Inquisition Questions

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Yes, they should look on for themselves. I gave 2 links in Hungarian. Unfortuneately I don’t have the time to translate it, but still, it is fact.
Since I cannot read Hungarian, I am not able to comment on the links. Hopefully, someone can provide a similar site in English. Unless the sources are primary, one cannot assume they are “facts” or even accurate.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Since I cannot read Hungarian, I am not able to comment on the links.
Don’t you realise it’s a pre-requisite for debating here! 😛
Hopefully, someone can provide a similar site in English. Unless the sources are primary, one cannot assume they are “facts” or even accurate.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
I think you should just go away and have a long think over this, and I’m sure you’ll just be convinced by csmatyi’s argument.

I know I was:rolleyes:
 
Take a look at this:

reformiert-online.net/t/eng/bildung/grundkurs/gesch/lek5/index7.jsp

But all Hungarian history books deal with this. If you’re Hungarian, you know.
I appreciate the site. But my statement still stands that we cannot assume everything we were taught is correct. For example, I was taught a story about George Washington chopping down a cherry tree" but that never happened. It is a national myth. Each country often has their own “spin” on history. For example, the history of Native Americans in the United States is often inaccurately portrayed.

I am not trying to start a debate on history, but am trying to emphasize each person must study these things for themselve, using primary resources, and using scholarly books. We cannot just rely on other people`s websites. (CAF being the exception! :-))

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Don’t you realise it’s a pre-requisite for debating here! 😛

I think you should just go away and have a long think over this, and I’m sure you’ll just be convinced by csmatyi’s argument.

I know I was:rolleyes:
Silly me, and to think, I thought Japanese was the pre-requisite. (I`m in Tokyo!. Shall I post some Japanese links?) To me, the language one is using for the discussion, should be the same language we use when citing sources. But maybe I am myopic.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Silly me, and to think, I thought Japanese was the pre-requisite. (I`m in Tokyo!. Shall I post some Japanese links?) To me, the language one is using for the discussion, should be the same language we use when citing sources. But maybe I am myopic.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Honda sony toyota sanyo!
-Scary Movie 4
🙂
 
*I appreciate the site. But my statement still stands that we cannot assume everything we were taught is correct. *

I do not find this to be at all a strong argument. If you say so! In this way we cannot be sure about anything that has happened in the past.

*For example, I was taught a story about George Washington chopping down a cherry tree" but that never happened. It is a national myth. Each country often has their own “spin” on history. For example, the history of Native Americans in the United States is often inaccurately portrayed.
*

As far as this is concerned I could say that the RCC has put a severe spin on how they portray the Inquisition. Roman Catholic historians Kung, Acton, de Rosa, Paris and others have the courage to come out and tell the truth about the Inquisition and the church’s role in it, compared to others who have a bias and want to whitewash the RCC. You might know Richard Peter Bennett who was a former Catholic priest for 22 years, and who has done extensive research on the history of the inquisition. He says that 75 popes in a row from 1203 to 1808 (compared to only 6 years of the holocaust!!!) all upheld and refined the torture methods of the inquisition where many millions of Protestants, amongst others of different faiths were exterminated in many countries. You could even take a look at how about a million non-Catholics were killed in WW2 in Croatia by the Ustashis’s whose flag now adorns the national flag of Croatia. The number is simply staggering, and actually, the main thing isn’t in what countries it happened, but that such a massive number of human lives were extinguished.

You might want to take a look at for example the secret oaths
of the Jesuits (this has been registered in the library of Congress):

ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

I find this unbeleivable, and if only even a small part of this is true, then we must all start seriously considering where we are and what Rome is up to.

Regards, Matthew C
 
*I appreciate the site. But my statement still stands that we cannot assume everything we were taught is correct. *

I do not find this to be at all a strong argument. If you say so! In this way we cannot be sure about anything that has happened in the past.
.

Regards, Matthew C
Dear Matthew,

What I am trying to say, is we all need to question our assumptions, and ask ourselves, “how do we know what we know.” Sometimes, what we base our knowledge on, is not actually fact, and that leads to false assumptions.

Have you ever taken a class in logic or analysis? Sometimes we need to reexamine our conclusions to see if they are still valid. That point, is what I was trying to express.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Is heresy an atrocity? It destroys souls. I hold that spreading heresy is perhaps the greatest crime against Christians that a person can commit.
 
Is heresy an atrocity? It destroys souls. I hold that spreading heresy is perhaps the greatest crime against Christians that a person can commit.
You make an excellent point. Heresy can destroy souls for eternity. Violence and murder are wrong. The Church is made up of sinners, and these sinners have sometimes made horrible mistakes. That does not make the Church wrong.

I admire our Catholic Church for always trying to protect and safeguard the teachings that Jesus taught us, whether oral teachings, or those written down in the Bible. The Catholic Church has acknowledged, and repented, when the sinners that make up the Church, have erred. That being said, many of the claims those make regarding the Catholic Church and the Inquisition, are downright false. An honest study of the Inquisition is fair.

But I think some of our Protestant brothers and sisters, are “thowing stones” even though they live in glass houses. And others, simply “love to hate” the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
You make an excellent point. Heresy can destroy souls for eternity. Violence and murder are wrong. The Church is made up of sinners, and these sinners have sometimes made horrible mistakes. That does not make the Church wrong.

I admire our Catholic Church for always trying to protect and safeguard the teachings that Jesus taught us, whether oral teachings, or those written down in the Bible. The Catholic Church has acknowledged, and repented, when the sinners that make up the Church, have erred. That being said, many of the claims those make regarding the Catholic Church and the Inquisition, are downright false. An honest study of the Inquisition is fair.

But I think some of our Protestant brothers and sisters, are “thowing stones” even though they live in glass houses. And others, simply “love to hate” the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Indeed. No Catholic in his right mind would try to defend bloodshed as if it were a good thing.

The point here is that EVERYONE – Protestants and Catholics alike – dealt with heresy on two fronts: the spiritual and the social. Not only was heresy considered mortal because it kills souls but it disturbed the order of the State, which was seen as a God-given order. EVERYONE dealt with dissent using the same techniques.

Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands. There is no “good guy” here. Catholics should not be seen as “justifying” the wrongs of the past when they point out that the wrongs were equally distributed on all sides.
 
Indeed. No Catholic in his right mind would try to defend bloodshed as if it were a good thing.

The point here is that EVERYONE – Protestants and Catholics alike – dealt with heresy on two fronts: the spiritual and the social. Not only was heresy considered mortal because it kills souls but it disturbed the order of the State, which was seen as a God-given order. EVERYONE dealt with dissent using the same techniques.

Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands. There is no “good guy” here. Catholics should not be seen as “justifying” the wrongs of the past when they point out that the wrongs were equally distributed on all sides.
I agree 100 percent! Excellent post! You said what I was trying to explain a million times better!

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
You might want to take a look at for example the secret oaths
of the Jesuits (this has been registered in the library of Congress):

ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

I find this unbeleivable, and if only even a small part of this is true, then we must all start seriously considering where we are and what Rome is up to.

Regards, Matthew C
Well, you had me wondering until you put this “little ditty” up. Does the same web-site that gives you all your other information offer up this tidbit as well? This comes from the “oldie but goodie” files!

That’s also a good touch. Plant that seed, that if it’s not totally true, it “has to have some grain of truth” and therefore it condemns the Jesuits.

Good day, Matthew.
 
“Inquisitions did not exist in Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, or England, being confined mainly to southern France, Italy, Spain, and a few parts of the Holy Roman Empire. The Inquisition could not have killed that many people because those parts of Europe did not have that many people to kill!”

Everybody knows about how the Protestant bishops Latimer and Ridley were burned at the stake in England.
You are conflating all religious persecution with the Inquisition. Also, since Mary was married to the king of Spain, there was a Spanish influence on the policies during her reign–but as far as I know the formal Inquisition was not introduced. Plenty of government executed people without benefit of the Inquisition.
Everybody knows full well in Hungary how the Jesuit-led counter-Reformation
But was the Inquisition involved? This is narrowly about the Inquisition, not about religious persecution in general. (And yes, Catholics need to be reminded that persecution went way beyond the Inquisition.)
exterminated thousands of Protestants (mainly Reformed) under the treacherous and bloodthirsty Peter Pazmany who for example forced naked Protestants to stand in the freezing waters of Lake Balaton in order to force them to convert back to Catholicism.
Do you have any documentation for this claim in a Germanic or Romance language? Alas, the only Hungarian words I know are koszonom, Isten, szivesen, and (oddly) villamos. I found a brief description of Peter Pazmany here, though it may of course be whitewashed. This site claims that Pazmany used only nonviolent methods. I read all about the evil Jesuits in Eastern Europe long ago in J. A. Wylie’s History of Protestantism. But I have since learned that Wylie is not to be relied on, and the impression I have gotten from my limited reading on the subject as a scholar of the Reformation is that the Jesuits primarily used education and persuasion (and, yes, political intrigue) to win Protestants back, rather than violence. (Actually I remember Wylie primarily talking about these methods too, but he made them sound very sinister.)

And why do you call Pazmany treacherous? Because he converted from Protestantism to Catholicism?
How Protestant churches were opressed, for example by not being allowed to have their churches on main streets, how all administrators were forced to swear by Mary and the saints,
These things I have no difficulty believing. Even in the tolerant Netherlands Catholic and dissenting Protestant churches were not allowed to be on main streets or advertise their presence.
how 40 Reformed pastors were sent to the gallies for years.
I had not heard that this happened in Hungary, but it doesn’t surprise me–the Hapsburgs were not gentle, and the French government was doing the same thing at about the same time.
Slowakians and Czechs also know how the Hussites, followers of the evangelical Jan Hus were also cruelly exterminated during an Inquisition of their own.
Again, are you using “Inquisition” broadly to mean any religious persecution? And while the Hussites were persecuted at various points, I would not say that they were “exterminated” as if they were just rounded up and massacred. It’s also hard to talk about the Hussites as a whole, because the Utraquists, the revolutionary Taborites, and the nonviolent Unity of the Brethren were quite different from each other and naturally had very different relationships to the state.

You have not increased your credibility around here by citing the “Jesuit Oath” which is known to be a forgery (it is recorded in the archives of Congress because some Congressman quoted it at some point–the idea that this confers credibility on it is utterly absurd).

Edwin
 
You might know Richard Peter Bennett who was a former Catholic priest for 22 years, and who has done extensive research on the history of the inquisition. He says that 75 popes in a row from 1203 to 1808 (compared to only 6 years of the holocaust!!!) all upheld and refined the torture methods of the inquisition where many millions of Protestants, amongst others of different faiths were exterminated in many countries.
“Many millions of Protestants”?

Um, Matthew, the entire population of the whole of Europe had around 75 million people in 1300, and only reached 150 million by 1800. What was the Catholic Church doing, importing people from other planets to kill?
I find this unbeleivable, and if only even a small part of this is true, then we must all start seriously considering where we are and what Rome is up to.
Regards, Matthew C
I find it equally unbelievable, because you seem to be swallowing the bigoted anti-Catholic hogwash that people like Ian Paisley are vomiting out, which has absolutely no basis in reality.

What, precisely, is your purpose in posting here, Matthew? To inform the Catholics how horrible the mean ole Catholic Church is? If so, you’d better get some better sources to back you up. The ones you’ve quoted so far (and seeing what you’ve used for sources in English, I can only assume that the ones you’re using in Hungarian are equally off-base) are so full of holes that you’re never going to convince anybody who knows anything at all about the subject that you’re right and they’re wrong.
 
Well, you had me wondering until you put this “little ditty” up. Does the same web-site that gives you all your other information offer up this tidbit as well? This comes from the “oldie but goodie” files!

That’s also a good touch. Plant that seed, that if it’s not totally true, it “has to have some grain of truth” and therefore it condemns the Jesuits.

Good day, Matthew.
Well, as far as I know groups like Opus Dei and the knights of Columbus still have this oath. This oath can be found all over the internet. It’s a good thing to know so we can guard against the Jesuits.

I get my information from several different sources, also, I am a former Catholic, so I have inside experience.
 
I’m glad you find “The Jesuit Oath” unbelievable because it IS – completely unbelievable, inauthentic, and an entire fabrication and forgery. geocities.com/okc_catholic/articles/jesuit_oath.html
Well, I don’t understand then. You’re saying that the library of Congress is absolutely good for nothing, then?

The oath was filed in 1883, did present day rules apply to filing documents way back in 1883?

T’he Jesuit Oath of Induction is also recorded in the Congressional Record of the U.S.A. (House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913, pp. 3215-3216)

source:members.aol.com/gregscv/jesuit.htm
 
Well, as far as I know groups like Opus Dei and the knights of Columbus still have this oath. This oath can be found all over the internet. It’s a good thing to know so we can guard against the Jesuits.

I get my information from several different sources, also, I am a former Catholic, so I have inside experience.
Please have better information than, “As far as I know”.

You insult us and you insult the Jesuits with this information. And if you had “inside experience”, you would have led off with it rather than relate false stories as the “Gotcha” headline.
 
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