the other poster was saying in that yes there have been, are and will be Christians that have “killed” children. Yes, some of that stuff did happen during war times like the crusades and casualities have always been a part of every war no matter who was fighting in it. But to make a blanket statement the in a name of Christ children are directly killed to advanced the kingdom is a bogus brainless argument. I thought of another retort to the comment, " Oh you mean those ISIS type guys right, You must have your religions mixed up… You must mean those guys over there in the middle east that are going around capturing, raping and killing women and children right?" This way you put their ignorant and stupid statements back on them. Good luck!
 
Randy_Carson said:
It’s not, of course, but we can’t be so naive as to think that no blood has been spilled in the name of Christianity over the past 2,000 years. And some of that blood was from children.

So, by attempting to deny something that has happened, Christians make themselves look bad in the eyes of non-believers.

Same thing with the priest scandal, for example. Why deny something that is obviously true?
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People did those things, individual human beings, not religion.

Christians, not Christianity.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
People did those things, individual human beings, not religion.

Christians, not Christianity.

-Tim-
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I know. But when you’re dealing with folks in a hostile online forum, sometimes it’s best to show a little humility. It’s the last thing they’re expecting. 😉
 
Eliza10 said:
I am not good at short snappy answers. Of course it has to be a true answers. Here is my question: On a non-religious forum that widely reflects the cultural ignorance and hostility to Christianity, I mentioned Holy Innocents Day and someone asked, simply, “I wonder how many innocents Christianity has killed in the centuries since?”

This person is not asking for a deep discussion, but I can’t just let this go without some *short *defense. Plus, I get very annoyed, and that does not help my argument. Any ideas?
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Christianity has killed absolutely zero innocents.

Sinful men maybe have done so who call themselves Christians but that is another matter.
 
Eliza10 said:
Good one, robwar! And yes, the hostility makes me want to flee but I am going to limit my time. (Also thinking i want to be salt… but still I need to put in less time).
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BTW, Eliza, I’m sure you know this, but Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot killed more people in the 20th century alone than were EVER killed in wars of religion.

And those were men who rejected religion.

The idea that religious wars killed more is must pop culture nonsense.
 
Eliza10 said:
I am not good at short snappy answers. Of course it has to be a true answers. Here is my question: On a non-religious forum that widely reflects the cultural ignorance and hostility to Christianity, I mentioned Holy Innocents Day and someone asked, simply, “I wonder how many innocents Christianity has killed in the centuries since?”

This person is not asking for a deep discussion, but I can’t just let this go without some *short *defense. Plus, I get very annoyed, and that does not help my argument. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Ok here is the old Protestant in me coming out. Real Christians have killed no one accept in self defense and just war (crusades for example, wwII). Just because someone says they are a christian, and goes to church does not make them a christian.

Our lord said to beware of the wolf (non-christian) in sheep’s clothing (pretending to be a christian). And he said we would know them by their fruits (how they act).

Killing innocent people is not a fruit of the holy spirit.

I would also point out that the number of deaths at the hands of christians is not nearly as high as they think.
 
Steveabrous said:
Ok here is the old Protestant in me coming out. Real Christians have killed no one accept in self defense and just war (crusades for example, wwII). Just because someone says they are a christian, and goes to church does not make them a christian.

Our lord said to beware of the wolf (non-christian) in sheep’s clothing (pretending to be a christian). And he said we would know them by their fruits (how they act).

Killing innocent people is not a fruit of the holy spirit.

I would also point out that the number of deaths at the hands of christians is not nearly as high as they think.
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petra22 said:
Good one!👍
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Do real Christians sin? Do they make mistakes?

As unthinkable as it seems, real believers could commit serious sins - including killing - for which they later repented.
 
I have to agree with Randy Carson here.

Rejecting examples of Christians murdering people as being those of fake Christians is nothing more than the Logical FallacyNo True Scotsman.

Accepting examples of Christians murdering people while claiming that this shouldn’t in any way affect a person’s impression of Christianity is a bit naive. We judge philosophies based on their fruits expressed in individuals all the time, both good and bad. You can’t point to examples of Christian charity in order to laud Christianity while ignoring cases of individual Christians doing atrocious things. It’ll take a little more fleshing out than that.
 
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