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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
And it would be a non sequitor.
Interesting idea: 12 step "Islamic Terrorist Detox" program in Canada
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Jay53
Guest
I asked elwill the same question. Are Muslims made to “feel subdued” with humiliation and lowliness when they pay their zakat?
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Hadi
Guest
عن يد وهم صاغرون
With ability and under willingness and submission.
The first part says they pay Jyzia only if they can afford to do so…the second part says they have to submit to the state (that also includes Muslims , Jews, Hindus and everyone else living in the state)… it means you have to be a loyal citizen and not betray the state.
With ability and under willingness and submission.
The first part says they pay Jyzia only if they can afford to do so…the second part says they have to submit to the state (that also includes Muslims , Jews, Hindus and everyone else living in the state)… it means you have to be a loyal citizen and not betray the state.
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Hadi
Guest
عن يد وهم صاغرون
With ability and under willingness and submission.
for those who keep the second part but not the first one out of poverty… the Muslim state is obliged to give them Zakat (money, food, etc ) on a regular basis…
we are commanded to protect the following for the dhimmi:
1- Religion
2- Soul
3- Mind
4- Honor
5- Money
The prophet warned us :“if someone kills a dihimmi, the Heaven is **forbidden **for him” that is, he goes to Hell.
With ability and under willingness and submission.
for those who keep the second part but not the first one out of poverty… the Muslim state is obliged to give them Zakat (money, food, etc ) on a regular basis…
we are commanded to protect the following for the dhimmi:
1- Religion
2- Soul
3- Mind
4- Honor
5- Money
The prophet warned us :“if someone kills a dihimmi, the Heaven is **forbidden **for him” that is, he goes to Hell.
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Jay53
Guest
That’s not the way it reads in any of the major translations. I would be inclined to believe that it is a simple translation issue if the dhimmis didn’t have other restrictions placed on them as well.
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jakasaki
Guest
For poster Hadi: 9:29
{ قَاتِلُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَلاَ بِٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ ٱلْحَقِّ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلْكِتَابَ حَتَّىٰ يُعْطُواْ ٱلْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ }
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, for, otherwise, they would have believed in the Prophet (s), and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, such as wine, nor do they practise the religion of truth, the firm one, the one that abrogated other religions, namely, the religion of Islam — from among of those who (min, ‘from’, explains [the previous] alladhīna, ‘those who’) have been given the Scripture, namely, the Jews and the Christians, until they pay the jizya tribute, the annual tax imposed them, readily (‘an yadin is a circumstantial qualifier, meaning, ‘compliantly’, or ‘by their own hands’, not delegating it [to others to pay]), being subdued, [being made] submissive and compliant to the authority of Islam.
altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=29&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
{ قَاتِلُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَلاَ بِٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ ٱلْحَقِّ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلْكِتَابَ حَتَّىٰ يُعْطُواْ ٱلْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ }
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, for, otherwise, they would have believed in the Prophet (s), and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, such as wine, nor do they practise the religion of truth, the firm one, the one that abrogated other religions, namely, the religion of Islam — from among of those who (min, ‘from’, explains [the previous] alladhīna, ‘those who’) have been given the Scripture, namely, the Jews and the Christians, until they pay the jizya tribute, the annual tax imposed them, readily (‘an yadin is a circumstantial qualifier, meaning, ‘compliantly’, or ‘by their own hands’, not delegating it [to others to pay]), being subdued, [being made] submissive and compliant to the authority of Islam.
altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=29&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
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staffsgt7
Guest
It could be due to the fact that the Koran is where all the violence comes from. When the abrogated surahs have been replaced by violent ones, or ones that just are out and out hateful and calling unbelievers names to denigrate them - what is the point? The majority of Muslims have the appearance of toleration and peacefulness only when their numbers in our lands are low. In their Muslim lands, or when their numbers grow, that toleration gets tossed out the window.
They don’t stand up to the violent ones OR (which is more likely since this is what Sharia laws say to do) they are deceiving us as to their true intentions (taqiyya) and they are supporting the violent ones with Muslim Charities. If they are a majority how come they don’t stop the intolerance and violence in their own countries and communities? Dearborn, DC, and other areas around the USA that have growing Muslim populations are growing intolerant.
Maybe we should DEMAND they be given 3 weeks of history classes where they adopt Christian or Jewish names, visit Churches or Temples, memorize passages from the NT, OT or Torah, and pray like a Christian or a Jew. If the Buddhists or Hindus want them to do it for their religion too then so be it.
I have read the Koran and Sharia laws and found the truth to be what the Jihadists do, and what the majority do - nothing but support the violent ones out of fear, disinterest or willing approval. Muslims are victims themselves but as a non-Muslim I am not going to wait for a brainwashed mass of HOPEFULLY peaceful Muslims to stop the violence. As we see through history they don’t do squat except give a lot of hot air.
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staffsgt7
Guest
You forget to mention that zakat is also to go to supporting those violent Jihadists! Oops, or maybe just some kithman, huh?
Anyway, to put oneself at the mercy of a group of people that have proven themselves to be barbaric and backwards is probably why they are fleeing. But the persecution of them in Muslim lands is very telling too. So much for all those rosey words especially since the money isn’t the important part of the whole matter. It is to make them feel subdued.
They have NO rights under Sharia laws and have severe restrictions while they are to be forced to dress differently than Muslims, I suppose that is so they can be easily picked out of a crowd… hhmmm, for what reason? (I can guess) The dhimmi have had their lands stolen in recent years in the Middle East, they have had their people killed, tortured, kidnapped/raped/forced to convert, churches destroyed, and live in squalid conditions due to the part they are severely restricted in what jobs they are allowed to have. Of course, many of the jobs are jobs that Muslims feel too arrogant to do themselves.
And the reason why your post is just totally inaccurate is because NO ZAKAT IS TO BE GIVEN TO A NON-MUSLIM.
Why anyone would even think that being subjugated in this manner is a good and peaceful thing is beyond me.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
I remember once debating a Muslim man who attempted to say that the Janissaries was an example of Muslim societies giving Christians “a chance to advance” in society. Never mind that the Janissaries were Christians who were abducted from their parents at a young age, forced to convert to Islam, and forced to serve in the Turkish armies. Never mind also that there are recorded instances of children running away from their Turkish collectors, only to return when the Turks threatened to kill their parents - and never mind there are recorded instances of towns in the Balkans killing the collectors and rebelling against the Turks because of the practice of taking up Janissaries. This is all off-topic, but believe me that when you wonder to yourself why some think “being subjugated” is a good thing…I’ve heard worse.
Now, while I understand that not all Muslims may practice the literal meaning of S. 9:29, I can’t help how it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Suppose the US Congress enacted a law - or a new world religion appeared - that said the following:
Fight those who do not believe in your god, nor in the last day, nor do they follow what your religion teaches, even the Muslims, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
I imagine that not too many Muslims would be playing apologist for it. They would probably be in an uproar. Now, for any Muslim reading this, imagine yourself in this position, and you can imagine how Jews, Christians and most non-Muslims feel about S. 9:29 and other similar passages.
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