Interdenominational relationships RCC/JW

[ElizabethAnne]

Jaded27:

I’m not ignoring. Just saying that we’re getting married either way and that we’ve talked about all these things with each other, our families, our religions, so on and so forth. We’re not going to not get married so. . . it’s a pointless thing to discuss and debate on here. I’m not going to listen to anyone tell me I shouldn’t marry my fiancee, the love of my life. No one should expect that they EVER know enough about a person or about the world to have the knowledge and wisdom to tell anyone that.

That’s why I skim those posts and usually don’t bother replying. Because whatever happens, happens. We’re not going to call off the wedding due to raising kids. Sorry.

Jaded,

You say you’re not ignoring, and then you say you skim… It really does seem that you are either ignoring or misunderstanding oru concerns. I never said you should not marry your fiance! How presumptuous of me would that be! I would really encourage you to reread my post because I never even implied that you should call off the wedding.

I only hoped that you would think hard about the issue of raising your children in both faiths. Although you have dismissed it as “no big deal,” I raised a number of legitimate concerns with this idea.

But more importantly, you and your fiance have made the decision to get married in the Catholic Church. That means he is required to raise his children in the Catholic faith. As I said, “I would encourage you to think seriously about the fact that by raising your children in both faiths, your husband will break his promise to the Catholic Church and actively go against his faith.”

If he is already planning to go back on a promise to his Church on his wedding day, why does he want to get married in the Church at all? (You of course do not have to answer the question, but I would say that his inconsistancy raises a lot of questions).

God bless you.

 

[kim_wilson]

Jaded27:

Ah, but see with scientology you get stuff that’s worth paying for. Um, hello! Flying to other planets to build communities on them? I want to go to Mars!!

ha ha ha

 

[paramedicgirl]

Jaded27:

I’m sorry, but is there some personal reason that you keep harping on this? )

Not a personal reason, but a spiritual one. When God entrusts us with the soul of a child, it is the most awesome responsibliity a parent can ever have. We have a God-given duty as parents to raise that child to know God, to believe in God and to help fully develop their faith. To take that responsibility lightly is an injustice to the child, and displeasing to God.

Jaded27:

I honestly don’t see the big deal. We won’t be having holidays and birthdays in our house and they’ll only be at church on sundays. they’ll be at meetings three times a week, for the most part.
I guess if they get really confused then they’ll just be in the faith that we have more time for and the of the parent who is more dedicated to it. Not that my FI isn’t dedicated, but I DO attened ALL my meetings EVERY week so if this became an issue they’d just go with me to meetings and be JWs.

You’re right,you’ve convinced me this totally isn’t possible and I guess they’ll just have to be JWs and not Catholic.

(If anyone can’t see the sarcasm in that post. . . .look again. lol)

If you really don’t see this as a big deal, then I suggest that you consult a priest about it. It could be an impediment to your marriage. You have worked so hard to get your wedding to this point, it would be very disapointing to find out that there is an issue that needs to still be dealt with.

 

[b_justb]

I go on vacation and they drop the sub-forum. Why am I not in charge?

So, it looks like annulment and serious concerns as to the promises that need to be taken in reference to raising any children that might be given in the Catholic faith. I thought this might be a sticking point.

Interesting, to say the least.

 

[kage_ar]

If I may add, Catholic children do more that attend Mass on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation. When Catholic children do not attend Catholic school, they receive weekly training (called CCD or RE). These classes meet on Sunday or a weeknight, depending on the Parish. The classes run concurrent with the school year, and the children receive instruction in the Faith. Attendance in these classes prepare the children for the Sacraments (our diocese requires 2 years prep for 1st Communion and 2 years for Confirmation), and are an important part of the commitment to raise children in the Faith.

Your children will attend these classes, and these classes also reflect the Liturgical Year, so – during Advent, the children will have many activities that lead up to the celebration of Christmas, the same for Lent and Easter (we also do a big deal for All Saints/All Souls in our classes).

As a CCD teacher, I have some children in my classes from mixed faith homes. I can tell you that these children have less interest in the classes, many times seem angry, and the questions they ask lead me to think they see Faith and Religion as unimportant. When it is visibly difficult for children in similar faith homes (Catholic/Methodist for example), how much more confusing will it be for children exposed to opposing doctrines.

Prayers for you both! (Maybe your FI could give us a bit of his side)?

 

[Jaded27]

kage_ar:

Prayers for you both! (Maybe your FI could give us a bit of his side)?

He’s not the message board type. lol.

I don’t know. I guess it’s just something we’ll work out.

There are SO MANY things you can’t plan for in a marriage and family and all that. I’m sure that even if we plan this out to the very last drop (CCD, meetings? no meetings? etc.) that there will always be changes that need to be made and situations we need to adjust to.

Surely that makes sense to you all.

I cannot defend my decisions because only basic ones have been made thus far. I understand what my FI is promising on our wedding day. Good to go with that.

In other news - meeting with fr easygoing (or whatever you all are calling him) tonight. I have to cut drinks with my girl friends short tonight to go meet with him. lol. (Seriously, I don’t even drink. Just going out to a quick dinner before our appointment.)

I got my first letter from the tribunal yesterday. I had to just sign it and send it back. Seems like a waste of time. They should include that in the intial paperwork. They’re killing me here. No wonder this can take a year or more. Geez. So we’re thinking of overnighting it with a note saying we want this to get done as expeditiously as possible. Augh.

Anyway, it’s the weekend. Thank goodness or I would be going nutty. I just startyed a new job this week (at the same company. just a different dept.) and I’m going crazy at it. I need a break! lol.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Jaded27:

He’s not the message board type. lol.

I don’t know. I guess it’s just something we’ll work out.

There are SO MANY things you can’t plan for in a marriage and family and all that. I’m sure that even if we plan this out to the very last drop (CCD, meetings? no meetings? etc.) that there will always be changes that need to be made and situations we need to adjust to.

Surely that makes sense to you all.

I cannot defend my decisions because only basic ones have been made thus far. I understand what my FI is promising on our wedding day. Good to go with that.

In other news - meeting with fr easygoing (or whatever you all are calling him) tonight. I have to cut drinks with my girl friends short tonight to go meet with him. lol. (Seriously, I don’t even drink. Just going out to a quick dinner before our appointment.)

I got my first letter from the tribunal yesterday. I had to just sign it and send it back. Seems like a waste of time. They should include that in the intial paperwork. They’re killing me here. No wonder this can take a year or more. Geez. So we’re thinking of overnighting it with a note saying we want this to get done as expeditiously as possible. Augh.

Anyway, it’s the weekend. Thank goodness or I would be going nutty. I just startyed a new job this week (at the same company. just a different dept.) and I’m going crazy at it. I need a break! lol.

Jaded,

I think it precisely your lack of decisions that people are concerned about and hope that you and your fiance will talk about a bit more. Especially the CCD meetings, which are not optional in raising children in the Catholic faith.

While I understand that it must be really difficult to wait for the annulment paperwork to come back (I am prone to chronic impatience myself), maybe you can find a way to look at it more positively. As much as you want to get married, you and your fiance can do that the rest of your lives, so enjoy this stage of your relationship while it lasts! It must be good or you wouldn’t be marrying him .

Maybe it’s a chance to grow in patience or God is preparing you in other ways for your upcoming marriage. Maybe He is calling you to grow closer to Him while you and your fiance wait for the wedding. Be open to what He wants to tell you in the coming months!

God bless you.

 

[Jaded27]

ElizabethAnne:

While I understand that it must be really difficult to wait for the annulment paperwork to come back (I am prone to chronic impatience myself), maybe you can find a way to look at it more positively. As much as you want to get married, you and your fiance can do that the rest of your lives, so enjoy this stage of your relationship while it lasts! It must be good or you wouldn’t be marrying him .

Maybe it’s a chance to grow in patience or God is preparing you in other ways for your upcoming marriage. Maybe He is calling you to grow closer to Him while you and your fiance wait for the wedding. Be open to what He wants to tell you in the coming months!

God bless you.

While I appreciate your point of view and totally understand what you’re trying to say, I don’t totally agree.
FIrst of all, “my” god does not require this process of me. So I feel I am close enough to him wihtout having to go through this. With Witnesses, as long as it’s a legal divorce that’s good enough for them.

Plus, we are waiting on A LOT in our lives for this marriage to be “approved”. We can’t have kids (my mom had five miscarriages before she had me so if it’s going to be difficult I want to start trying soon), we can’t get a house ( we need to save money for the wedding THEN the house. not that we’re doing much for the wedding either. . .), lots of things hang on this decision. So I guess I am a little impatient because it’s my whole life hanging on this.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Jaded27:

While I appreciate your point of view and totally understand what you’re trying to say, I don’t totally agree.
FIrst of all, “my” god does not require this process of me. So I feel I am close enough to him wihtout having to go through this. **With Witnesses, as long as it’s a legal divorce that’s good enough for them. ** (

Jaded, can you please tell us where this is mentioned in the bible? How did Witnesses come up with their doctrine on divorce?

 

[Jaded27]

paramedicgirl:

Jaded, can you please tell us where this is mentioned in the bible? How did Witnesses come up with their doctrine on divorce?

Not off the top of my head. Besides the scriputures which tell you to do things in accordance with the law. That’s what I did. I got a divorce. Now I am divorced. But according to the church I’m not.

I’m not making fun of the way you guys do things here or trying to pick a fight about it. I’m just saying that to JWs, civil divorce law is good enough. This is the way catholics do it and because it’s important to my FI I am doing it this way. But it’s frustrating that I got a divorce in a shorter amount of time (MUCH shorter) and for less money and yet the law is not “good enough”.
yes I’ve heard the arguments for religious annullment because you have to delcare that God recognizes the marriage as being invalid.
But that doesn’t follow MY beliefs is all I was saying.

If you’re a JW and get divorced, you’re divorced. No big long process with your religion. If it’s legal it’s legal. Plain and simple. Just like I am getting married in the church, but since it’s legal with a marriage license and everything the Elders at my Kingdom Hall will recognize it as a real marriage. I don’t have to get it approved after the fact or anythign like that. If you’re married - you’re married. If you’re divorced - you’re divorced. simple.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

Not off the top of my head. Besides the scriputures which tell you to do things in accordance with the law. That’s what I did. I got a divorce. Now I am divorced. But according to the church I’m not.

I’m not making fun of the way you guys do things here or trying to pick a fight about it. I’m just saying that to JWs, civil divorce law is good enough. This is the way catholics do it and because it’s important to my FI I am doing it this way. But it’s frustrating that I got a divorce in a shorter amount of time (MUCH shorter) and for less money and yet the law is not “good enough”.
yes I’ve heard the arguments for religious annullment because you have to delcare that God recognizes the marriage as being invalid.
But that doesn’t follow MY beliefs is all I was saying.

If you’re a JW and get divorced, you’re divorced. No big long process with your religion. If it’s legal it’s legal. Plain and simple. Just like I am getting married in the church, but since it’s legal with a marriage license and everything the Elders at my Kingdom Hall will recognize it as a real marriage. I don’t have to get it approved after the fact or anythign like that. If you’re married - you’re married. If you’re divorced - you’re divorced. simple.

Jaded,
I’m honestly very curious because this sounds very different from when I was a witness. So please correct me if I’m remembering it wrong or it’s been changed…

I was taught that a JW could only get divorced and remarried if she could prove that her husband cheated on her (or vise versa if it’s the husband who wants to remmary) True… you could get divorced in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of Jehovah (and the Organization) you had to remain faithful to your ex - even after the civil divorce was final. Dating before you could prove that your spouse or ex was unfaithful was a very serious offense - one that would warrant you being disfellowshipped.

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

I was taught that a JW could only get divorced and remarried if she could prove that her husband cheated on her (or vise versa if it’s the husband who wants to remmary) True… you could get divorced in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of Jehovah (and the Organization) you had to remain faithful to your ex - even after the civil divorce was final. Dating before you could prove that your spouse or ex was unfaithful was a very serious offense - one that would warrant you being disfellowshipped.

Hmmm. . .
Well that still goes along with adultery being the only divorcable offense. Otherwise it’s not like you’re still married. MANY people in my KH have gotten remarried when THEY were the ones who cheated or initiated the divorce or whatever. Maybe things HAVE changed I guess. It’s much simpler now.

 

[JP_Augustine]

Jaded,

I echo Carol’s understanding as well…I couldn’t re-marry as a JW unless i could prove that my ex-spouse had had a sexual relationship with someone else. However, I didn’t remain a JW long enough after my separation for that to be an issue for me…

So, if your ex-spouse is re-married you’re in the clear as far as the WTS sees it.

When I first started looking at the Catholic faith, I, too, was very confused about all the stuff surrounding annulments. Now that I’ve learned a bit more (and it’s only a BIT), I realize that the Church looks at these situations to ascertain whether or not both parties were able to freely and fully give their consent to a lifelong marriage that was completely open to life. I know I’m probably oversimplifying it, but it’s a decent way of looking at it.

Plus, the Church uses the annulment process to help ensure that whatever issues cropped up in a prior marriage have been attended to prior to them giving consent to marry you in the Church. Look at it as another set of eyes looking at your current relationship and giving you an outside opinion.

Since this is the unofficial “JW annulment thread”, I’m gonna tag on the latest for me. Met with my associate pastor today to discuss my two divorces with him. It’s so complicated that he had to contact a canon lawyer who then referred him to ANOTHER canon lawyer to get an opinon. Needless to say, mine’s gonna be extremely sticky. Can I just say UGH!

It’s all good, though…but it’s also gonna be LONG!

Hang in there,
JP Augustine

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

Hmmm. . .
Well that still goes along with adultery being the only divorcable offense. Otherwise it’s not like you’re still married. MANY people in my KH have gotten remarried when THEY were the ones who cheated or initiated the divorce or whatever. Maybe things HAVE changed I guess. It’s much simpler now.

So my question is this… If two people never commited adultery - they would remain married in the eyes of the Organization forever - and would never be able to remarry a 2nd time. So in that sense… a civil divorce is not just the end of it… you’d still have to meet with the elders & they would decide if you are free to remarry…

Just like in the Catholic Church where the tirbunal decides if the vows you took bind you still to your first husband?

I suppose the difference is that with the Elders in the Kingdom Hall, that discussion takes place before you file for divorce and with the Catholic Church - that discussion takes place when you apply to be remarried in the Catholic Church.

But really… the position on marrage are very similar - because they are both based on the Bible. So just like with the Catholic tribunal - they may decide you are not free to remarry - just as the Elders could’ve decided you were not free to divorce.

 

[Jaded27]

JP Augustine:

Jaded,

I echo Carol’s understanding as well…I couldn’t re-marry as a JW unless i could prove that my ex-spouse had had a sexual relationship with someone else. However, I didn’t remain a JW long enough after my separation for that to be an issue for me…

Your ex woudln’t just admit to it? That sucks.
JP Augustine:

Look at it as another set of eyes looking at your current relationship and giving you an outside opinion.

I hate outside opinions.
Seriously I take critisism immediately to heart and freak out about it. It’s a serious downfall.
JP Augustine:

Since this is the unofficial “JW annulment thread”, I’m gonna tag on the latest for me. Met with my associate pastor today to discuss my two divorces with him. It’s so complicated that he had to contact a canon lawyer who then referred him to ANOTHER canon lawyer to get an opinon. Needless to say, mine’s gonna be extremely sticky. Can I just say UGH!

It’s all good, though…but it’s also gonna be LONG!

Hang in there,
JP Augustine

Ick, TWO divorces? No thanks. Best of luck with that. Are you engaged now to someone else? Or are you just getting the annullments just in case? Are they gonna have to contact any JWs? I know I had to provide four witnesses, but fortunately I avoided naming anyone who’s a Witness. Should be a BLAST for ya.

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

Just like in the Catholic Church where the tirbunal decides if the vows you took bind you still to your first husband?
[/quotes]
I just said that people in my KH have remarried without a situation of adultery even entering into it. So I’d say that you can do whatever you want. You don’t need to have love approved by the Elders.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

Hmmm. . .
Well that still goes along with adultery being the only divorcable offense. Otherwise it’s not like you’re still married. MANY people in my KH have gotten remarried when THEY were the ones who cheated or initiated the divorce or whatever. Maybe things HAVE changed I guess. It’s much simpler now.

But all of those people would’ve been disfellowshipped (the ones who cheated or initiated the divorce without the proof of adultery) right?
Because otherwise it is TOTALLY different from when I was a witness???

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

But all of those people would’ve been disfellowshipped (the ones who cheated or initiated the divorce without the proof of adultery) right?
Because otherwise it is TOTALLY different from when I was a witness???

Oh, no no no. Adultery = disfellowshipped.

Initiated divorce does not necessarily equal being DFd. At least from what I’ve seen.

 

[JP_Augustine]

Jaded27:

Your ex woudln’t just admit to it? That sucks.

I hate outside opinions.
Seriously I take critisism immediately to heart and freak out about it. It’s a serious downfall.

Ick, TWO divorces? No thanks. Best of luck with that. Are you engaged now to someone else? Or are you just getting the annullments just in case? Are they gonna have to contact any JWs? I know I had to provide four witnesses, but fortunately I avoided naming anyone who’s a Witness. Should be a BLAST for ya.

Yeah, some bad decisions in the past…very bad!

(Which is why I don’t mind having a second opinion this time!)

Yes, I’m engaged to an amazing woman who–like you–is sitting on pins and needles about this whole thing.

My biggest issue is finding witnesses (who are not Witnesses, if ya know what I mean) who are willing to help me out. This marriage happened over 13 years ago, so I’ve been I have one friend who’s an ex JW who has agreed, and I just got off the phone with my best man from that wedding who has also now left the JWs, and he’s willing to help out, too. So, I should be OK in the witness department.

Yep, it’s all a bit complicated…but I know it’s ultimately gonna be ok.

 

[Jaded27]

JP Augustine:

Yeah, some bad decisions in the past…very bad!

(Which is why I don’t mind having a second opinion this time!)

See, I’d love opinions on my relationship (if people think we’re right for each other, blah blah blah) but that’s not what the annullment is. It’s an opinion on whether or not you are free to marry. Just to clarify. But our priest doesn’t know me well enough or know him and I together well enough to say that. And frankly, even my best friend doesn’t know that. It’s tough for sure. You want to be absolutely positive of everything in life but there’s no way you can be.
JP Augustine:

Yes, I’m engaged to an amazing woman who–like you–is sitting on pins and needles about this whole thing.

Is she Catholic too? She must be.
I’m engaged to an amazing guy too (just as a side note). I’m bringing a friend home from work with me to meet him and our pets so he emailed me and said that he vacuumed our bird room and febreezed the house. So I emailed back and said “You rock!” lol.
JP Augustine:

My biggest issue is finding witnesses (who are not Witnesses, if ya know what I mean)

This made me laugh out loud at work. I think I’m having a stressful week so things are extra specially funny.
JP Augustine:

I have one friend who’s an ex JW who has agreed, and I just got off the phone with my best man from that wedding who has also now left the JWs, and he’s willing to help out, too. So, I should be OK in the witness department.

Those ex jws are always good for some help. lol. ACtually, one of my witnesses is a DFd person so whatever works.
JP Augustine:

Yep, it’s all a bit complicated…but I know it’s ultimately gonna be ok.

Wish I knew the same thing. . .