Intercourse only for child making?

[pwlj_christ87]

Hello brothers and sisters,

I have a question, one that has bothered me for a quite of few reasons… i love the church and its precepts and its truth… i would not give up catholicism for anything because of the eucharist…sometimes its hard to read anti-catholic comment… anyways. my question is as follows…

is intercourse only intended for chidl making (obviously the spouses would have had the sacrament of marriage)… or can a wedded catholic couple have intercourse outside of ti… it seems to me that it would be unfair for it only being for children… while that is the function of our bodies is to pro create… that i understand… i also know that you can do it on the menstrual cycle… as long as you intend to procreate…

i would just bleieve it to be unfair to not be able to enjoy the pleasure of intercourse with your spouse … one of the arguments on the protestant site was that in scripture it says that because the husbands body is subject to the wife and the wife to the husband it therefor means that our "desires’ must be fulfilled…

i fully acknowledge the rational thought of procreation and the not wanting to treat your spouse as a object of enjoyment i am trying to wrap my head around the only having sex for children (because if i only want 2… i think im goin tow ant to have intercourse more than that !)

 

[misspriss]

I’m sure someone who is much more eloquent and knowledgeable than myself will respond, but just as I see it you don’t have to be trying to have children, just open to life. If you have serious reasons to avoid, there are church approved ways to avoid children while still enjoying intercourse with your spouse (NFP). Being open to life does not mean actively trying to have children, if that makes sense.

 

[mommamaree]

God’s design includes naturally infertile times each month, during which conception will not occur. People have known about and taken advantage of these naturally infertile times for thousands of years. Of course now, thanks to scientific studies, we can p(name removed by moderator)oint those times with even greater accuracy, so that when necessary, we can be even more sure of the state of our fertility, in order to make prudent decisions. Yes, sexual intercourse is for making babies, but not only that. It also helps form and maintain a strong bond between husband and wife. If God so willed that intercourse was only for making babies, than conception would occur with each and every act of intercourse. But we know this does not happen. We can enjoy sexual intercourse without directly intending a pregnancy, and we can take advantage of infertile times, when conception is unlikely or impossible, and we can have intercourse when already pregnant, and when the woman has passed into menopause. Amazingly, the knowledge that we have today about a woman’s cycle can also help couples to achieve pregnancy.
If you want to learn more about God’s design of cyclic fertility in women, try googling “natural family planning” or NFP. The Church approves of NFP as a way for Christian couples to plan their pregnancies while following God’s plan for married love.
Hope that helps!

 

[pwlj_christ87]

hmm open to life such a vague term?

 

[mommamaree]

hmm open to life such a vague term?

Yes, it is vague, which is why the Church does not use such phase in Her magisterial documents.

The terms the Church uses are: procreative and unitive.

Procreative means natural vaginal intercourse without use of contraception. (It does not mean that the couple must be fertile at the time of the intimate encounter, for example, a woman who has entered menopause can still engage in vaginal intercourse.)

Unitive means that the husband and wife form “one flesh”, and that their engaging in the marital act bonds them.

 

[Bookcat]

Can one have martial relations during the infertile time as well as the fertile?

Yes.

They must be open to life -but that does not mean that they can only have relations during the fertile time. If one intends to avoid a new conception by only having relations during the infertile times - then one needs a serious reason -but one may yes have relations outside of the fertile time and one does not need each time to try to have a child --one has to be though open to life.

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

1. What is the meaning of the conjugal act?

2362-2367

The conjugal act has a twofold meaning: unitive (the mutual self-giving of the spouses) and procreative (an openness to the transmission of life). No one may break the inseparable connection which God has established between these two meanings of the conjugal act by excluding one or the other of them.

1. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

1. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

 

[ynotzap]

Yes its OK to have relations even if conception is not intended, but you must accept it if uou do conceive. To do so you sharing your love, and helping each other to remain pure, to not be tempted to be unfaithful.to each other. You can take advantage of NFP, gaging your menstrual cycles It is is advised to be charitable to each other not to make uncharitable demands from your partner, eg. tired, sick etc. The acts in marriage are meritorious when done within your vocation. God bless you in your marriage.

 

[Bookcat]

Yes, it is vague, which is why the Church does not use such phase in Her magisterial documents.

I would not say it remains vague for -the Church explains what she means --and that phrase * is* used in magisterial documents in various renderings. But yes “unitive and procreative” - it is very good to point out those terms.

 

[mommamaree]

Not vague -the Church explains what she means --and yes that term is used in magisterial documents.

Okay. I stand corrected. I just read your other post which explains this, and it was very good. Open to life is a vague idea, if the Church had not so well explained what is meant by it. I know there are a lot of Catholics who are confused by it. Could you please give the full citation for that quote above? I would like to make note of it for future reference. I don’t know if I had ever heard of the compendium issued by B16. Thanks!

 

[pwlj_christ87]

how does conception not happen each and every time we have intercourse? if semen is left in the vagina will it not travel and create a baby?? i gueess the reason i posted was , it seems we are to only have sex when the wife is on her menstrual cycle

 

[PaulGH]

All that is necessary is that each marital act between husband and wife is open to life. In other words, the husband and wife themselves must not take any action that would deliberately sterilize the act (e.g., use a condom, birth control pills, withdrawal, etc.).

But that does not mean that they must abstain during times when conception is unlikely or impossible, such as during infertile times in the woman’s cycle, or when the woman is already pregnant, or when she is past child-bearing age. There is no moral objection to the couple having relations at such times, even though procreation is unlikely to occur.

 

[PaulGH]

how does conception not happen each and every time we have intercourse? if semen is left in the vagina will it not travel and create a baby?? i gueess the reason i posted was , it seems we are to only have sex when the wife is on her menstrual cycle

You need to learn about natural family planning (NFP). That will answer many of your questions and clear up your misconceptions. In brief, what you have described is not at all an accurate picture of how the female reproductive system works.

 

[pwlj_christ87]

i will learn about NFP but let me get this straight…

if you fail to withdrawal (which is what you rae to do))… than you can avoid having a kid? will nt the semen always get to where it must?

 

[Elizium23]

NFP is not withdrawal. Withdrawal is a disordered form of contraception. Look up Onan in the Old Testament.

The woman is naturally infertile for about three weeks out of four. NFP is information which can be used to take advantage of either the infertile or the fertile periods. Yes, NFP can be used to conceive children. Try using a condom to do that.

 

[phil19034]

how does conception not happen each and every time we have intercourse? if semen is left in the vagina will it not travel and create a baby?? i gueess the reason i posted was , it seems we are to only have sex when the wife is on her menstrual cycle

This is not totally true. A woman can only become pregnant during a few specific times during her cycle. The reason why medicine and secular society teach that you can get pregnant at anytime is because they are trying to limit teen age births without teaching abstinence.

Most women do not have the training to practice NFP. But if they learned, most could do it pretty well.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

how does conception not happen each and every time we have intercourse? if semen is left in the vagina will it not travel and create a baby?? i gueess the reason i posted was , it seems we are to only have sex when the wife is on her menstrual cycle

An Egg is only released to be fertilized for a very short time. 1 or 2 days. Semen can live up to 5 days but more likely 3.
NFP teaches that you can have sex in your non fertile times.

You do know that women have cycles right?

 

[Viki63]

I’d like to underline what Elizium said, because it’s important: withdrawal is not NFP. Withdrawal is not allowed, it’s disordered. Not to mention that it interferes with one’s enjoyment of the marital act.

I’m musing on something you said in your first post:

I am trying to wrap my head around the only having sex for children (because if i only want 2…

You mention that you might only want two children. I wonder why that is? If you are open to life, God might choose to gift you with more than two.
I have five, nearly all adults now. 2 biokids, 2 adopted, 1 stepdaughter, but all I consider my children. If I had limited myself to two, which two would that be?
Would I want to eliminate my artistic, very assertive oldest son?
Or my equally artistic, really funny kid, my second son?
My stepdaughter, with her kind helpful ways and lovely smile and the grandchildren she’s given us?
My third son with the dimples and computer-savvy brain?
My daughter, with her brilliant mind and sensitive nature?

See, I couldn’t give up any of these people – they bring incredible joy to my and my husband’s lives.
I wish I could have had more kids.
If you limit yourself to two, you’re telling God that you know better than He does, and that you don’t want the other people to love that He wants to send you.
Just a thought.

 

[Cojuanco]

This is not totally true. A woman can only become pregnant during a few specific times during her cycle. The reason why medicine and secular society teach that you can get pregnant at anytime is because they are trying to limit teen age births without teaching abstinence.

Most women do not have the training to practice NFP. But if they learned, most could do it pretty well.

Right. The perception that you can get pregnant anytime is an oversimplification that the government tries to instill in kids an aversion to having teenage sex.

 

[edwest2]

About Natural Family Planning:

usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/what-is-nfp/

An important Church encyclical about the regulation of birth in marriage and the value of marital love. It is long but it was issued in 1968 when Pope Paul VI realized that the ‘sex without love revolution’ was occurring and Catholics and men of good will needed to be reminded, for their benefit.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Through the modeling of wrong behaviors in movies and on TV, sex is displayed as separate from being in a committed, loving, married relationship. Sex is pleasurable but it must be open to life. To the world’s next generation.

I was born in the mid-1950s, and the average number of kids in my neighborhood and for miles around was two. There was no birth control pill (approved by the FDA in 1960) or IUDs, spermicidal foam, morning-after pill, etc.

To quote an acquaintance of mine: “I’m not getting married just to have sex.”

Peace,
Ed

 

[Auntie_A]

how does conception not happen each and every time we have intercourse? if semen is left in the vagina will it not travel and create a baby?? i gueess the reason i posted was , it seems we are to only have sex when the wife is on her menstrual cycle

I think it is time for you to read about human reproduction in greater detail. There is an entire cycle of hormonal phases and symptoms where ovulation is beginning, occurs and dies in a woman’s body. And there is a lifespan for sperm that can last up to five days. I won’t give the biology lesson here in its entirety but if you study and think about how it all works, and if you really care about women, as well as men, family, nature, you will begin to marvel at our amazing design, perhaps rethink the “birth CONTROL” aspect of modern medicine, and begin to think about fertility awareness. This will lead to questioning our society’s whole approach to female and male sexuality, birth control and therefore to sexual attitudes.

If we truly understand how our bodies work naturally, we might begin to let go of our resentment about Catholicism (“A bunch of old men telling women what to do with our bodies”) and its approach to sexuality, and instead see the fallout of a secular approach to chemically altering our bodies and creating a sense of birth “control” , while working against nature.

Can you imagine how much progress there would be in medicine if we worked from a viewpoint of nature, fertility awareness, and human respect? Women would have easier monitors of fertility for one. And, if abortion (killing a pre-born human) was not an “option”, perhaps people would be more cautious and respectful in their “attractions” and approaches to sex and marriage.