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Bookcat
Guest
Choosing to commit adultery
Choosing to murder someone
Choosing to steal $100,000
Choosing to desecrate a Church
Choosing to skip Sunday Mass without excusing reason
Choosing to murder Jews in Nazi Germany
Choosing to Lie in Court
Choosing to Beat up your Mother
Choosing to do any sort of grave matter…
The CHOICE is already grave matter…(it is an “internal action”) even if one changes ones choice…or is prevented from doing so…
Sin can happen in ones will without carrying it out in external action…
and if done (chosen…in ones thoughts) with full knowledge and complete consent…such can thus be a mortal sin.
We are talking about a deliberate consent here…not some…thought that just comes or goes through ones head…the person above has deliberately “Chosen to murder so and so” …but then they do not carry it out…
Just cause some thought comes to one…does not mean there is any sin…for one needs to consent etc…(see my post on thoughts…and those with scruples and anyone for that matter…do not scruple about thoughts…forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7164250&postcount=22)
Choosing to murder someone
Choosing to steal $100,000
Choosing to desecrate a Church
Choosing to skip Sunday Mass without excusing reason
Choosing to murder Jews in Nazi Germany
Choosing to Lie in Court
Choosing to Beat up your Mother
Choosing to do any sort of grave matter…
The CHOICE is already grave matter…(it is an “internal action”) even if one changes ones choice…or is prevented from doing so…
Sin can happen in ones will without carrying it out in external action…
and if done (chosen…in ones thoughts) with full knowledge and complete consent…such can thus be a mortal sin.
We are talking about a deliberate consent here…not some…thought that just comes or goes through ones head…the person above has deliberately “Chosen to murder so and so” …but then they do not carry it out…
Just cause some thought comes to one…does not mean there is any sin…for one needs to consent etc…(see my post on thoughts…and those with scruples and anyone for that matter…do not scruple about thoughts…forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7164250&postcount=22)
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
I couldn’t disagree more.
First of all, Jesus said that the man committed adultery IN HIS HEART, not in action, 2 very different things. To highlight this difference, Jesus goes on to explain that if there is something that causes us to STUMBLE (not FALL), then we need to take care of it BEFORE it causes us to fall from grace and merits hell. That is the point of Matthew 5.
Here it is again:
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
See? Jesus is saying that looking at a woman lustfully is a stumbling block, not a mortal sin in and of itself (of course, except when such lustfulness takes over one’s thoughts entirely and voluntarily, at which point it becomes the sin of covetousness, which IS a deliberate action and a serious sin). Jesus is warning us to nip these sins in the bud SO AS NOT TO TURN A STUMBLE INTO A FALL. The language is pretty clear on this.
The reason that deliberate lust (which is essentially treated in the 10 commandments as coveting your neighbor’s wife) is considered a mortal sin is because lust itself is an action. True lust is an internal action that is condemned by the Bible. The same DOES NOT and CANNOT apply to EXTERNAL actions such as murder or missing Mass on a Sunday. Those things require deliberate physical action on the part of the individual. Now of course, if a person shot a gun intending to murder someone and missed, then that person would still be guilty, probably of mortal sin, simply because that person actually TOOK ACTION intending to kill another human being.
One can fully intend to miss Mass on Sunday and then, through the prompting and grace of the Holy Spirit, see the error in this and make the decision to go at the last moment. This is NOT a mortal sin. God’s grace has intervened here to prevent the person from falling, period. At the very most, this amounts to a venial sin.
Also, you may say that there are degrees of mortal sin, but the bottom line is that mortal sin is mortal sin. It separates the sinner from God permanently. There are no worse consequences than this.
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Bookcat
Guest
The understanding that is proposed here is not in keeping with the understanding within the Catholic Church…and Catholic Moral Theology. Interior sins can all be mortal sins…without any exterior action…and not only lust…but any grave thing…I couldn’t disagree more.
First of all, Jesus said that the man committed adultery IN HIS HEART, not in action, 2 very different things. To highlight this difference, Jesus goes on to explain that if there is something that causes us to STUMBLE (not FALL), then we need to take care of it BEFORE it causes us to fall from grace and merits hell. That is the point of Matthew 5.
Here it is again:
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
See? Jesus is saying that looking at a woman lustfully is a stumbling block, not a mortal sin in and of itself (of course, except when such lustfulness takes over one’s thoughts entirely and voluntarily, at which point it becomes the sin of covetousness, which IS a deliberate action and a serious sin). Jesus is warning us to nip these sins in the bud SO AS NOT TO TURN A STUMBLE INTO A FALL. The language is pretty clear on this.
This is not how the Catholic Church and Catholic Moral Theology reads this…the whole point is the person has ALREADY FALLEN…BY HIS INTERIOR SIN…AND YES LUST IS A MORTAL SIN… yes Jesus further warns against near occasions of mortal sin…but that is a further point
The reason that deliberate lust (which is essentially treated in the 10 commandments as coveting your neighbor’s wife) is considered a mortal sin is because lust itself is an action.
Yes Lust is in interior action of the will…yes you are correct here…it is an “action” OF THE WILL …and is mortal
True lust is an internal action that is condemned by the Bible.
The same DOES NOT and CANNOT apply to EXTERNAL actions such as murder or missing Mass on a Sunday.
Actually yes it does.by the way …I have a degree in Theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville…and am reasonablly versed in Catholic Moral Theology…but you do not have to accept my word…you do no know me…but just go read in various works of (Orthodox) Catholic Moral Theology …what I am relating here is simply the case.
Those things require deliberate physical action on the part of the individual. Now of course, if a person shot a gun intending to murder someone and missed, then that person would still be guilty, probably of mortal sin, simply because that person actually TOOK ACTION intending to kill another human being.
as already explained…no “taking action” externally required. A person who decides to murder a person with full knowledge and full consent…it is already a mortal sin…
One can fully intend to miss Mass on Sunday and then, through the prompting and grace of the Holy Spirit, see the error in this and make the decision to go at the last moment. This is NOT a mortal sin. God’s grace has intervened here to prevent the person from falling, period. At the very most, this amounts to a venial sin.
Again as already explained such is a mortal sin if all the condiitions are there…yes it is good they repented …but they need to go to confession
Also, you may say that there are degrees of mortal sin, but the bottom line is that mortal sin is mortal sin. It separates the sinner from God permanently. There are no worse consequences than this.
Actually there is …worse state of mortal sin…and worse effects in hell if the person dies like that with out returning to the state of grace…and worse “temporal punishment”
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Bookcat
Guest
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
(128 note --is Mt 15:19-20…)
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#III
Again…if one goes and reads Moral Theology in varied good sources…one will find that one can commit a MORTAL sin one ones thought alone…and that this includes things like desiring to murder…or choosing to murder and then later changing ones mind etc…
1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
(128 note --is Mt 15:19-20…)
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#III
Again…if one goes and reads Moral Theology in varied good sources…one will find that one can commit a MORTAL sin one ones thought alone…and that this includes things like desiring to murder…or choosing to murder and then later changing ones mind etc…
B
Bookcat
Guest
Compendium of the Catechism --Issued by Pope Benedict XVI
1871-1872
Sin is “a word, an act, or a desire contrary to the eternal Law” (Saint Augustine). It is an offense against God in disobedience to his love. It wounds human nature and injures human solidarity. Christ in his passion fully revealed the seriousness of sin and overcame it with his mercy.
1873
There are a great many kinds of sins. They can be distinguished according to their object or according to the virtues or commandments which they violate. They can directly concern God, neighbor, or ourselves. They can also be divided into sins of thought, of word, of deed, or of omission.
A distinction is made between mortal and venial sin.
1874
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
1875
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
- What is sin?
1871-1872
Sin is “a word, an act, or a desire contrary to the eternal Law” (Saint Augustine). It is an offense against God in disobedience to his love. It wounds human nature and injures human solidarity. Christ in his passion fully revealed the seriousness of sin and overcame it with his mercy.
- Is there a variety of sins?
1873
There are a great many kinds of sins. They can be distinguished according to their object or according to the virtues or commandments which they violate. They can directly concern God, neighbor, or ourselves. They can also be divided into sins of thought, of word, of deed, or of omission.
- How are sins distinguished according to their gravity?
A distinction is made between mortal and venial sin.
- When does one commit a mortal sin?
1874
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
- When does one commit a venial sin?
1875
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Other examples of interior sins which can be mortal (several of these can be venial matter or grave matter…depending…others are grave matter namely lust or desiring to murder):
“Rash Judgment”
“Lust”
“envy”
“Covetousness”
“hatred” ( to the point of desiring to do him great harm see CCC 2303)
etc
but again one need not look to such things that are often “Interior” one need only make an “interior choice”…to commit some grave matter…and do so with full knowledge and deliberate consent. Even if a person later repents…they (all things being equal) have already committed a mortal sin.
Mortal sin can be purely interior.
(again those with scruples or others for that matter…read my link about thoughts forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7164250&postcount=22)
“Rash Judgment”
“Lust”
“envy”
“Covetousness”
“hatred” ( to the point of desiring to do him great harm see CCC 2303)
etc
but again one need not look to such things that are often “Interior” one need only make an “interior choice”…to commit some grave matter…and do so with full knowledge and deliberate consent. Even if a person later repents…they (all things being equal) have already committed a mortal sin.
Mortal sin can be purely interior.
(again those with scruples or others for that matter…read my link about thoughts forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7164250&postcount=22)
T
Thoughtfulone
Guest
We will never agree on this. Of course you can sin through thought, but 90% of the time, those sins will be venial in nature, except when they involve a purely internal sin such as lust. Don’t believe me? Go to confession and tell any priest that you decided not to go to Mass but then changed your mind and went anyway and see what he has to say about it. Most likely, you will get a little lecture on scrupulosity.
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Bookcat
Guest
I invite you to research further for what I state in these posts is the case theologically in the Catholic Church.
As for what some being venial sins…yes some things are venial matter and some things are grave matter. (we were talking about grave matters here…not venial)
And of course other factors can lead to a lack of full knowledge or full consent…(and thus even though it be grave matter…one did not commit a mortal sin)
If a person goes to confession and says that he committed a mortal sin by deciding not to go to mass (for he had full knowledge and full consent) but that later he changed his mind and went. The priest should give him a penance and absolve him of his mortal sin …
If he gives him a little lecture on scrupulosity then either he misheard the person…or there is more to what the person said that gave him the understanding that it was just a passing thought that he did not consent to…or he needs to go back for more studies in moral theology…
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fbl9
Guest
What changed the mind to go to mass? Guilty conscience?
If one did no wrong what was there to be guilty of?
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Thoughtfulone
Guest
Well, in my personal experience, what has changed my mind in situations like this has been just knowing that it is wrong not to go to mass and that even if I have other things going on, or I am tired or whatever, I should do my best to make it.
My real belief here is this: If I “decided” not to go to mass and then changed my mind, then that decision obviously did not have full consent of my will, right? If that decision had had full consent of my will, then I would have gone through with the decision not to go. How can one have full consent of the will if one does not follow through? I submit that one cannot.
Here is what usually goes through my mind when I am debating whether or not to go to mass: I’m a mother of a 1-year-old and I stay at home and care for him all day. I make him all of his meals from scratch (preferably organic, no pre-packaged junk), we go to the park on most days, I clean the house, give him his bath, make dinner for the family, and collapse into bed every night as soon as his head hits the pillow. I do this on Sundays as well. Often, I take my son by myself to Mass, where I stand in the vestibule holding him because he refuses to let me sit without wiggling and crying. I spend the hour chasing him around the vestibule because he also refuses to be held for the whole hour, so most of the time, I cannot hear or participate in what is happening in the mass and it is nearly impossible for me to focus and pray, even for a moment. Needless to say, this is exhausting.
So yes, on some days I may think to myself, “I just want one Sunday where I don’t have to put up with this, and I don’t get anything out of the Mass anyway because I spend the entire time wrestling with a toddler instead of worshiping God and being truly present anyway, so I’m just not going to go today”. Well, 9 times out of 10, I realize that this is not so much to deal with and that the right thing for me to do is just to suck it up and go and just be thankful that I HAVE this amazing child to wrestle with during mass regardless of whether or not I actually get anything out of it spiritually.
Well, I might as well not even bother because apparently according to people here, I have already committed a mortal sin, so I might as well just stay home and at least get something out of it, like a break for a change.
I’m sorry I sound so frustrated, but this is ridiculous! I TRY, really TRY to be a good person and do the right thing and go to confession every few months, Mass every week, etc., for what? Because apparently, I’m pretty much always in a state of mortal sin, so what’s the point? I guess all I can really hope for is that at the moment of my death, God will have mercy on me, because there is no way I’m getting into Heaven with the above criteria. I would have to go to confession every single week and confess these stupid little thoughts. No thanks. I’m scrupulous enough as it is!
Prayers to God that he is not as strict as some of the people who make up His Church, otherwise I’m screwed.
F
fbl9
Guest
As it has been posted already to miss mass without an excusable reason. ie, one would rather go to the beach instead.is not a excusable reason.
To me it seems you do have grounds for an excusable reason.
Without full knowledge of the situation it is harder to determine just what is going on.
My opinion is why stand in the vestibule stay where you were. i know this may seem selfish but if people can’t hear they can move to the empty pews up front.
To me it seems you do have grounds for an excusable reason.
Without full knowledge of the situation it is harder to determine just what is going on.
My opinion is why stand in the vestibule stay where you were. i know this may seem selfish but if people can’t hear they can move to the empty pews up front.
B
Bookcat
Guest
My real belief here is this: If I “decided” not to go to mass and then changed my mind, then that decision obviously did not have full consent of my will, right?
Now if one really gave full consent with full knowledge …yes that is mortal sin…the fact that one ‘changed ones mind’ is NOT an indication of not having had full consent. Of course we can not know what went on in your will…and YOU may very well have been just struggling with temptation…
If that decision had had full consent of my will, then I would have gone through with the decision not to go.
such is not the understanding in moral theology…it does not follow that it was not full consent…but again…you may very well NOT have given full consent…but just had a feeling or thought etc that was not deliberate/full consent
How can one have full consent of the will if one does not follow through? I submit that one cannot.
Catholic Moral Theology differs with you here…for one can…but yes a person may “think” something was “consent” when it was really not…and scruple about it…
Well, I might as well not even bother because apparently according to people here, I have already committed a mortal sin, so I might as well just stay home and at least get something out of it, like a break for a change.
I am relating the theological point …that one can commit a mortal sin by choosing a grave matter with full knowledge and complete consent …even if one changes their mind. This is simply the case theologically. Not addressing if you personally have committed a mortal sin…
This “Moral Theology Forum” so we talk here about moral theology…
I’m scrupulous enough as it is!
In such a case …it is important to have a regular confessor who can help you with your scruples…
By the way…remember temptation is different thing from consent. A person may be tempted to not go to Mass…but not actually give full consent (those with scruples often confuse this point) …for a mortal sin to happen…one must have not only grave matter …but also full knowledge (one knows what one is doing for example) and deliberate consent…full consent!
As for the Sunday obligation…if one has a real difficulty here…perhaps spouses can trade off…or if this is not possible …one can get a dispensation from ones pastor…it is of course very important to get to Mass…and very important to seek to “live” the Lords Day in joy-- which can be difficult for one with a 1 year old… (I too have a 1 year old (14mo)…and they can be quite trying on nerves!!! so is feel for the difficulty).
W
wjp984
Guest
Don’t worry, I think Bookcat is one of those ultraconservatives that even the conservatives on here would think is too conservative. It’s not a sin if you change you mind. It’s a temptation.
However, never think that being in a state of mortal sin gives you a license to sin more mortally at no expense because it doesn’t matter anymore. Well I suppose in theory it wouldn’t matter if you are going to Hell anyways, but considering God is merciful, deciding to reject God’s mercy by deciding to further mortally sin for the heck of it can only make things worse.
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Bookcat
Guest
I am not an “untra-conservative” You think wrong here.
I am a Catholic. I think with the Church. I think only with the Church and according to orthodox Catholic Theology. My degree in Theology is from Franciscan University of Steubenville and I am yes completely faithful to the Church…to the Successor of St. Peter. Yes I love Pope Benedict. Such is not untra-conservative (which is really a political term not a theological one) such is Catholic. If the Church permits some view or some theology or way of life…I permit it. I seek to think with the Church…
(…of course I may argue in favor of the idea’s of Cardinal Ratzinger over the ideas of other theologians etc…we all have our likes and agreements in the wide field of orthodox theology…)
As for the question at hand what I stated in this thread is simply Catholic Teaching and/or Catholic Theology.
W
wjp984
Guest
Perhaps I used the wrong term so if you can think of a better one, feel free to state it. I do not think one has sinned if they change their mind before committing the act. If you do, then you have a more conservative opinion than me on this issue. I shoud have used the phrase: I think bookcat has a more conservative opinion than most conservatives on this one particular issue. I am sorry if I have mislabeled you and just so you know, I do not think being conservative is bad, in fact, I tend to lean conservative on most issues across the political and religious spectrums.
This is generally a faithful to the Church Catholic forum and I usually tend to trust it. However, I sincerely believe that more people who classify themselves as on the conservative side agree more with my opinion, that changing your mind before you sin, is not a sin.
I agree with an earlier poster that a priest would probably give a lecture to a person about being scruptulous if they were to confess being tempted about skipping mass and entertaining the thought, even missing early masses, but later changing one’e mind and going to a late mass.
I apologise if you were offended but I want to make it clear that there are other faithful to the Church Catholics who disagree with your opinion. As far as I know, we are free to disagree on this issue as we must all follow our own conscience. I think it’s great that you are as faithful as you appear to be to the Catholic Church but there are other acceptable opinions on this issue.
This is generally a faithful to the Church Catholic forum and I usually tend to trust it. However, I sincerely believe that more people who classify themselves as on the conservative side agree more with my opinion, that changing your mind before you sin, is not a sin.
I agree with an earlier poster that a priest would probably give a lecture to a person about being scruptulous if they were to confess being tempted about skipping mass and entertaining the thought, even missing early masses, but later changing one’e mind and going to a late mass.
I apologise if you were offended but I want to make it clear that there are other faithful to the Church Catholics who disagree with your opinion. As far as I know, we are free to disagree on this issue as we must all follow our own conscience. I think it’s great that you are as faithful as you appear to be to the Catholic Church but there are other acceptable opinions on this issue.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
It is really scary to know what constitutes mortal sin. But then again, we know it is a sin when we start to try to justify it (our action). So you are right in most cases though I tend to disagree on some aspects. It depends on each instance and each case have to be judged accordingly. In some cases although it is a mortal sin to have the intention, it is even bigger sin to actually commit it. So they are not exactly the same. In some as others rightly say, it may be just temptation. I have very often wanted a person dead, really dead, in my anger, but I never really took a gun and actually shot him. I would confess this (during Confession) as a sin but I know that I did not commit murder which would be something bigger considering the adverse consequence it would have done to me and to the family of the person.
I also believe this – I thought I saw it in one of the posts – God intervenes sometimes in our life so that we will not commit the sin even though we have the intention.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
No wonder then that we have to work towards the purity of heart for it is from the heart that sins originate.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.Mt 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.Mt 5:8
T
Thoughtfulone
Guest
Thank you for this. It is really nice to know that not everyone here sees this as a mortal sin.
Ultimately, I believe that if someone decides to miss Mass but then “can’t go through with it”, then that person, as you said earlier, has resisted a temptation, not committed a mortal sin. Obviously, full consent of the will was not present here, otherwise, the person would have skipped Mass altogether.
I get a bit frustrated on this forum from time to time when it seems like people are of the point of view that instead of trying to help people get INTO heaven, the rules of the Church are almost designed to keep people OUT. Personally, I believe that God is merciful, and allows us to change our minds even up until the last minute, and will often give us the strength and grace to do so if He sees that we are particularly weak on a certain day or regarding a certain issue. At least, I hope so
B
Bookcat
Guest
Thanks for apologizing (In discussing these things it was a matter of “discussing Moral Theology” …I did not intend to “offend” anyone either …so if I did…my apologies as well for any fault on my part…)
In some things…yes there are is “room for opinion” …various schools of Theology etc…but …what I stated here I would say is not one of of those areas (in the principles etc involved…let me explain more…)
A person can sin mortally “just interiorly” that was my first point. This is clear.
Second point is that a person who makes a choice to not go to Mass on a Sunday or Holy Day of Obligation (without either dispensation or excusing reason) …if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent…has already committed a mortal sin. Same thing with other areas like "one choose to murder someone with all the qualities needed for mortal sin) Even if they change their mind later…this is already a mortal sin. This too is clear. This is how such is understood in moral theology etc
Now subjectively as I noted…a person may not really do this…my just have some passing thoughts with out these qualities …or is just tempted etc…and thus do not commit a mortal sin…(so in this sense a person could ‘change their mind’ and not commit mortal sin…for they have not made that choice with full knowledge and complete consent…but were struggling with temptation etc)
Likewise as I noted a person who is scrupulous or has some difficulty with scruples …and easily confuse things here…especially confuse emotions or temptations with deliberate consent etc…they need to follow their confessor and the advice given them.
As for the term “Ultra-conservative” I take this to mean …things should not change…etc…but really “conservative” and “Liberal” are “political terms”.
And that term is often taken in a “negative way”…as being “stuck in time” etc …often complaining about the Church or the (wonderful) work of Vatican II or they may seek to be “more Catholic than the Pope” as the saying goes …such is not me.
I am Catholic --“With the Pope” and obedient to him
What is important is that as Christians we “think with the Church”. This is simply being Catholic. This is what I endeavor to do. (though of course I like anyone can make a mistake!) But yes with complete faithfulness to the Church and especially to the Pope…(though not without my sins and my own need of constant reform)
Yes I have my particular loves in the Church…Sacred Scriptures (Particularly the Gospels,the Acts and the Letters of Paul, Peter and John) Pope Benedict XVI’s writings (even not as Pope), Jacques and Raissa Maritain, De Lubac, the Carthusian Order, The Early Christians (espec. the Martyrs etc etc etc…I have particular styles of art and architecture …particular Romanesque…particular times…the Early Church, the Middle Ages and the time of St. Thomas More (and him!)…and our time now with Pope Benedict XVI! etc
There are many “orthodox” Schools of Thought and forms of Spiritual life within the Church …whatever is “Catholic” within the teachings and discipline of the Church is what I “permit” (for lack of a better word) though I do have my particular loves and way as noted…
I set out to follow Jesus of Nazareth in complete faithfulness to his Church…as that Church understands it …yes with my own spirit and personality…but always seeking the “renewal of my mind” as Paul and Pope Benedict XVI mention…
This is a great reading: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html (make sure you read it to the end)
May the grace and blessing and peace of Christ be with you and all!
Let us all live in Christ!
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