Interdenominational relationships RCC/JW

[Deacon_Ed]

Jaded,

If I may jump in and interject a couple of things. When you say Fr. Kevin was okay with you and your FI “living together” as long as you don’t “take it to the next level” I presume you mean you are not sleeping together. If this is the case, Fr. Kevin is right – although we generally discourage that because of the temptation. If, however, you are sleeping toghter then that is not alright with the Church.

Just to clarify an issue on the annulment. All attempts at marriage must be examined by the Church to see if a valid marriage was established. It is not, as one poster suggested, an issue of sacramentality. The Church recognizes to kinds of marriages: sacramental marriage which is between two baptized persons (they need not be Catholic) and natural bond marriages which is between two unbaptized persons or a baptized and an unbaptized person. Regardless of the type of marriage, the Church still has to examine it. The examination may result in a formal process or in something less complicated.

BTW, your FI is obligated to make a promise that he will do what he can to raise the children as Catholic. This is no longer as binding as it once was since, for the sake of family harmony, it’s possible that this obligation be removed. Still, it’s a very important factor that should be discussed and understood.

Deacon Ed

 

[b_justb]

Jaded27:

You can’t get married in a KH unless you’re both JWs. And yes, it’s so my FI can have a valid marriage. The kids can get baptized as Catholics and all that but they’ll be going to meetings and church, not just one or the other.

I don’t want to be rude here but, wouldn’t that be rather hard for a child to deal with?

“The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon!” He hears one week at Kingdom Hall. Then the next week he goes to the Catholic Church. Don’t you think that maybe a little confusing on a child?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Jaded27:

You can’t get married in a KH unless you’re both JWs. And yes, it’s so my FI can have a valid marriage. The kids can get baptized as Catholics and all that but they’ll be going to meetings and church, not just one or the other.

Hello Jaded27!

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. I hope all goes well! I was just married two weeks ago.

I see that you have some misinformation about what the Church teaches. My husband and I are both very Catholic and would never have considered living together before our marriage because it is condemed by the Church for two reasons:

1. Even if the couple is not fornicating, the temptation to that is stronger while living together.
2. The couple commits the “sin of scandal” by living together. By their example they are making a statement that living together before marriage is not wrong and leading others into sin.

Couples that live together before marriage are not denied marriage in the Catholic Church, but your priest should have given you materials on it and talked about the effects of living together with you and your fiance. It is not “practice” for being married. In fact, couples who live together before marriage are much more likely to get divorced than those who wait. On your wedding day God will make you and your fiance one, nothing can truly prepare you for that.

As another poster stated, your fiance will promise on your wedding day to raise all the children you have together as Catholics. This does not mean baptizing them Catholic and nothing more, and it certainly does not include taking them to non-Catholic services on a regular basis. He’s promising to teach them about the faith so they can be strong practicing Catholics their whole lives. It’s a very difficult job to do on his own. Does he fully understand that responsibility? Do you understand the implications of that promise? I’m not saying you don’t, but I wanted to make sure that you both understand what it entails as your priest seems to be misinforming you about other things.

God bless.

 

[Jaded27]

Maybe learning both religions may be a bit confusing, but we’ll just have to help them figure it out because they’re not going to just one or the other so that’s that.

Deacon Ed – we’ve discussed all of this thoroughly, yes.

ElizabethAnne – I don’t think our priest has misinformed us. We are living together. We have explained in detail (a level of detail which will not be discussed here because it’s personal) as to why that will not be changing. So while it is not ideal it is what it is and is not changing and as you said, they are not going to deny us marriage because of that.

Also, I really wish everyone would really really pay attention to what I’m going to say next. I’m not trying to be rude, but I have said this many many times so I just want to be clear. Ready?

My FI is a “good Catholic”. He knows that the kids aren’t “just” going to be baptized as Catholics. They have to go to church and CCD and get first communion and all that stuff. We have discussed all of this and he was aware anyway.

So there’s really not much to discuss on that account.

On another note, I should be hearing from the priest tomorrow about whether or not we need the annulment. I’m thinking no. hoping “no” too.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Jaded27:

Also, I really wish everyone would really really pay attention to what I’m going to say next. I’m not trying to be rude, but I have said this many many times so I just want to be clear. Ready?

My FI is a “good Catholic”. He knows that the kids aren’t “just” going to be baptized as Catholics. They have to go to church and CCD and get first communion and all that stuff. We have discussed all of this and he was aware anyway.

So there’s really not much to discuss on that account.

Well, congratulations to your fiance! The promise he makes to the CC to raise his children in the faith is a big responsibility before God. As one other poster suggested, though, it will be very conflicting for them to also be raised in your faith.

I wonder if you have studied anything about the CC? The home page for Catholic Answers has some very good literature in the Library section that may help you to understand the differences between JW and Catholicism. Here is one I found really interesting catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Jehovahs.asp
There are also more, here catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp
I hope you get a chance to read them.

 

[Jaded27]

paramedicgirl:

Well, congratulations to your fiance!

Thanks.

paramedicgirl:

I wonder if you have studied anything about the CC?

Yes. I also had a three hour religious discussion with a priest about it. I’ve looked into it. My parents were also both Catholics who left the church. And my whole extended family is Irish Catholic. Doesn’t get much more “Catholic family” than that.

 

[Jaded27]

Well, this sucks. We talked to fr kevin last night and he said we have to go through the annullment. It’s a respect thing for my religion. Since it was still a religious ceremony and we believe in Jesus the annullment is necessary.

So I have to drop off my questionaire today and before I can do that I have to go an hour away to get my marriage certificate from my old town. I still have my divorce one thank goodness. Don’t know what happened to the marriage certificate. I needed it to get divorced, but it’s disappeared now. . .

The only good news is they said the diocese is not very backed up now at all with annullments so ours should go through quickly. I had to come up with four witnesses who knew me during my marriage. Kind of tough since I don’t really talk to any of my JW friends anymore. Great. . .

So that’s that. Guess we’ll have even MORE interesting discussion on this thread as I go through this wonderfully fun process. I just about sobbed last night when they toldd me. We can’t reserve the church until the paperwork goes through. ::sigh::

 

[carol_marie]

Sorry Jaded. That is a drag. But it sounds like you’re going to get the ball rolling so maybe all the paper work will be in place by this time next year… (weren’t you thinking Oct ‘06?) The important thing is pick witnesses that were not only aware of your situation w/ husband #1 - but also people who will quickly & with detail, fill out the questions. Two of my husbands’ witnesses really poked around and it dragged out the process. Would your parents fill it out for you? And maybe a sibbling? You could really bug them until it’s done…

It’s a setback for sure… but don’t worry, it will all work out.

 

[Jaded27]

Hi CM,
Yes, I picked four witnesses that would really keep the ball rolling. I don’t know who my ex will pick. He’ll probably really drag his feet on it.
I can’t have my parents do it because I don’t think they’d be keen about helping something having to do with the church. And I have no siblings.
Even the four people I picked (all friends of mine who knew and were sort of friends with my ex) really didn’t know how miserable I was in my marriage so who knows how much help they’ll really be.
I’m so nervous. I just want to know it’s going to go through in time. It’s going to cost us $450 too but they said they’d work with us. I don’t know if that means waive it or do it in payments or something. We’ll see.
Yes, our date is oct. 7th of next year. But still. . .if anything gets dragged out this could take longer than a year from now. I’m really disappointed and stressed out to the max right now. This is just one more thing to add to my list of things to worry about today.
I know it’ll work out eventualy . . . it’s just tough. I’m really depressed right now about the whole situation.

 

[JP_Augustine]

Jaded27:

Hi CM,
Yes, I picked four witnesses that would really keep the ball rolling. I don’t know who my ex will pick. He’ll probably really drag his feet on it.
I can’t have my parents do it because I don’t think they’d be keen about helping something having to do with the church. And I have no siblings.
Even the four people I picked (all friends of mine who knew and were sort of friends with my ex) really didn’t know how miserable I was in my marriage so who knows how much help they’ll really be.
I’m so nervous. I just want to know it’s going to go through in time. It’s going to cost us $450 too but they said they’d work with us. I don’t know if that means waive it or do it in payments or something. We’ll see.
Yes, our date is oct. 7th of next year. But still. . .if anything gets dragged out this could take longer than a year from now. I’m really disappointed and stressed out to the max right now. This is just one more thing to add to my list of things to worry about today.
I know it’ll work out eventualy . . . it’s just tough. I’m really depressed right now about the whole situation.

Hi Jaded,

I’m in the same boat, except that I have to deal with TWO marriages. Have a meeting with my priest next Friday to sort things out, but I know it’s going to be tricky, especially with regard to marriage #1 with the JW.

Getting witnesses for mine is going to be tough, too. I can only think of two people who might be willing to help me, and so far, only one has indicated that they’re willing to do so.

Hang in there…my fiancee’ is with you in the “feeling depressed” department.

It WILL, however, all work out!!

God always provides…always.

Many blessings,
JPA

 

[Jaded27]

JP Augustine:

Getting witnesses for mine is going to be tough, too. I can only think of two people who might be willing to help me, and so far, only one has indicated that they’re willing to do so.

Yea, I’m in that situation kind of. I thought of four people, and they said okay, but I don’t know how happy they are about it. lol.
JP Augustine:

Hang in there…my fiancee’ is with you in the “feeling depressed” department.

Good to know I’m not alone on that account.

 

[JP_Augustine]

Jaded27:

Yea, I’m in that situation kind of. I thought of four people, and they said okay, but I don’t know how happy they are about it. lol.

Good to know I’m not alone on that account.

Are the four people all JWs? If so, it could get dicey, since they might kinda freak out when a document comes from your diocese. Hopefully not, though!

Funny thing is: I signed up for this when I became Catholic…but, ya know, I understand why the Church does this, so I accept it.

That’s not to say that this is going to be fun, though…

Keep us appraised as to how it’s going!

JPA

 

[Jaded27]

NONE of them are JWs. I really lucked out in being able to think of four people who aren’t. whew. So no problems there.

 

[CARose]

Jaded,

I’m sorry to learn that you will need to go through the entire annulment process. Argh! I will pray that process moves forward smoothly and with the results you desire. It would be great if you and your fiance’ were able to have your wedding when you want it, and in the Church!

I’m glad to see that you’re working towards meeting these Church requirements, even when you don’t accept the Church as having any direct authority in your life. It’s great to see you doing this act of sacrifice for your future husband. To a large degree, this is exactly what it takes for a marriage to be successful in the long term, the ability of each party to put the needs of their spouse before their own needs.

Oh, I know you live together, will live together, etc., your call. But you stated that you thought it improves the odds of your marriage lasting. I once thought that was true myself, but have since learned that the statistical odds of divorce are significantly higher among couples who first lived together.

Having been quite surprised when I first learned this, I’ve pondered on the possible “why” quite a bit. What I’ve come to as a likely cause is that if you are living together before getting married, you’re less likely to act on cold feet that may actually be telling you that things aren’t looking so good for the long term. Jumping ship when you’re already living together is a major disruption in your living arrangements, as opposed to going forward slowly and steadily towards the date of formal commitment, after which the major life changes begin (moving into a shared living situation).

I think it’s the same thing as sleeping with someone before marriage. Once that step has been taken, the relationship consumated, the individuals (especially it seems the woman) are less likely to ask “is this the right relationship?” and more likely to work towards “how can I make this relationship right?”. The second question applied too soon can leave a person tied to a difficult relationship for a lifetime, or scarred by a divorce instead.

Not to say that your relationship isn’t absolutely the right one for the right people. I’m really not judging, heck I don’t know you, your fiance’ or how the two of you interact other than the fact that you tell us you’re right for one another. Who am I to suggest otherwise? I’m not and I wouldn’t suggest it.

Wishing you all the best as you move forward.

God Bless,

CARose

 

[Jaded27]

Hello. Thanks for the well wishes.

I don’t think I ever stated precisely that I think living togethger improves your marriage. If I did, I do apologize because I didn’t mean it that way. I would never have lived with ANYone before marriage, but there were extenuating circumstances.

I totally agree that living together and being financially tied to one another can make you ignore the “cold feet” feeling. But my FI and I have actually been through a period like that already where we really had to sit down and examine if this was right for us or if we were just staying together because our bank accounts were “living together” too. We decided it was the former.

We sat and talked with our priest again tonight (“our priest”. sounds funny to me a bit still. lol) and turned in all our paperwork for the annullment. I’ll be praying for it to go through quickly. Hopefully Jehovah will just see that I am trying to correct my life and get married and live the right way and be happy and will ignore that fact that he doesn’t require a catholic annullment to do that. I think that if we all believe in the same type of god, it’s obvious the answer will be that he is glad we are trying to fix our lives.

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. I’ll keep you updated. It should get interesting tomorrow when I call my ex to tell him what’s going on so that he won’t be shocked by the questionaire. Fun fun.

 

[CARose]

Good luck with that. I’ll add a prayer that the call goes well. (I know if I were in your shoes right now, the butterflies in my stomach would be the size of hawks).

God Bless,

CARose

 

[b_justb]

Well, I’m going on vacation for about a week. I’ll check back in when I get back.

 

[Jaded27]

b_justb:

Well, I’m going on vacation for about a week. I’ll check back in when I get back.

Have fun! Wish I was going on vacation. . .

 

[paramedicgirl]

Jaded27:

I think that if we all believe in the same type of god, it’s obvious the answer will be that he is glad we are trying to fix our lives.

Actually, Catholics believe that Jesus IS God, and JW’s believe that Jesus is St Michael the Archangel. We also believe in the Holy Trinity. How then, do you plan to raise your children in both faiths? There will be so many contradictions the children won’t know which way is up.

The Catholic Church can and most likely will refuse to baptize your children if they are to be raised as JW’s. Unless of course, you find a very liberal priest.

I only mention this because it is something to consider before your marriage, not after. It looks like you are open to discussing with your fiance the realities of the problems you will encounter by having a mixed marriage. That in itself is a very good sign.

 

[jediliz]

paramedicgirl - jaded said that her fiance has already agreed to raise the children catholic - more than baptism, but also CCD, etc.