Interesting Joseph Smith Quotes

[Loboto-Me]

I just read the link but I’m sorry to say that it doesn’t defend that horrid statement at all in my mind.

It tells of the entries made by scribes and not Joseph Smith himself, yet even if it were scribes who wrote this, it was a statement made only a month before his death. It was a statement made that was still fresh in memory and actually made to show their admiration for him! The defense actually says that the basic content is probably accurate but the tone is probably not.

I’m not upset about boasting, who cares whether he boasted or not. He went further than boasting… He elevated himself above Jesus Himself! Using “basic content here” He glorified himself while diminishing Jesus. Even had he wrongly diminished the Apostles it would not have been as bad.

The articles says that the “prophet’s” boasting was understandable due to the stress of gangs trying to get him. Naw, a true prophet would not have elevated himself above Jesus and basically belittled Jesus for not keeping his promise (In Joseph’s mind). That’s a prophet of God? I’d like to see what an enemy of God would have said!

When I wrote the first comment about striking him dead had I been God, I didn’t know that his sacrilegious statement was said only a month before he was murderered. So I guess God didn’t take kindly to his statement either did He? Although God no longer strikes people dead and doesn’t actually kill people with His own hand, He does allow things to happen… ya gotta wonder… What irony LOL

I think this article shows how veiled the eyes are when looking toward Joseph Smith as a true prophet.

In the Didache on Apostles and Prophets

11. If anyone comes and instructs you on the foregoing lines, make him
welcome. But should the instructor himself then turn round and introduce
teaching of a different and subversive nature, pay no attention to him. If
it aims at promoting righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, though,
welcome him as you would the Lord

The Didache is one of the earliest Church writtings which was written well before the end of the 1st century. It used to be called **“The Lord’s Instruction to the Gentiles Through the Twelve Apostles”
**
It has instructions for the early christians and a section to recognize false prophets from true prophets. You see how it warns us against prophets claiming stuff that is in opposition to what Jesus and His Apostles taught.

I would think that elevating people to becoming gods and ruling their own little worlds and saying that God was actually a person would definitely apply as in opposition to Jesus’ teachings. Joseph Smith and Mohammed would have been told to go away really quick had they come along during those times.

Yeah, as you can tell… I have much disdain for this false prophet and that’s all due to that one statement (that’s how it started anyway). Before I read that sacrilegious statement, I barely knew anything about him, and now I’ve done a little more looking around to learn more and he repulses me all the more.

 

[SirThomasMore]

There is no question that Joseph said these things. It is claimed we cannot have something both ways, so, to be fair, neither can LDS folks.

Much of what you love about Joseph Smith were things he said that other people heard him say and wrote down. You love those sayings. You can;y accept as fact the things people wrote that you like then discount as “iffy” the things he said that people wrote down and that you don;t like.

 

[dianaiad]

There is no question that Joseph said these things. It is claimed we cannot have something both ways, so, to be fair, neither can LDS folks.

Evidently there is quite a large question about whether he said ‘these things,’ sir…a valid and reasonable question about the exact nature of the words spoken, or even whether he said them at all.

Indeed?

would you care to give examples?

 

[SirThomasMore]

Evidently there is quite a large question about whether he said ‘these things,’ sir…a valid and reasonable question about the exact nature of the words spoken, or even whether he said them at all.

Indeed?

would you care to give examples?

The “Teachings of Joseph Smith” is full of things Joseph said, but that someone heard and wrote down. Brigham Young often quoted Joseph with things Joseph told him and no one else.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Let me give you an example. On page 160 of the Teachings of Joseph Smith, Newell Whitney recounts a story and discusses things Joseph said. You accept those without question.

Yet, when someone claims Joseph talked about men on the moon, you find reasons to doubt Joseph said it.

 

[lax16]

I don’t know. All people must learn from their mistakes. **What do we know about the prophets or apostles in the new testament. Not much. We don’t **see the human demension of their lives in the brief accounts that we have. What do we know of Paul and all that he said or did? We only have a trace for his life. He was much more than what the bible says he was. And he did and said more than what it is in the bible.

What do we have of moses? Do we have every word that he said throughout his life? Hardly. Do we have every action that he did? Hardly. Do we have all his emotional life in the bible? Hardly

Then why does the LDS Church say in their literature:

Prophets receive the priesthood, or the authority to speak and act in the name of God to lead His children. People who follow the prophets receive the blessings God has promised. Those who reject the gospel and God’s prophets lose those blessings and distance themselves from God. Those who reject the prophets and their commitment to follow God are in a condition called apostasy.

According to this definition, the early Apostles were in a state of apostasy when they rejected the Prophet (Jesus) with their frequent bouts of “human imperfection” and their commitment to follow God (they had moments of doubt).

We know **plenty **about the mistakes of the early apostles! Peter denying Christ, His closes apostles falling asleep when He asked them to pray with Him, S/Paul persecuting Christians, Thomas not believing until he saw the wounds of Christ for himself…Those brief descriptions speak volumes about their character!

So you are saying, that as far as Joseph Smith, he can be a prophet that learns from his mistakes.

As far as the early Church, those that made mistakes were in apostasy.

Joseph Smith is the founder of Mormonism and yet he does not have to be perfect for his followers to believe that he was called by God.

The Early Church was led by humans, men, who were not perfect, but endured much to keep the Church from being led astray, and they were in apostasy?

The double standard is very frustrating, to say the least.

 

[campeador]

Question.

Is this in the Doctrine and Covenants?

As a matter of fact, it is:
THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, SECTION 111

It seems that J. Smith missed this one. He was wrong about:

1. I have much treasure in this city for you…
2. …and many people in this city whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion…
3. And it shall come to pass in due time, that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it…
4. …and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.
5. Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.

And the ‘fulfillment of the revelation’ excuse seems ludicrous on the face of it:

It became evident to the leaders of the Church that the “treasure” referred to by the Lord was the conversion of people in Salem to the Gospel.

The population of Salem, Mass. in 1830 was 13,895 according to the U.S. Bureau of the Census. That makes 90 converts less than 1% of the population! That certainly doesn’t represent ‘much treasure’ or ‘many people’ by anyone’s standard, nor does it represent ‘I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it…’. Unless, of course, you’re a Mormon apologist and can’t easily explain away such a blatantly problematic prophecy.

 

[paulp1002]

When I was struggling with the teachings of the LDS church I was told to pray and research the topics I was having problems with. One of my main problems was that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God.

So I researched it. I came across many of the same false prophecies already mentioned in this thread. For example on February 14, 1835, Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his journal that Joseph Smith said that "God had revealed to him that the coming of Christ would be within 56 years."47 The official History of the Church

I asked my ex-father inlaw and the bishop and they both told me basically the same thing. That it doesn’t specify if Christ would come to all people or just JS and since JS died before the 56 years we don’t know if his prophecy would have came true. I was also told that JS may have made that comment as a man and not as a Prophet.

When there are questions regarding a “false prophecy” the LDS Church can always say that JS is a man and that he spoke as a man, and that was not a prophecy; but a statement he made as a man. Man make mistakes.

 

[why_me]

Let me give you an example. On page 160 of the Teachings of Joseph Smith, Newell Whitney recounts a story and discusses things Joseph said. You accept those without question.

Yet, when someone claims Joseph talked about men on the moon, you find reasons to doubt Joseph said it.

Actually, I accept nothing he said, as quoted by someone else without question. I always know that someone is relating what he said. Now of course, there are mormons who may not know that such things are second hand accounts because they do not look at the reference. But I never accept anything at face value.

 

[why_me]

When I was struggling with the teachings of the LDS church I was told to pray and research the topics I was having problems with. One of my main problems was that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God.

So I researched it. I came across many of the same false prophecies already mentioned in this thread. For example on February 14, 1835, Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his journal that Joseph Smith said that "God had revealed to him that the coming of Christ would be within 56 years."47 The official History of the Church

I asked my ex-father inlaw and the bishop and they both told me basically the same thing. That it doesn’t specify if Christ would come to all people or just JS and since JS died before the 56 years we don’t know if his prophecy would have came true. I was also told that JS may have made that comment as a man and not as a Prophet.

When there are questions regarding a “false prophecy” the LDS Church can always say that JS is a man and that he spoke as a man, and that was not a prophecy; but a statement he made as a man. Man make mistakes.

Here is a good example that you can perhaps understand:

Why Me lived at the time of one of the popes. Lets say that I heard a pope speak in 1844. I wrote down what he said after I heard him speak. Would you trust me? Supose I said: The pope said that christ will come in 56 years…

Probably not. Now of course, the lds church did publish that quotation. Why? Bcause it had nothing to hide. Lets be honest…why publish that quotation at all? Because someone who had responsiblity in the early church recorded it in his notes. That is why it is there.

The people that you questioned did not know that that was not Joseph’s first hand account but it came from someone’s notes. And that is a problem.

 

[why_me]

The population of Salem, Mass. in 1830 was 13,895 according to the U.S. Bureau of the Census. That makes 90 converts less than 1% of the population! That certainly doesn’t represent ‘much treasure’ or ‘many people’ by anyone’s standard, nor does it represent ‘I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it…’. Unless, of course, you’re a Mormon apologist and can’t easily explain away such a blatantly problematic prophecy.

Of course there were more converts. But the first 90 made the newspapers…why? Because it was quite a lot being baptised in a short period of time. And for god, 90 people is certainly a small treasure. In fact in the site of god, we are all his treasure.

 

[why_me]

I just read the link but I’m sorry to say that it doesn’t defend that horrid statement at all in my mind.

It tells of the entries made by scribes and not Joseph Smith himself, yet even if it were scribes who wrote this, it was a statement made only a month before his death. It was a statement made that was still fresh in memory and actually made to show their admiration for him! The defense actually says that the basic content is probably accurate but the tone is probably not.

I’m not upset about boasting, who cares whether he boasted or not. He went further than boasting… He elevated himself above Jesus Himself! Using “basic content here” He glorified himself while diminishing Jesus. Even had he wrongly diminished the Apostles it would not have been as bad.

The articles says that the “prophet’s” boasting was understandable due to the stress of gangs trying to get him. Naw, a true prophet would not have elevated himself above Jesus and basically belittled Jesus for not keeping his promise (In Joseph’s mind). That’s a prophet of God? I’d like to see what an enemy of God would have said!

.

I didn’t think that it would have any affect on you at all. Why would it? I just stated a fact about such a quotation came from someones notes. Also, here is what the antimormons love to do. Post one quotation from a speech and go with it. I have no idea why that would have any meaning. Now if I could read the speech that the quotation came from, that would be helpful. But one quotation from a speech proves nothing.

We have very little what Paul actually said during his life. The bible does not have much of what Paul said or wrote. Much has been lost. Everyday of his life, Paul talked and said things. What did he say, when he stubbed his toe? Did he ever boast more than what we have in the bible? Perhaps…who knows?

 

[twopekinguys]

Personally, I like this quote of JS from his presidential platform speech.

“British officers are now running all over Texas to establish British influence in that country… It will be more honorable for us to receive Texas and set the negroes free, and use the negroes and Indians against our foes…How much better it is for the nation to bear a little expense than to have the Indians and British upon us and destroy us all… The South holds the balance of power. By annexing Texas, I can do away with this evil. As soon as Texas was annexed, I would liberate the slaves in two or three States, *indemnifying * their owners, and send the negroes to Texas, and from Texas to Mexico, where all colors are alike. And if that was not sufficient, I would call upon Canada, and annex it. (Vol. 6, p. 244)”

In one part he talks about setting them free, then in another part he talks about buying (compensating) them from their owners and sending them to Texas.

Indemnifying their owners is the same thing as purchasing them.**

 

[MelanieAnne]

Personally, I like this quote of JS from his presidential platform speech.

“British officers are now running all over Texas to establish British influence in that country… It will be more honorable for us to receive Texas and set the negroes free, and use the negroes and Indians against our foes…How much better it is for the nation to bear a little expense than to have the Indians and British upon us and destroy us all… The South holds the balance of power. By annexing Texas, I can do away with this evil. As soon as Texas was annexed, I would liberate the slaves in two or three States, indemnifying * their owners*, and send the negroes to Texas, and from Texas to Mexico, where all colors are alike. And if that was not sufficient, I would call upon Canada, and annex it. (Vol. 6, p. 244)”

In one part he talks about setting them free, then in another part he talks about buying (compensating) them from their owners and sending them to Texas.

Indemnifying their owners is the same thing as purchasing them.

WOW! That’s a new one for me!

I’m sure the LDS will be quick to say he was speaking as a man, not as a prophet.

It’s just so tidy and neat when you can discard the bits you don’t like and keep the ones you do! Even ones that you used to say were OK, when they become a problem, just whisk them away! Extremely convenient! No pesky details to deal with!

It makes you wonder how long it will take before everything JS said is abandoned altogether, except, of course, that would present another problem…

 

[twopekinguys]

WOW! That’s a new one for me!

I’m sure the LDS will be quick to say he was speaking as a man, not as a prophet.

It’s just so tidy and neat when you can discard the bits you don’t like and keep the ones you do! Even ones that you used to say were OK, when they become a problem, just whisk them away! Extremely convenient! No pesky details to deal with!

It makes you wonder how long it will take before everything JS said is abandoned altogether, except, of course, that would present another problem…

I’m sure he was “misquoted” too.

It truly is odd how things he said can be so easily dismissed when it doesn’t show him in a glowing light. But if it does show him in that light (I haven’t seen anything), then of course he said it, he was right, he was a prophet, etc.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Actually, I accept nothing he said, as quoted by someone else without question. I always know that someone is relating what he said. Now of course, there are mormons who may not know that such things are second hand accounts because they do not look at the reference. But I never accept anything at face value.

I like that. Thank you

 

[Kdesiel]

I’m sure he was “misquoted” too.

It truly is odd how things he said can be so easily dismissed when it doesn’t show him in a glowing light. But if it does show him in that light (I haven’t seen anything), then of course he said it, he was right, he was a prophet, etc.

So when is J.Smith speaking as a Prophet and when is he speaking as just a man?
How does the LDS Church differentiate between his “Revelations” and his opinions?
Why would the Church promote a collective of his writings, market and sell them if those writings were of no spiritual value? Why would the LDS promote a book, sell this book in their book stores, have other high up authorities within the church quote said works if they were a collective of “Misquoted” second hand notes?

The “Quotes” that fall in line with Mormon Doctrine(not the book)are used as (name removed by moderator)iration and the quotes which are a bit radical and inconsistant to Mormon Doctrine are written off as “Misquotes” or unreliable Second or Third hand “Notes”?

 

[AdamC]

“I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam.”

WRONG! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints had a split, which resulted in the foundation of The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This new church is now known as “Community of Christ”.

 

[Kdesiel]

WRONG! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints had a split, which resulted in the foundation of The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This new church is now known as “Community of Christ”.

Good Point… I almost forgot all about the Community of Christ.

Didn’t the Community of Christ come into existence after J.Smith died?

Also you have the Strang Sect and a couple others…

 

[lax16]

WRONG! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints had a split, which resulted in the foundation of The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This new church is now known as “Community of Christ”.

Also didn’t some of the first founders of Mormonism leave the church?