Intercession of Saints in Scripture

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Agathon

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Don’t get me wrong. I’m a Catholic from the cradle who believes in the communion of saints. But is there ANY directive in Scripture that we should pray to them?
 
Here’s the problem people have… they read Sacred Writing but they refuse to accept what Scriptures say… do you recall the imagery of the huge labor intensive field? Jesus, the Incarnate Word, Who is God and existed with God from the Beginning, did not just simply go out and gather thousands/millions of followers but actually stated this:
10 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. (St. Luke 10)
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Jesus could well have said, ‘the harvest is plentiful, I’m going to get more people to help you preach to them.’ Yet, instead, Jesus asked His disciples to intercede on behalf of humanity so that God, through their intercessory prayer, would send more workers to the field.

Consider too how St. Paul not only states that he prays for others but he asks them to pray for him–again the Communion of the Saints in effect.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
In 2 Maccabees 15:12-16, the Scriptures explain a vision of Judas Maccabeus where he witnesses a deceased holy man, Onias (a former high priest) praying for the Jewish community.
 
Do you remember the Wedding at Cana? When the Most Holy Virgin noticed there was no more wine, she talked to Jesus about this and He converted the water in wine. That’s exactly what happens everytime we are in trouble or we need something, she hears our prayers and intercedes for us before Our Lord. I think this applies for all Saints.
 
Jeremiah talks about how the saint Rachel intercedes for her children and is heard by God, who addresses Rachel with comforting words. (Rachel is long dead and in her tomb, and Jeremiah is passing by the tomb.)
'Thus says the Lord:

'“On high was heard a voice of lamentation, of mourning and weeping, of Rachel weeping for her children, and refusing to be comforted for them, because they are not.”

'Thus says the Lord:

'“Let your voice cease from weeping, and your eyes from tears. For there is a reward for your work,” says the Lord, "and they shall return out of the land of the enemy.

‘“And here is hope for your last end,” says the Lord, “and the children shall return to their own borders.”’

(Jeremiah 31:15-17)
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Mintaka said:
Jeremiah talks about how the saint Rachel intercedes for her children and is heard by God, who addresses Rachel with comforting words. (Rachel is long dead and in her tomb, and Jeremiah is passing by the tomb.)
'Thus says the Lord:

'“On high was heard a voice of lamentation, of mourning and weeping, of Rachel weeping for her children, and refusing to be comforted for them, because they are not.”

'Thus says the Lord:

'“Let your voice cease from weeping, and your eyes from tears. For there is a reward for your work,” says the Lord, "and they shall return out of the land of the enemy.

‘“And here is hope for your last end,” says the Lord, “and the children shall return to their own borders.”’

(Jeremiah 31:15-17)
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God here tells Rachel to stop crying. However, the text doesn’t say Rachel was interceding on behalf of her children. That’s not what I’m discussing. I’m asking if there is any biblical directive to pray to the saints.
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And then Onias says Jeremiah has also been praying for them.
 
It should also be noted that it is through our incorporation into Christ and unity in the Holy Spirit, and the saints participating through Christ in the divine nature, that allows this to be possible. This was not all fully revealed until likely Pentecost and would not have gotten into full swing until after the deaths of the early martyrs after most of Scripture was already written. This is why the explicit evidence for this truth is in the glimpse of Heaven we see in the book of Revelation–the last book written that is included in the Bible.
 
When you put it that way, is there any Scriptural directive to call God the Triune God or the Holy Trinity or the Bible the Holy Bible… there is however a directive given to Cephas by Jesus: ‘Simon, you are Cephas/Kephas and on this rock I will build my Church; here, I give you the Keys of the Kingdom; whatever you tie on earth will be tied in Heaven and what you loosen on earth will be loosen in Heaven.’ (paraphrased)

Jesus Delegated His Authority to the Church and He promised that He and the Holy Spirit would remain with the Church.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Advocates of the doctrine say that Jesus’ parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19–31 indicates the ability of the dead to pray for the living

On the basis of Christ’s intercession for believers, who is present at the Right hand of God (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25), it is argued by extension that other people who have died but are alive in Christ may be able to intercede on behalf of the petitioner (John 11:25; Romans 8:38–39).

Aquinas quotes Revelation 8:4: “And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel”.[4]

Both those for and against the intercession of saints quote Job 5:1
 
Saint Abraham interceded before God on behalf of Sodom.

Moses interceded for his people when they were battling the Ishmalites and many other times, of course.

They are kind of like saints. 🙂
 
jcrichton said:
When you put it that way, is there any Scriptural directive to call God the Triune God or the Holy Trinity or the Bible the Holy Bible
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Scripture leans toward the affirmative since we have examples of people praying to the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Do we see any such directives given in regards to the saints?
 
Agathon said:
I’m asking if there is any biblical directive to pray to the saints.
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I don’t believe so. We see that there are examples of those who have passed on to the next life with whom we can communicate, but the only “directive” is James 5:17
“The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much,”

Since we know those in heaven are the most “righteous”, we ask them for their prayers. Asking others to pray for us is not mandatory. It is an Apostolic practice. The earliest evidence we have are inscriptions on the tombs.
Agathon said:
God here tells Rachel to stop crying.
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The importance of this is, along with the references in the Book of Revelation, is that Rachel is alive and well, and is aware of what is happening on earth. This is also demonstrated when God allows Samuel to speak with Saul. He is clearly aware of events that occurring here on earth, as well as what is about to happen.
 
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You have totally missed the point. Not once in Scriptures is there a mention of a ‘put to ink my Gospel and make a collection of Holy Books into a single compilation and call it the Holy Bible.’

Nor is there any hint at ‘I shall be known as the Holy Trinity.’

These are development, along with the Doctrinal Teachings and the Fighting against heresies, that arise as the time/moment demands it.

So the perspective a Believer should have is that Jesus Delegated His Authority to the Church and Sent her the Holy Spirit to Bring to her the fullness of the Truth (Unfold His Word), and He Promised that the Holy Spirit would abide with and in the Church, and that He Himself would remain with the Church till the end of times.

The Communion of the Saints is a development of that Unfolding of the Truth.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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Could you answer the question directly instead of dancing around it?
 
If you are asking me, I’ve given you the answer already; I cannot force you to accept Jesus’ Word.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Where does Christ say we are to pray to Saints? Quit dodging the question.
 
Yet…James 5:16 - Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
and
1 Timothy 2:1 - I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Then you have to ask yourself some questions:
  1. Is God’s word Eternal and Everlasting?
  2. If the answer to that question is “Yes”, than Where in God’s word does it tell us to stop praying for one another and offering supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men; after we have departed this world? Especially in light of (Rev. 5:8) ?
 
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