Intelligent Design

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Hi, Zundrah -

Comparing my number of posts with your number of posts, I am quite honored by what you just wrote to me. Thank you. You have just made my day and maybe my whole week.😃

God is love,
Don
If you keep flattering me my head will eventually never fit through another doorway! 😃
 
Except you are equating the modern classification of species with the number of genetic kinds needed.
We currently have both salt and fresh water fish do we not? Neither of which can survive in an environment of the other kind?
 
Of course proving a negative is impossible- For example, you can’t prove that it’s impossible for a human being to live to the ripe old age of 2149. But if I told you I knew someone who had done so, you would be wise to enlighten me as to the basics of human biology.

For example, if someone were to tell me that a global flood took place and all of the currently surviving species were stored on an ark, I might be wise to ask how salt water species of fish survived. Or why the rapid temperature shifts in water didn’t kill of other species. And what kind of ark can support creatures from so many climate zones?

That sorta thing.
Well, sir -

If you told me that you knew somebody who was 2,149 years old…I would remember that, ā€œIt is appointed to man to die but once and after that is the judgementā€ and I would remember both OT prophets and NT Jesus resurrected the dead…it’s is conceivable that one resurrected by an OT prophet or by the Lord could still be alive. I would wonder if you were referring to one of those.
So much for that rhetorical question.

Oh, BTW Immanuel Velikovsky in either his When Worlds Collide or his Ages in Chaos, reported several different finds of exterminated fish fossils from a terrible flood. So, many salt water species of fish did not survive, Charcadon Megaladon (a 30’ long shark) among them. There’s for that example.
What makes you think that other species weren’t killed off by rapid change of water temperature? There you go with another negative supposition.
Ah, the Ark. A big one. I assigned the value of 18" (agreed length of standard cubit) to the cubits by which the ark was measured. It was as big as a WWII aircraft carrier’s size above the water line. That is, I’m not including the aircraft carrier’s draft in comparison to the ark. I sometimes wonder if the story of the ark were a synopsized report of a type of ship. I’m content that Peruvian flood stories, Sumerian flood stories, Chines flood stories, etc., indicate a global deluge. Sumerian and Chinese stories have arks, too.

God loves you,
Don
 
If you keep flattering me my head will eventually never fit through another doorway! 😃
Well, Zundrah -

That wasn’t my intent. So, I’ll back off: it was my day, not my whole week, that you made. snicker.

God is love,
Don
 
Do you know which came first?
Not a clue- but if this is a set up to the claim that fish could properly diffuse and re-adapt to such an extreme extent in such a short period of time… I’d recommend not.
 
What makes you think that other species weren’t killed off by rapid change of water temperature? There you go with another negative supposition.
Evolution is slow- 100% of salt-only species would have been killed off, along with those unfortunate enough to be accustomed to water much warmer than that of rain. Had that happened, we wouldn’t have such a wide variety of temperature specific fish/both salt only and fresh only fish.
Ah, the Ark. A big one. I assigned the value of 18" (agreed length of standard cubit) to the cubits by which the ark was measured. It was as big as a WWII aircraft carrier’s size above the water line. That is, I’m not including the aircraft carrier’s draft in comparison to the ark. I sometimes wonder if the story of the ark were a synopsized report of a type of ship. I’m content that Peruvian flood stories, Sumerian flood stories, Chines flood stories, etc., indicate a global deluge. Sumerian and Chinese stories have arks, too.
God loves you,
Don
I’ve yet to hear any story claim the ark was big enough to have multiple climate zones
 
Well, Zundrah -

That wasn’t my intent. So, I’ll back off: it was my day, not my whole week, that you made. snicker.

God is love,
Don
Aww… no!
.^…^
(>…<)
.*****
(")…(")
 
Not a clue- but if this is a set up to the claim that fish could properly diffuse and re-adapt to such an extreme extent in such a short period of time… I’d recommend not.
Hi, Tim190 -

Since amphibious crocodiles are said to have survived from the age of dinosaurs, I’d say some salt water and some fresh water fish did survive the deluge.
Some professor has really given you a hard time, heh?

God is love,
Don
 
Well, sir -

If you told me that you knew somebody who was 2,149 years old…I would remember that, ā€œIt is appointed to man to die but once and after that is the judgementā€ and I would remember both OT prophets and NT Jesus resurrected the dead…it’s is conceivable that one resurrected by an OT prophet or by the Lord could still be alive. I would wonder if you were referring to one of those.
So much for that rhetorical question.

Oh, BTW Immanuel Velikovsky in either his When Worlds Collide or his Ages in Chaos, reported several different finds of exterminated fish fossils from a terrible flood. So, many salt water species of fish did not survive, Charcadon Megaladon (a 30’ long shark) among them. There’s for that example.
What makes you think that other species weren’t killed off by rapid change of water temperature? There you go with another negative supposition.
Ah, the Ark. A big one. I assigned the value of 18" (agreed length of standard cubit) to the cubits by which the ark was measured. It was as big as a WWII aircraft carrier’s size above the water line. That is, I’m not including the aircraft carrier’s draft in comparison to the ark. I sometimes wonder if the story of the ark were a synopsized report of a type of ship. I’m content that Peruvian flood stories, Sumerian flood stories, Chines flood stories, etc., indicate a global deluge. Sumerian and Chinese stories have arks, too.

God loves you,
Don
…and did you know that there are frozen oceans, even frozen waves?

www1.sulekha.com/mstore/umarvind/albums/default/ANTARCTICA%20FROZEN%20WAVES%202.jpg

thecontaminated.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ice-wave-6.jpg

majorhitwaves.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/frozen-wave-2.jpg
 
Not a clue- but if this is a set up to the claim that fish could properly diffuse and re-adapt to such an extreme extent in such a short period of time… I’d recommend not.
As the waters receded salt water would have been left. As time went on they became fresh and the fish adapted along with it.
 
Evolution is slow- 100% of salt-only species would have been killed off, along with those unfortunate enough to be accustomed to water much warmer than that of rain. Had that happened, we wouldn’t have such a wide variety of temperature specific fish/both salt only and fresh only fish.
Imho, you base your statement on the late nineteenth uniformtarianist theory, championed by Charles Darwin, that evolution is slow. Robert Gold, a twentieth century biologist, has observed some biological mutations occuring suddenly, not gradually. A lot of current evolutionists accept that the catastrophic theory of evolution (the other nineteenth century theory, contending with uniformtarian theory) also has some merit; I think that the current view accepts that observed evolution has both catastrophic and gradual components.
Imho, that ā€œ100% of salt-only species would have been killed off,ā€¦ā€ stands as your unproven speculation. I respectfully reply with my unproven speculation, that not all fish were killed off. True, many were destroyed, in the deluge. On the other hand, we’re talking about the most profuse environment of life on earth…the oceans and seas. I submit that many types of fish, both salt and fresh water, survived. Consequently, we do have, ā€œā€¦such a wide variety of temperature specific fish/both salt only and fresh only fish.ā€
imho.
I’ve yet to hear any story claim the ark was big enough to have multiple climate zones
Please, don’t put words into my mouth. I never meant to imply that. My reply gave the example of my impression, from more than one story about more than one ark,of several arks in different climates.
If I contradict church teaching, then I will retract my opinion.

God is love,
Don
 
Hi, Ricmat and Zundrah -

I enjoy the older editions of my Holy Bible. The forwards and introductions do support divine revelation and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

I think that Science was not put here to bash God nor His Holy Bible, but to learn about the glories of His Creation and how to serve mankind. This rouge, or renegade, or Anti-Christ ā€˜science’ has strayed from it’s purpose. ā€œEducationā€, either without or against God, has little truth. These persecutions will pass. They are merely propaganda of the postmodern talking heads…or deceits of the Devil.

You may rest assured that both OT and NT miracles were real events. God still does miracles to this very day. These rouge ā€˜scientists’ are ready and able to shred any evidence we offer, or to totally reject it as irrevelant. (I can’t find a spell check. Oh, well.) They would do better to remember that religion was the cradle of science.

Science is so very young, just a few centuries of organized and tabulated data. Religion, on the other hand, has enduring and eternal truths to teach and has done so for thousands of years. Science and its scientists would do better to respect their religious elder, rather than bash, shred nor gainsay it.

God is love,
Don
Don, here is a history of science I put together that may be of interest to you;

Having reconciled Aristotle’s philosophy with Christianity, next it was time to correct other ideas of the Greek scholar in the light of Christian revelation. This occurred on March seventh 1277AD, when Etienne Tempier, Bishop of Paris banned 219 propositions of Aristotle’s from the University at Sorbonne, the leading place of education at the time. For example, aware that ā€˜it is impossible to make something out of nothing’; now called The First Law of Thermodynamics, Aristotle reasoned the universe must always have existed. The Old Testament however reveals that the world has not always existed but had a beginning in time when God created it. Here then, in 1277, theology asserts itself over the rational ideas of man. Other myths, shared by all the major pagan cultures including the Hindus, the Chinese, the Aztecs, the Egyptians, the Babylonians as well as the Greeks, were also eliminated from the Sorbonne, myths such as Animism (that the world is an animal); Pantheism (that the world and God are the same thing); Astrology (that the movement of the stars influence happenings on earth, and Cyclic History (that all events in history repeat themselves exactly in time). — See Why Did Science Start: Christian Order April 2001, pp. 210-222.

With the myths now exposed by revelation true science began. By 1330 Professor Jean Buridan corrected Aristotle’s false physics of inertia. Aristotle used ā€˜intelligences’ to push celestial bodies whereas Burdian said

ā€˜Since the Bible does not state that appropriate intelligences move celestial bodies it could be said that it does not appear necessary to posite intelligences of this kind because it would be answered that God, when He created the world moved each of the celestial orbs as he pleased, and in moving them He impressed in them impetuses that moved them without His having to move them any more except by the method of general influence whereby He concurs as a co-agent in all things that take place; ā€œfor thus on the seventh day He rested from all work that He had executed by committing to others the actions and the passions in turn.ā€ And these impetuses which He impressed in the celestial bodies were not decreased nor corrupted afterwards, because there was no inclination of the celestial bodies for other movements…’

Aristotle’s ā€˜intelligences’ however were not that far fetched. Saints have said that God puts His angels in charge of nature to oversee His concursus and especially to maintain the perfection of His cosmos (geocentric of course) in their movements that guarantee man a means to measure time itself.

It was Galileo who removed God from inertia and Newton completed the Devil’s promptings with his ā€˜Laws of gravitation’ in which matter moves itself without the need for God’s concursus or initial action with the created bodies. Thus the heliocentric heresy that removed God from science and his creation. Science does not need God’s (name removed by moderator)ut any more.

Now let us see where science without revelation has led man today:

An eternal universe has returned.
An infinite universe has returned.
Nature evolved by itself and the survival of the fittest
Man evolved with an animal soul in a life and death struggle before Adam
With De Chardin Pantheism has returned
Astrology is rampant today to make up for the discarded religion of millions.
Cyclic history has returned (the Steady State theory I think it is called, as opposed to the big Bang theory.

Yes, back to pagan myth.
 
Well, All -

I have found this refreshing, and have formed some views along the way about things I hadn’t thought about before. However, I think I’ll exit for today and come back tomorrow.

God is love,
Don
 
We currently have both salt and fresh water fish do we not? Neither of which can survive in an environment of the other kind?
Not quite correct tjm. Salmon for example go from fresh water to salt water all the time as do other kinds of fish. I fish for them. Hope I haven’t upset anyone’s argument.
 
Not quite correct tjm. Salmon for example go from fresh water to salt water all the time as do other kinds of fish. I fish for them. Hope I haven’t upset anyone’s argument.
I’m aware and you have not. However, we do have both some fish that can only survive in salt water and some that can only survive in fresh water, yes or no?
 
For example, if someone were to tell me that a global flood took place and all of the currently surviving species were stored on an ark, I might be wise to ask how salt water species of fish survived. Or why the rapid temperature shifts in water didn’t kill of other species. And what kind of ark can support creatures from so many climate zones? That sorta thing.
More difficultly, how did only 40 days of rain fill the earth to a depth of 29,051 feet?
 
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