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NolePaul2009
Guest
How does one respond to the attacks from protestants or other non-Catholics when referring to the Spanish Inquisition?
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Squishy
Guest
You really don’t have to. Many many terrible things have been done in the name of religions throughout the world and throughout human history.
The catholics are no worse or better for it than any of the others. They just have the unfortunate positions of still being an organised religion today. This would be the same as blaming a german for the holocost.
Unfounded and unreasonable.
The catholics are no worse or better for it than any of the others. They just have the unfortunate positions of still being an organised religion today. This would be the same as blaming a german for the holocost.
Unfounded and unreasonable.
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ziapueblo
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M0nkey
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1edyson
Guest
Acknowledge it, don’t pretend to say it never happened, or down play it, but ask them for their thoughts, and factual evidence to support their views. Then do some research, like with the links posted, and address the real facts with citations.
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1ke
Guest
With facts and charity.
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1ke
Guest
This statement presumes the Inquisition was a “terrible thing” which is the logical fallacy of “begging the question.”
One must prove that it was a “terrible” thing, not merely assert it as a fact.
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NolePaul2009
Guest
I read that article and in my opinion, it was very informative!
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Fidelis
Guest
Are you kidding? That is one of my favorite websites.
They have tons more articles on this same subject:
catholiceducation.org/links/search.cgi
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VociMike
Guest
Protestants in the USA need to be circumspect about using the Inquisition as a club against the Catholic Church (by no means am I saying that every mention of the subject has this goal in mind).
The reason they need to be circumspect is that in the USA it was Protestants who accused people of witchcraft and killed them. And it was Protestants who formed the ranks of the KKK (including Protestant ministers), and who killed and terrorized Catholics as well as blacks.
People can and should be able to discuss all these things (and the various Inquisitions) rationally and calmly and with intellectual honesty, but if and when it comes to slinging mud, American Protestants may be on the receiving end much more than they expected.
The reason they need to be circumspect is that in the USA it was Protestants who accused people of witchcraft and killed them. And it was Protestants who formed the ranks of the KKK (including Protestant ministers), and who killed and terrorized Catholics as well as blacks.
People can and should be able to discuss all these things (and the various Inquisitions) rationally and calmly and with intellectual honesty, but if and when it comes to slinging mud, American Protestants may be on the receiving end much more than they expected.
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expectthebest
Guest
Agreed. I still would have hoped that the one true Faith would have acted better then the protestants. I don’t like the arguement that the Church didn’t do anything that other religions have not done. The one true Faith is supposed to be lead by the Holy Spirit which would hopefully help make the Church above such things. It’s kind of like the politician who rants against some evil and then ends up getting caught doing it.
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kaizen
Guest
Hello there! Usually, before I go to any discussion about the Inquisition with my non-Catholic friends (and also “non-friends” sometimes), I do the following:
Its very funny when Protestants–especially the former Catholic anti-Catholic–claim that they “knew it all” about the inquisition yet end up getting a score of 25 below in my “Inquisition exam”.
Try doing the same. It makes them open to FAIR TALK about the issue.
- I ask them whether they really researched the issue thoroughly and objectively. If they said “yes” (and they always does), then…
Its very funny when Protestants–especially the former Catholic anti-Catholic–claim that they “knew it all” about the inquisition yet end up getting a score of 25 below in my “Inquisition exam”.
Try doing the same. It makes them open to FAIR TALK about the issue.
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VociMike
Guest
I never made that argument. In fact, I said nothing whatsoever about the Inquisitions. What I did say was that people should be able to discuss the reality of all of these actions in a fair and calm and rational manner.
So what exactly do you find wrong in what the Church did, in the time and place that she did it? And do you think that what was done was understood by the doers to be indefensible? (and be sure and read up on your Old Testament before you answer off the cuff on that).
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CentralFLJames
Guest
I think it is best to admit that there were some abuses but that it was in no way as bad as the (protestant) propaganda and historical revisionism makes it out to be.
People that bring this revised history up are generally the same people who will also disallow the record of history and insist “bible only” when talking about The Church being Catholic. Of course since we are Catholics its our tradition to suffer being held to a double standard that no one else wants to be held to and it would be unfair to ask them to prove it in the bible.
People that bring this revised history up are also generally the same people who will not think at all of how small the numbers were and the fact that most citizens preferred the Catholic Inquisition courts to the very harsh and abusive secular civil courts that had none of the restraints of due process, requirements for multiple witnesses or any compulsion whatsoever to exercise moral restraint on the cruelty and severity of punishment. Of course they are probably ignorant of the history of England where Protestant King’s Men routinely tortured and disemboweled Catholic monks and ecclesial members for failing to renounce Rome and acknowledge the King as Head of Church. They are also probably ignorant that The Head of the Protestant Church (the king and queen) imposed taxes and fines on Catholics who did not attend Anglican services every Sunday and sent thugs to beat them up if they refused to pay or claimed they were not religious.
And these are the same people who will not consider that the current “fair” secular government that gives them the freedom to ask these questions is also the same government that has permitted 50 MILLION innocent and defenseless babies to be aborted - more than the entire population of Europe at the time of the Inquisitions!
So when responding to these sort of questions it is important to set the contexts of standards ans scale and prove to them that by contemporary standards they better be careful when asking these questions since society is not necessarily any better than it was in the days of the Inquisition.
I also think its important to show that the numbers actually executed during the inquisition are small - especially when compared to the numbers murdered under protestant rule in their mock witch trials (by some estimates 100,000-200,000 witches burned by Protestant secular states). Compare that with 59 actual women executed during the Spanish Inquisition.
James
People that bring this revised history up are generally the same people who will also disallow the record of history and insist “bible only” when talking about The Church being Catholic. Of course since we are Catholics its our tradition to suffer being held to a double standard that no one else wants to be held to and it would be unfair to ask them to prove it in the bible.
People that bring this revised history up are also generally the same people who will not think at all of how small the numbers were and the fact that most citizens preferred the Catholic Inquisition courts to the very harsh and abusive secular civil courts that had none of the restraints of due process, requirements for multiple witnesses or any compulsion whatsoever to exercise moral restraint on the cruelty and severity of punishment. Of course they are probably ignorant of the history of England where Protestant King’s Men routinely tortured and disemboweled Catholic monks and ecclesial members for failing to renounce Rome and acknowledge the King as Head of Church. They are also probably ignorant that The Head of the Protestant Church (the king and queen) imposed taxes and fines on Catholics who did not attend Anglican services every Sunday and sent thugs to beat them up if they refused to pay or claimed they were not religious.
And these are the same people who will not consider that the current “fair” secular government that gives them the freedom to ask these questions is also the same government that has permitted 50 MILLION innocent and defenseless babies to be aborted - more than the entire population of Europe at the time of the Inquisitions!
So when responding to these sort of questions it is important to set the contexts of standards ans scale and prove to them that by contemporary standards they better be careful when asking these questions since society is not necessarily any better than it was in the days of the Inquisition.
I also think its important to show that the numbers actually executed during the inquisition are small - especially when compared to the numbers murdered under protestant rule in their mock witch trials (by some estimates 100,000-200,000 witches burned by Protestant secular states). Compare that with 59 actual women executed during the Spanish Inquisition.
James
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expectthebest
Guest
I didn’t say you did make the argument. If you look back, I said I agreed with you. I just added my personal thoughts on the matter.
VociMike, I’m not going to debate you. I come to this forum looking for answers and for good charitable debate. I’m not going to deal with your militant attitude and condescending style when debating.
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expectthebest
Guest
James, a very well thought out statement which I mostly agree with. But, I do think the Church, as the one true Church, should be held to a higher standard and it is partially up to us as Catholics to see that the standard is high.I think it is best to admit that there were some abuses but that it was in no way as bad as the (protestant) propaganda and historical revisionism makes it out to be.
People that bring this revised history up are generally the same people who will also disallow the record of history and insist “bible only” when talking about The Church being Catholic. Of course since we are Catholics its our tradition to suffer being held to a double standard that no one else wants to be held to and it would be unfair to ask them to prove it in the bible.
People that bring this revised history up are also generally the same people who will not think at all of how small the numbers were and the fact that most citizens preferred the Catholic Inquisition courts to the very harsh and abusive secular civil courts that had none of the restraints of due process, requirements for multiple witnesses or any compulsion whatsoever to exercise moral restraint on the cruelty and severity of punishment. Of course they are probably ignorant of the history of England where Protestant King’s Men routinely tortured and disemboweled Catholic monks and ecclesial members for failing to renounce Rome and acknowledge the King as Head of Church. They are also probably ignorant that The Head of the Protestant Church (the king and queen) imposed taxes and fines on Catholics who did not attend Anglican services every Sunday and sent thugs to beat them up if they refused to pay or claimed they were not religious.
And these are the same people who will not consider that the current “fair” secular government that gives them the freedom to ask these questions is also the same government that has permitted 50 MILLION innocent and defenseless babies to be aborted - more than the entire population of Europe at the time of the Inquisitions!
So when responding to these sort of questions it is important to set the contexts of standards ans scale and prove to them that by contemporary standards they better be careful when asking these questions since society is not necessarily any better than it was in the days of the Inquisition.
I also think its important to show that the numbers actually executed during the inquisition are small - especially when compared to the numbers murdered under protestant rule in their mock witch trials (by some estimates 100,000-200,000 witches burned by Protestant secular states). Compare that with 59 actual women executed during the Spanish Inquisition.
James
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VociMike
Guest
I thought we’re all here trying to answer the OPs question. Anybody who says the Inquisition was wrong should be prepared to say why it was wrong, and whether it could be judged wrong at that time in history, in light of the situation at that time in history, and in light of the Old Testament.
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ljl
Guest
I am not a theologian nor a biblical scholar, but it seems to me I remember reading in the old testament that God had commanded the Jewish army to strike a certain city in the middle east, and to kill all inhabitants (women and children?). After the invasion, God was upset because some inhabitants had been brought back as slaves (perhaps someone can help with the citation for this particular passage).
The point is that there were very harsh realities in ancient times. I agree with the gentleman who indicated that the inquisitions were held so as to provide a less harsh treatment than would have been provided by the civil courts. Apostasy was considered a very serious offense in the middle ages, and especially in the post reformation era when politics was very much a factor in a person’s belief or lack thereof.
The point is that there were very harsh realities in ancient times. I agree with the gentleman who indicated that the inquisitions were held so as to provide a less harsh treatment than would have been provided by the civil courts. Apostasy was considered a very serious offense in the middle ages, and especially in the post reformation era when politics was very much a factor in a person’s belief or lack thereof.
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Appleby
Guest
Or blaming White people for slavery? I had that discussion with a German woman my own age and after raving that she was not even born when the Holocaust happened, she began attacking me for slavery (for which I was equally not responsible) and with that question she was silenced.
It is far past time we stopped blaming people for things they could have no possible connection with.
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Vonier
Guest
I would first counsel the Protestant to research the reactions of Calvin and Zwingli (two prominent Reformers) to the Anabaptists. The Anabaptists, who later became the Mennonites and Amish, espoused what they call “believer’s baptism” and the so-called Reformers in charge alternately burned and drowned them for their perceived heresy. There are many, many other examples of Protestant cruelty in history.
Same is true of having the Inquisition thrown in your face by a non-believer. Refer them to the Black Book of Communism. No group on the planet has killed more of their fellow men than non-believers like the Communists.
Same is true of having the Inquisition thrown in your face by a non-believer. Refer them to the Black Book of Communism. No group on the planet has killed more of their fellow men than non-believers like the Communists.
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