Interesting article Marian apparitions from an Orthodox point of view.

  • Thread starter Thread starter coco2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

coco2

Guest
I was perusing and found this article which I found rather eye opening. This is the first I have seen anything from the Orthodox point of view. There are several apparitions that leave me feeling uncomfortable and I have struggled with this for a long time. I found this very interesting. Scroll down to the article by Miriam Lambouras.

[(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html](http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html)
 
Nnnnooooooo!!! Its making me Orthodox!!! (in Stephen Colbert fashion)

😃
 
coco2 said:
I was perusing and found this article which I found rather eye opening. This is the first I have seen anything from the Orthodox point of view. There are several apparitions that leave me feeling uncomfortable and I have struggled with this for a long time. I found this very interesting. Scroll down to the article by Miriam Lambouras.

[(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html](http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html)
Click to expand...
Sigh. I did not need to read this. 😦
 
TrueLight, your info says you are a new Catholic on fire! Don’t let this put out your fire!

I have struggled, struggled, struggled with this topic. And I want you to know that I say the rosary most every day. I think doing that has brought me closer to Christ, but all the apparitions… I go back and forth. Are some legitimate, some false or are they all false or even worse, deceptions? Just when I think I will burst if I don’t know the truth for certain, I realize that I do know the truth for certain. Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. So it doesn’t matter if I know the truth about apparitions and I will never know for certain until I die.
 
It was bad enough that this woman tries to mock the approved apparitions of the Catholic Church; when she started comparing the Marian apparitions at Zeitoun to UFO’s, then I knew this woman was not 100% there in the noggin.

We don’t need someone who claims to be Orthodox compare miracles to UFO’s and natural phenonomena; we have enough of that coming from Hollywood and its athiest cronies.

Don’t let this pundit shake your Catholic Faith. She is arm and arm with the modernists who are constantly trying to destroy the miraculous. And her disrespect for the doctrine of the Justice of God is maddeningly UNorthodox. She claims, for example, that it is unorthodox for one of the Marian apparitions to claim that her Son will come to punish sinners. Yet Revelation records that our Lord stated to the Church in Pergamum - “REPENT, OR I WILL WAGE WAR WITH YOU WITH THE SWORD OF MY MOUTH.” Again, to the Church of Thyatira, our Lord warned, “REPENT OR I WILL PLUNGE YOU INTO INTENSE SUFFERING…”

Her image of a loving God who is ALL mercy with NO justice is not Orthodox AT ALL!

Her comparison of Catholic Marian veneration with goddess worship smacks of Protestant and modernist attempts to discredit Christianity by picking out similarities with ancient pagan religions.

Oh! And her criticism that Mary said “I will save/heal some…” EXCUSE ME? Is it not the Orthodox who pray “MARY SAVE US!!!” Why does this woman attach some sort of unorthodox intention to what Mary stated in the apparition, yet no doubt can excuse blithely the Orthodox appeal for Mary to save us? A bunch of hypocritical nonsense!

I could spend many pages criticizing her “logic,” but I don’t want to waste my breath.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
This women shows that she never abandoned her Anglicanism when she converted to Russian Orthodoxy.
 
Yes. I mean is this even an approved Orthodox site? Not every Catholic blog out there speaks for the Catholic Church, why do we have to take every site that says they speak for the Orthodox faith as true Orthodox? We must be careful in assigning such associations as we might foster ill feelings unjustly. I mean, we should never foster ill feelings at all, its bad that we do but it worse that its out of a misguided notion.
 
Strong polemic against Catholicism is just as common in certain circles of Orthodoxy, especially traditional Orthodoxy, as it is in Jack Chick’s kind of Protestantism. Even then, I can’t believe that is a representative Orthodox site (after all, the author claims to be an “ex-Catholic nun” - do you know how many Muslim apologists claim to be ex-Catholic Priests? it’s a stock trick) as, having been a member of two different brands of Orthodoxy, Oriental and Eastern, those views are not held of the person of Mary; devotion to the Theotokos is as strong as it is in Catholicism. And folk piety is not to be confused with doctrine, which she equivocates: there are a good many Christians who would have a hard time telling you if they worshiped one God or three, if they even knew what “monotheist” meant.

I have no doubt that some Marian apparitions are true, and some are false. On the other hand, I have no doubt those writings are by and large false. I can write in such a way to throw Orthodoxy in to a horrible light as well, by focusing on nothing more than the Mohammedan influence and dhimmi nature of the Orthodox after the sack of Constantinople.
 
coco2 said:
TrueLight, your info says you are a new Catholic on fire! Don’t let this put out your fire!

I have struggled, struggled, struggled with this topic. And I want you to know that I say the rosary most every day. I think doing that has brought me closer to Christ, but all the apparitions… I go back and forth. Are some legitimate, some false or are they all false or even worse, deceptions? Just when I think I will burst if I don’t know the truth for certain, I realize that I do know the truth for certain. Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. So it doesn’t matter if I know the truth about apparitions and I will never know for certain until I die.
Click to expand...
Thanks coco.
 
coco2 said:
I was perusing and found this article which I found rather eye opening. This is the first I have seen anything from the Orthodox point of view. There are several apparitions that leave me feeling uncomfortable and I have struggled with this for a long time. I found this very interesting. Scroll down to the article by Miriam Lambouras.

[(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html](http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html)
Click to expand...
Don’t ever lose sight of God, of Jesus, and of His mother Mary! Don’t ever let anything take away the flame that powerful apparitions provide us with, and don’t ever let any demon disguised as a human tell you that what you know in your life to be a true apparition is fake. Don’t let anything put that flame out, because it is given to you for a reason! Marian apparitions are given to you for a reason, and if you deny them or their meanings, you completely go against what was asked of you when it was given to you. I didn’t watch the link cause honestly I’m tired of the skeptics, I’m tired of the cynisists, I’m tired of people trying to put out my flame. I had a crisis of faith, I even went to Islam for a while, a horrible mistake… but it was the presence of Jesus in my life which truly kept me from falling back into those problems. I haven’t seen, I haven’t physically seen an apparition… but I call myself lucky to feel the presence Jesus lift me out of the darkness in times of depression, in times when I’ve wanted to kill myself, and in times when my family wouldn’t understand me. Never, ever, ever lose faith in the experiences you feel, for not believing could put you in a lot of harm!
God bless you!
 
There is real wisdom in the Church reminding people that these are private revelations and that we are not required to believe in them.

I know some people view the world, and even the Church, in strictly black and white terms.

But I also see that in her own way and wisdom, even the Church realizes that there is a lot of grey in the human experience.
 
change the thread title to “article on Marian apparitions from an anti-Catholic POV” and move it to the proper forum, non-Catholic religions

site linked is not representative of the Orthodox POV and what has her rant to do with Eastern Catholicism?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yes. I mean is this even an approved Orthodox site? Not every Catholic blog out there speaks for the Catholic Church, why do we have to take every site that says they speak for the Orthodox faith as true Orthodox? We must be careful in assigning such associations as we might foster ill feelings unjustly. I mean, we should never foster ill feelings at all, its bad that we do but it worse that its out of a misguided notion.
Click to expand...
I looked at it briefly last night, I don’t think the website is run by an Orthodox person, but the article was borrowed from some other place. I have seen the article before somewhere.

I believe the article was well written for the most part. It has to be taken for this one person’s opinion.

As Puzzleannie states, it is not necessarily an Eastern Catholic topic, but since no Roman Catholic is required to believe in any apparition (and they can decide this for themselves based upon each person’s own criteria), I would not call this an anti-Catholic article. If the author was not already self identified as something else a Roman Catholic could have written it.
 
Hesychios said:
I looked at it briefly last night, I don’t think the website is run by an Orthodox person, but the article was borrowed from some other place. I have seen the article before somewhere.

I believe the article was well written for the most part. It has to be taken for this one person’s opinion.

As Puzzleannie states, it is not necessarily an Eastern Catholic topic, but since no Roman Catholic is required to believe in any apparition (and they can decide this for themselves based upon each person’s own criteria), I would not call this an anti-Catholic article. If the author was not already self identified as something else a Roman Catholic could have written it.
Click to expand...
Right, they are talking much from the time of Fatima foward also. The last approved Vatican sight is Fatima.

I see no true represention ot the CC or EO here, and believe it does no service to either. From a personal perspective, to me as soon as medjugorje is mentioned I become skeptical.

I’ll talk Fatima for the simple reason I believe in it as does Pope Benedict whom incourages Catholics to Read it, Understand it and Live its message.

The Copts in Zeitoun Egypt from 68-70 I find very interesting also for other Apostolic Churchs.

Peace.
 
Monicad said:
Dear coco then let it go…do not “struggle” with this it is unnecessary! As others have reminded, the Church does not require us to follow or beleive in any private revalation. You could state out loud that “I don’t beleive Mary ever came to Fatima, or Lourdes” and you would still be a Catholic in good standing with the church. These apparitions are approved because they do not contradict the faith and many people have found comfort and healing there, still it is not required of you to beleive them.

If it is truely a struggle for you then let it go! I would imagine you have other struggles in your spiritual life where you can concentrate your energies. Perhaps at a later time you may examine the issue if you are interested or drawn to them in any way. Hope this helps, God bless.
Click to expand...
Your Rosary in daily recitation should be bringing you closer to Christ, Eucharist, Confession and Communion in correct Catholic worship. When something else is in fact happening, than there is an incorrect veneration occuring, and personally I believe the Catholic obligations should be re-evlaluated.

Speak with a CC Priest would be my advice. Yes, as we know some become distracted with a combination of untruths and devotions which become contrary to Catholic Teaching.

If the devil appeared as the devil, would you listen to him? I think not. Talk to the elect, thats what they are there for.

All the orders in the CC have a clear and evident veneration of the Blessed Mother. However none will allow this to distract from Christ. It must work in union with Christs will and Catholic teaching.

Peace
 
GaryTaylor said:
All the orders in the CC have a clear and evident veneration of the Blessed Mother. However none will allow this to distract from Christ. It must work in union with Christs will and Catholic teaching.
Click to expand...
Very well stated, thanks for that Gary.

To your point, I was speaking about this with a Dominican Friar not too long ago and his perception was that Our Lady is best viewed as the the most blessed of the saints and as a powerful advocate who can pray for us and lead us to her Son. However, he was not comfortable with people taking it much further than that. Coming from a Friar in the same order as St. Dominic who purported to receive the Rosary from Our Lady, I found his statements striking. In addition, his guidance has been quite helpful in discerning my own approach to Mary.
 
jwinch2 said:
To your point, I was speaking about this with a Dominican Friar not too long ago and his perception was that Our Lady is best viewed as the the most blessed of the saints and as a powerful advocate who can pray for us and lead us to her Son. However, he was not comfortable with people taking it much further than that. …
Click to expand...
I can agree with his statement as you have related it here.
 
Hesychios said:
I can agree with his statement as you have related it here.
Click to expand...
Agreed. As a convert, one of my biggest hang-ups has been Mary. Not praying to her or even venerating her as a saint, I can deal with that no problem. It is the level that some take it to.
 
Perth21 said:
Don’t ever lose sight of God, of Jesus, and of His mother Mary! Don’t ever let anything take away the flame that powerful apparitions provide us with, and don’t ever let any demon disguised as a human tell you that what you know in your life to be a true apparition is fake. Don’t let anything put that flame out, because it is given to you for a reason! Marian apparitions are given to you for a reason, and if you deny them or their meanings, you completely go against what was asked of you when it was given to you. I didn’t watch the link cause honestly I’m tired of the skeptics, I’m tired of the cynisists, I’m tired of people trying to put out my flame. I had a crisis of faith, I even went to Islam for a while, a horrible mistake… but it was the presence of Jesus in my life which truly kept me from falling back into those problems. I haven’t seen, I haven’t physically seen an apparition… but I call myself lucky to feel the presence Jesus lift me out of the darkness in times of depression, in times when I’ve wanted to kill myself, and in times when my family wouldn’t understand me. Never, ever, ever lose faith in the experiences you feel, for not believing could put you in a lot of harm!
God bless you!
Click to expand...
Perth, the Church has said that it is not necessary to believe in Marian apparitions. We are free to accept them, or not accept them. Your comment sounds like a threat…if I deny them or their meaning, I am going against what was asked of me? HUH? I already pray, read scripture, go to Mass, say the rosary, love God and ( try to) love my neighbor. I am sorry for all the confusion that has been in your life and am glad that you now have Christ at the center. I am not trying to put out your flame, I am just being cautious. I do not think all of there apparitions have been “tested”. I have no idea how you test these things. I don’t think looking at “the fruits” are enough. Some apparitions contradict each other, therefore there is a problem somewhere. And they all have produced some “good fruits”. obviously, it is just as difficult for the Church to determine what is happening, as they have only approved a few. And even then, they never say it actually happened, only that it is worthy of belief.
 
jwinch2 said:
Agreed. As a convert, one of my biggest hang-ups has been Mary. Not praying to her or even venerating her as a saint, I can deal with that no problem. It is the level that some take it to.
Click to expand...
I see that you have become involved in a Third order. Very good! Quite helpful, I think, for one’s spiritual growth.

I was a Benedictine Oblate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top