Interested in orthodoxy-advice?

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DeusExMachina

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I dont know if any of you remember, but my first thread on here I decided to abandon TEC for it’s protestant and evangelical heresies, which I could not stand anymore.If you saw that thread, you may remember that I said I was "dismayed at the overly ethnic nature of many orthodox congregations.’’ However, after seeing videos of their beautiful liturgies (St. James’s I find is particularly gorgeous, and realizing they have fewer dogmas than Catholics they are required to assent to (some are very difficult for me to wrap my head around), I’m recanting my earlier position and have decided to.
give our eastern brethren a real chance this time.
My only 3 concerns are these:
1.Do American orthodox churches usually have services in English, and if not are ones that do hard to find?
2. I know the service requires a lot of standing, but due to my physical disabilities I tire quickly from standing for long periods. Would it be disrespectful to sit?
3. Due to the same disabilities, I have a ridiculously overactive metabolism, and I’m not sure I could handle the fasts.

God Bless,
DeusExMachina
 
Depending on the particular Orthodox Church, the Divine Liturgy may be in English, or a combination of English and another language, or entirely another language.

It would not be considered disrespectful to sit due to disability, injury, or age.

Priests may relax fasting requirements in cases of medical need.
 
DeusExMachina said:
I dont know if any of you remember, but my first thread on here I decided to abandon TEC for it’s protestant and evangelical heresies, which I could not stand anymore.If you saw that thread, you may remember that I said I was "dismayed at the overly ethnic nature of many orthodox congregations.’’ However, after seeing videos of their beautiful liturgies (St. James’s I find is particularly gorgeous, and realizing they have fewer dogmas than Catholics they are required to assent to (some are very difficult for me to wrap my head around), I’m recanting my earlier position and have decided to.
give our eastern brethren a real chance this time.
My only 3 concerns are these:
1.Do American orthodox churches usually have services in English, and if not are ones that do hard to find?
2. I know the service requires a lot of standing, but due to my physical disabilities I tire quickly from standing for long periods. Would it be disrespectful to sit?
3. Due to the same disabilities, I have a ridiculously overactive metabolism, and I’m not sure I could handle the fasts.

God Bless,
DeusExMachina
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I’m no authority on the subject by a long shot, but from my experience, OCA churches usually celebrate their liturgies in English. Regarding fasting, the Orthodox on this forum have repeatedly said that if there are concerns, they should be worked out with your confessor/spiritual advisor. Orthodoxy is hard to take in, which is why the Orthodox make it hard to join in the first place. There is no quick step-by-step, formulaic RCIA process from my own personal experience. Frankly, I think the Catholic Church would be better off if they made candidates and catechumens wait longer (Differing from person-by-person of course) to avoid people coming into the Church not fully accepting church teaching. RCIA is quick and dirty.
 
DeusExMachina said:
I dont know if any of you remember, but my first thread on here I decided to abandon TEC for it’s protestant and evangelical heresies, which I could not stand anymore.If you saw that thread, you may remember that I said I was "dismayed at the overly ethnic nature of many orthodox congregations.’’ However, after seeing videos of their beautiful liturgies (St. James’s I find is particularly gorgeous, and realizing they have fewer dogmas than Catholics they are required to assent to (some are very difficult for me to wrap my head around), I’m recanting my earlier position and have decided to.
give our eastern brethren a real chance this time.
My only 3 concerns are these:
1.Do American orthodox churches usually have services in English, and if not are ones that do hard to find?
2. I know the service requires a lot of standing, but due to my physical disabilities I tire quickly from standing for long periods. Would it be disrespectful to sit?
3. Due to the same disabilities, I have a ridiculously overactive metabolism, and I’m not sure I could handle the fasts.

God Bless,
DeusExMachina
Click to expand...
1.) It depends on the jurisidiction. If it is Greek Orthodox, then I would say you have a 50/50 chance of it being mostly English with a few Greek phrases or almost entirely in Greek. If it is another jurisdiction like OCA, for example, it will be in English.

2.) No, by all means sit if you cannot stand.

3.) Fasting is something that has general guidelines, but that’s all they are: guidelines. Only monks are expected to adhere strictly to them. So by all means amend your fasting as you see fit. My own priest admits to not being able to fast from dairy products due to his own health reasons.
 
DeusExMachina said:
I dont know if any of you remember, but my first thread on here I decided to abandon TEC for it’s protestant and evangelical heresies, which I could not stand anymore.If you saw that thread, you may remember that I said I was "dismayed at the overly ethnic nature of many orthodox congregations.’’ However, after seeing videos of their beautiful liturgies (St. James’s I find is particularly gorgeous, and realizing they have fewer dogmas than Catholics they are required to assent to (some are very difficult for me to wrap my head around), I’m recanting my earlier position and have decided to.
give our eastern brethren a real chance this time.
My only 3 concerns are these:
1.Do American orthodox churches usually have services in English, and if not are ones that do hard to find?
2. I know the service requires a lot of standing, but due to my physical disabilities I tire quickly from standing for long periods. Would it be disrespectful to sit?
3. Due to the same disabilities, I have a ridiculously overactive metabolism, and I’m not sure I could handle the fasts.

God Bless,
DeusExMachina
Click to expand...
Why not just find a Byzantine Catholic Church? Their services and theology is exactly the same as Eastern Orthodox with the exception of recognizing the Pope as Supreme Head of the Church.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Why not just find a Byzantine Catholic Church? Their services and theology is exactly the same as Eastern Orthodox with the exception of recognizing the Pope as Supreme Head of the Church.
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The Papacy isn’t the only issue the EO disagree with. Other doctrinal disputes involve Purgatory, Original Sin, some Marian doctrines (namely, the Immaculate Conception), and the Filioque clause in the Creeds (it is true that the Eastern Catholic churches don’t recite that clause in their Divine Liturgy, but dogmatically they’re bound to believe it as it makes up the one deposit of faith Western and Eastern Catholics profess).

So, to the OP, DeusExMachina, if you’ve also looked into Catholicism, and you find its doctrines and dogmas reasonable, just remember that if you convert to Eastern Orthodoxy many of these doctrines aren’t shared by them.
 
Micosil said:
The Papacy isn’t the only issue the EO disagree with. Other doctrinal disputes involve Purgatory, Original Sin, some Marian doctrines (namely, the Immaculate Conception), and the Filioque clause in the Creeds (it is true that the Eastern Catholic churches don’t recite that clause in their Divine Liturgy, but dogmatically they’re bound to believe it as it makes up the one deposit of faith Western and Eastern Catholics profess).

So, to the OP, DeusExMachina, if you’ve also looked into Catholicism, and you find its doctrines and dogmas reasonable, just remember that if you convert to Eastern Orthodoxy many of these doctrines aren’t shared by them.
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But do they (easterncatholics) have to believe in the immaculate conception? Another issue forme of course would be if the heretical "co-redemptorix were defined as dogma, which could only happen as a result of the holy father speaking ex cathedral, and, as such, could only happen in the rcc.
 
DeusExMachina said:
But do they (easterncatholics) have to believe in the immaculate conception? Another issue forme of course would be if the heretical "co-redemptorix were defined as dogma, which could only happen as a result of the holy father speaking ex cathedral, and, as such, could only happen in the rcc.
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Look up what “Coredemptorix” means. It’s not as scary as it sounds.
 
Peter_J said:
Short answer, Yes.

Long answer, it depends what “have to” means.
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The hymns of the Eastern Churches are pretty explicit that Mary was purified at the moment of conception. That does not jive with the dogma of the immaculate conception which leads to a sort of schizo existence for Eastern Catholics if what you claim is true.
 
DeusExMachina said:
But do they (easterncatholics) have to believe in the immaculate conception? Another issue forme of course would be if the heretical "co-redemptorix were defined as dogma, which could only happen as a result of the holy father speaking ex cathedral, and, as such, could only happen in the rcc.
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Re: Immaculate Conception***

Yes. The Immaculate Conception has a long history and was dogmatically defined in 1854 by Pope Pius IX in Ineffabilis Deus. There’s the issue of distinct emphases which could be present in the Eastern churches in full communion with Rome, but if they’re in full communion, it is assumed they accept the dogmatic definition of Pope Pius IX.

These different emphases could be what prodromos is referring to, which can be mistakenly seen from the outside as some sort of “schizo existence” or cognitive dissonance.

For reference, this is the dogmatic definition of the Immaculate Conception:
Pope Pius IX:
We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful.
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So long as this definition as stated is rigorously declared as dogmatic in the Eastern Catholic churches, other things surrounding it could be potentially debated theologically, and perhaps do not require submission of will and/or intellect; there may be some wiggle room.

A more common example of this phenomenon can be seen in the Eucharist – when do the bread and the wine turn into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ? Is it during the Words of Institution, or the Epiklesis? That the bread and the wine truly do change into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ goes without saying in both the Latin Rite and Eastern Catholicism (and indeed, in all of the other non-Catholic churches with valid sacraments), but when precisely this happens is something that tradition, lower-case “t”, gives different preference to in Western and Eastern Christianity. This would be the “wiggle room” for this specific doctrine.
Re: Co-Redemptrix***

I do not think this is a “heretical” dogma. Where did you hear that from? :confused:

While the role of Mary as Co-Redemptrix isn’t formally defined dogma and probably doesn’t require the same level of submission of will and/or intellect as other Marian doctrines, I do not think it’s “heretical” either. It can be said to be a pious way to meditate on Mary.

I would suggest this article by Fr. Longenecker to understand what precisely the understanding of Mary as Co-Redemptrix means, and what it entails.
 
prodromos said:
The hymns of the Eastern Churches are pretty explicit that Mary was purified at the moment of conception. That does not jive with the dogma of the immaculate conception which leads to a sort of schizo existence for Eastern Catholics if what you claim is true.
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Our history has shown a lot of … difficulties of identity.

Nowadays, I think most Greek Catholic churches are more-or-less like the Western-Rite Orthodox, just in reverse, and thus are less conflicted. Of course, the downside is that (like the Western-Rite Orthodox) they’re relatively small.

Note that I’m speaking only of Greek Catholics (i.e. Catholic Churches like the MGCC, UGCC, and the 12 others that use the Byzantine Rite) because I’m unsure how what you are talking about works out with the Oriental Catholic Churches.
 
I attend a Greek Orthodox Parish In New Zealand so I don’t know if this will help answer question one but in our Church we have the service printed in English and in Greek and the Liturgy is performed 50/50 Greek and English. I understand wanting to worship in the native language and recall one time I attended church in which the entire service was in Greek including the sermon (so I couldn’t understand a word of the sermon) and by the end of it was quite angry. Thankfully that hasn’t happened since and the priest that performed the Liturgy was there as a replacement that Sunday. Even if you can’t find a Church with a mostly English liturgy or with service books which translate the Greek, Arabic or Russian that shouldn’t stop your search into Orthodoxy. If it is true, join the church regardless of the worship and enquire with the Priest if there’s an adequate service book you can use to follow the service if it’s in an entirely different language.

If you are unable to stand during the services no one will expect you to. Sometimes I’ve been too tired to stand at certain points of the liturgy as well.

As far as the fasts are concerned they are an integral part of the Orthodox life, our attempt at giving up the things of the world. The fast is strict but the church does not put a burden that someone cannot handle. I entered the church having done no fasting beforehand and during that first year of being Orthodox didn’t give up much. During the second year I gave up Meat and chocolate if I recall. Last year I decided to give up one thing every week leading up to Easter, first giving up meat, then giving up chocolate, then giving up fizzy drinks, then energy drinks and etc. One must consult their priest before doing this however and in my case my own priest was pleased with what I wanted to fast from last year and blessed it. If you need a certain amount of food you shouldn’t put your health at risk with intense fasting or something more than you can handle.

I hope this helps. God bless you in your enquiry.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Why not just find a Byzantine Catholic Church? Their services and theology is exactly the same as Eastern Orthodox with the exception of recognizing the Pope as Supreme Head of the Church.
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This really depends on the parish. It’s a sliding scale from “Orthodox in communion with Rome” on one side to “Roman Catholics with a funny Mass” on the other side.
 
wynd said:
This really depends on the parish. It’s a sliding scale from “Orthodox in communion with Rome” on one side to “Roman Catholics with a funny Mass” on the other side.
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This is what I thought
 
Micosil said:
The Papacy isn’t the only issue the EO disagree with. Other doctrinal disputes involve Purgatory, Original Sin, some Marian doctrines (namely, the Immaculate Conception), and the Filioque clause in the Creeds (it is true that the Eastern Catholic churches don’t recite that clause in their Divine Liturgy, but dogmatically they’re bound to believe it as it makes up the one deposit of faith Western and Eastern Catholics profess).

So, to the OP, DeusExMachina, if you’ve also looked into Catholicism, and you find its doctrines and dogmas reasonable, just remember that if you convert to Eastern Orthodoxy many of these doctrines aren’t shared by them.
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Not necessarily. Purgatory can be found in the east, but it’s far different from the western view. Many Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Eastern Catholic) put great emphasis on Theosis unlike the west. In fact, many eastern Catholics hold this view that this is what purgatory really is. Original sin is not really a problem either. Now, the western and eastern view of original sin are different. Though, contrary to many Eastern Orthodox arguments against Catholicism, we do not teach original guilt. Many Eastern Catholics views on original sin are closer to Orthodox views. And finally, the Immaculate Conception is held as dogma in the Catholic Church. However, the western view of sin is not. Eastern Catholics do believe Mary was conceived without original sin… they also believe so was everyone else. They do not reject dogma. They just have a different perspective of the dogma. Eastern Catholics agree Mary was sinless from birth. Most Eastern Orthodox agree with that. Though, I do believe some Eastern Orthodox believe Mary was only sinless from since the Annunciation.
 
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