Intense jockeying on gay issues precedes the upcoming synod

[gilliam]

VATICAN CITY A global meeting of Catholic bishops on the family, known as a synod, is due to start on Sunday with interest groups already jockeying to have their voices heard.

The status of gay Catholics is among the most fiercely debated.

Pope Francis has been hailed by some gay rights groups as creating a more welcoming Church, particularly with his “Who am I to judge?” comment back in 2013.

But for many gay Catholics, the first synod on the family held last year ended in disappointment. A working document released midway through the three-week conference suggested that the Church adopt a more open approach, but the final report toned down that language. Francis insisted the issue be included for future debate, however, and many bishops at the synod are on record calling for more openness to gays and lesbians.

A lot has happened in the LGBT debate globally in the past year. Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, legalized gay marriage by popular vote in May. In June, the US Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal. Meanwhile in Italy, gay couples continue to have no legal rights.

cruxnow.com/church/2015/10/03/intense-jockeying-on-gay-issues-precedes-the-upcoming-synod/

 

[ARSpade]

Ireland’s predominantly Catholic in the same way I’m predominantly Irish - in a vague historical sense with few real day to day connections.

 

[FollowChrist34]

VATICAN CITY A global meeting of Catholic bishops on the family, known as a synod, is due to start on Sunday with interest groups already jockeying to have their voices heard.

The status of gay Catholics is among the most fiercely debated.

Pope Francis has been hailed by some gay rights groups as creating a more welcoming Church, particularly with his “Who am I to judge?” comment back in 2013.

But for many gay Catholics, the first synod on the family held last year ended in disappointment. A working document released midway through the three-week conference suggested that the Church adopt a more open approach, but the final report toned down that language. Francis insisted the issue be included for future debate, however, and many bishops at the synod are on record calling for more openness to gays and lesbians.

A lot has happened in the LGBT debate globally in the past year. Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, legalized gay marriage by popular vote in May. In June, the US Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal. Meanwhile in Italy, gay couples continue to have no legal rights.

cruxnow.com/church/2015/10/03/intense-jockeying-on-gay-issues-precedes-the-upcoming-synod/

If someone could please explain to me how this lobby for all intents and purposes is any different from a SISR lobby (straight irregular sexual relationships: fornication (unchastity) / contraception / abortion / objectification of the other), I would be most grateful.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

What exactly are they expecting? We can’t go against Catholic teachings. I think the media has really twisted people’s consciences.

 

[JimG]

"LGBT activism has already had a “long pattern” of disrupting Christian groups in the United States, said John Lomperis, the United Methodist director at the ecumenical think tank Institute for Religion and Democracy. “It appears that they see American churches as institutions that can be usefully hijacked for their political agendas, or else torn apart if they refuse to get with the program,” said Lomperis.
. . . .
“It is critical to not be naïve about the nature and the unprincipled tactics of the movement to silence church disapproval of homosexual practice as well as extra-marital sex more generally,” he continued. “Never make the error of thinking that any appeasement of such activists will accomplish anything beyond making things far worse and more difficult for your church in the long run.”

Read more: ncregister.com/daily-news/ahead-of-the-synod-lgbt-activists-lobby-bishops-and-heres-their-wish-list/#ixzz3nXLW3lRz

 

[Augustine]

Perhaps those deluded by the enemy that the Church will come around about embracing homosexuality as normal, as some politicians have done, are bound for a sound disappointment. I pray that their disappointment be devastating, for sometimes one has to reach bottom, as deep as the hardness of his heart, to bounce up and have a glorious conversion.

This might also be the official end of the honeymoon between the moonbats and their version of Francis.

Pax Christi

 

[Neofight]

What exactly are they expecting? We can’t go against Catholic teachings. I think the media has really twisted people’s consciences.

You are right. However, there have been a fair amount of Catholics outside the media who have done their own twisting. I see no reason for the amount of fear mongering, hand wringing that’s been going on in anticipation of this synod.

 

[Sy_Noe]

But once you are baptized Catholic, you are considered Catholic forever–right?
This is what I keep reading on this forum.

When they tally how many people of each religion there are in the world, all the Catholics in Ireland are counted as Catholic, are they not?

They may be lapsed or they may not be good or devout, but they are indeed Catholic nonetheless, I imagine.

.

Right. You present the Catholic Church’s answer correctly.

 

[Sy_Noe]

They have made a few suggestions.
One is to soften the language linked to homosexuals used in the teachings.
(There’s another thread on this topic).

It would make people of homosexual orientation feel more welcome in the church, but it doesn’t change teaching or doctrine.

.

and right again. You are 2 for 2.

 

[Mongo]

But once you are baptized Catholic, you are considered Catholic forever–right?
This is what I keep reading on this forum.

When they tally how many people of each religion there are in the world, all the Catholics in Ireland are counted as Catholic, are they not?

They may be lapsed or they may not be good or devout, but they are indeed Catholic nonetheless, I imagine.

.

Not exactly. Baptism is the sacrament of initiation. It is common to other Christian churches and communions. All those who are baptized are part of the church to an extent even though they aren’t part of the physical body. Someone who was baptized catholic and then became baptist isn’t a catholic, they are a baptist.

 

[DlandFan06]

They have made a few suggestions.
One is to soften the language linked to homosexuals used in the teachings.
(There’s another thread on this topic).

It would make people of homosexual orientation feel more welcome in the church, but it doesn’t change teaching or doctrine.

.

I don’t think the softening would help. Contrary to the fact, it would be a dangerous thing. What most gays want is a recognition of their lifestyle(i.e. gay sex and gay marriage). That’s what they want and the softening of the language would just lead gays to believe that the Church is accepting of their lifestyle and then eventually open the door for gay marriage in the Church. That’s what they would think.

 

[Paganus]

Not exactly. Baptism is the sacrament of initiation. It is common to other Christian churches and communions. All those who are baptized are part of the church to an extent even though they aren’t part of the physical body. Someone who was baptized catholic and then became baptist isn’t a catholic, they are a baptist.

There is only one church (ecclesia), aka the Catholic Church. All validly baptized Christians are members of the one church. Other church-like bodies may call themselves “churches”, but are actually ecclesial (church-like) communities.

A validly-baptized Christian might call themselves “Baptist”, and seek to follow the teachings of one of the many “Baptist” ecclesial communities, but they are sacramentally members of the Catholic (universal) church.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Not exactly. Baptism is the sacrament of initiation. It is common to other Christian churches and communions. All those who are baptized are part of the church to an extent even though they aren’t part of the physical body. Someone who was baptized catholic and then became baptist isn’t a catholic, they are a baptist.

“The Code of Canon Law currently does not recognize that someone can leave the Catholic Church. You might become a non-practicing member, but the Church’s laws consider anyone baptized Catholic to always be Catholic.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12648280&postcount=2

 

[Megan7]

"LGBT activism has already had a “long pattern” of disrupting Christian groups in the United States, said John Lomperis, the United Methodist director at the ecumenical think tank Institute for Religion and Democracy. “It appears that they see American churches as institutions that can be usefully hijacked for their political agendas, or else torn apart if they refuse to get with the program,” said Lomperis.
. . . .
“It is critical to not be naïve about the nature and the unprincipled tactics of the movement to silence church disapproval of homosexual practice as well as extra-marital sex more generally,” he continued. “Never make the error of thinking that any appeasement of such activists will accomplish anything beyond making things far worse and more difficult for your church in the long run.”

Read more: ncregister.com/daily-news/ahead-of-the-synod-lgbt-activists-lobby-bishops-and-heres-their-wish-list/#ixzz3nXLW3lRz

Jim, Great link, thanks:thumbsup: God bless you!

‘And in the last days, men will not tolerate sound doctrine but will heap up for themselves teachers, who proclaim what their itching ears long to hear’ 2 Timothy 4:3

+PAX

 

[Mongo]

There is only one church (ecclesia), aka the Catholic Church. All validly baptized Christians are members of the one church. Other church-like bodies may call themselves “churches”, but are actually ecclesial (church-like) communities.

A validly-baptized Christian might call themselves “Baptist”, and seek to follow the teachings of one of the many “Baptist” ecclesial communities, but they are sacramentally members of the Catholic (universal) church.

The Orthodox Churches are Churches in the fullest sense of the word. Read any Catholic writing on the subject and it will say so. Calling every Christian a sacramental member of the Catholic Church isn’t accurate. There is a visible boundary of the Catholic Church, and baptism isn’t necessarily enough to make a person a part of it. The Catholic Church doesn’t include heresy and schism. A Lutheran or a baptist isn’t a catholic even if he has some kind of spiritual union with the Church. There is one Church and it is visible.

 

[zz912]

What exactly are they expecting? We can’t go against Catholic teachings. I think the media has really twisted people’s consciences.

You have to understand, they don’t believe the Church was built by God. They believe it is purely a human creation, a political machine built by man. And they believe that it is just like all manmade creations, in that it can be changed with enough political pressure.

They simply don’t recognize the supernatural nature of the Church. They don’t realize they are fighting against God.

 

[Augustine]

‘And in the last days, men will not tolerate sound doctrine but will heap up for themselves teachers, who proclaim what their itching ears long to hear’ 2 Timothy 4:3

Or, what’s more likely in our times, specifically the current synod on the family, the teaching will remain the same, unchanged, but the pastoral practice will change, weakening the teaching. This is precisely what’s happened with the teaching against artificial birth control.

Prayer and fasting, Our Lord recommends for such cases.

Pax Christi

 

[Paganus]

The Orthodox Churches are Churches in the fullest sense of the word. Read any Catholic writing on the subject and it will say so.

The Orthodox are members of the One True Church in every sense except formality. They have the sacraments, but have abandoned the Bishop of Rome for the Bishop of Constantinople. Well, that didn’t work out too well so now it’s the Bishop of Moscow or somewhere else. It’s sad. I am looking forward to our reconciliation. I am willing to attend Masses in Greek if that’s what it takes.

Calling every Christian a sacramental member of the Catholic Church isn’t accurate. There is a visible boundary of the Catholic Church, and baptism isn’t necessarily enough to make a person a part of it. The Catholic Church doesn’t include heresy and schism. A Lutheran or a baptist isn’t a catholic even if he has some kind of spiritual union with the Church. There is one Church and it is visible.

There is a distinction between formal membership and sacramental membership. A validly baptized Christian is a member of Christ’s Church - of which there is only One. If he formally joins some other worship group, God love him, but he remains sacramentally a member of the One True Church, even if has no formal recognition of that fact. There are no other Churches. There is only One True Church. One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I don’t think the softening would help. Contrary to the fact, it would be a dangerous thing. What most gays want is a recognition of their lifestyle(i.e. gay sex and gay marriage). That’s what they want and the softening of the language would just lead gays to believe that the Church is accepting of their lifestyle and then eventually open the door for gay marriage in the Church. That’s what they would think.

Clearly if we fail to loudly and emphatically proclaim at every opportunity that homosexuality is an abomination and sodomites unless they repent they will burn in the fires of Hell forever then sodomites will believe their filthy and vile actions are not a horrific evil on par with rape and abortion.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Clearly if we fail to loudly and emphatically proclaim at every opportunity that homosexuality is an abomination and sodomites unless they repent they will burn in the fires of Hell forever then sodomites will believe their filthy and vile actions are not a horrific evil on par with rape and abortion.

Such bitter bile in that post! Lighten up, Joie. You are capable of making a kinder better argument. Plus the other poster is not exactly without a point.
,