Interesting Joseph Smith Quotes

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whyme - if you accuse me of lying one more time I will have to report you. If you want the facts I will give them to you privately. Otherwise, stop.

Your belittling is most unbecoming.
Well, lax so many negative things have been said about mormons on these threads, that it is really numbing and insulting to all mormons. The entire mormon threads need to be reported. I find the whole thing disgusting and very disturbing. And I see no christian intent at all. See the mormon threads from a mormon point of view. I have never seen such antimormonism in my life. You are okay…but when your posts are put together with other catholic posts, the mormons come out as the devil’s children.

I can only hope that the moderators will close them down.

And the mormon posters have departed because they feel the hatred. Where is diana and parker? And Zernius? Or Mfbukowski? They feel the hatred and the insults very strongly.
 
Well, lax so many negative things have been said about mormons on these threads, that it is really numbing and insulting to all mormons. The entire mormon threads need to be reported. I find the whole thing disgusting and very disturbing. And I see no christian intent at all. See the mormon threads from a mormon point of view. I have never seen such antimormonism in my life. You are okay…but when your posts are put together with other catholic posts, the mormons come out as the devil’s children.

I can only hope that the moderators will close them down.

And the mormon posters have departed because they feel the hatred. Where is diana and parker? And Zernius? Or Mfbukowski? They feel the hatred and the insults very strongly.
whyme - How many times do the sex abuse scandals get brought up on these posts? All the time.
If you or any other Mormon poster (I am going to assume you are Mormon from the many things you have said) claimed to have been mistreated by someone who was Catholic, I would feel bad about it. I would not automatically assume that because someone shares my faith that I have to defend them. Let the facts speak for themselves and don’t belittle people’s pain. It really doesn’t come off well at all. In fact, it proves the point that was being made.
Circle the wagons and make the outsiders feel ostracized.

I hope you get around to answering my questions before the mods close it down. I have so many that seem to go unanswered these days!
 
whyme - if you accuse me of lying one more time I will have to report you. If you want the facts I will give them to you privately. Otherwise, stop.

Your belittling is most unbecoming.
Lax, you’re way too kind.
 
whyme - How many times do the sex abuse scandals get brought up on these posts? All the time.
If you or any other Mormon poster (I am going to assume you are Mormon from the many things you have said) claimed to have been mistreated by someone who was Catholic, I would feel bad about it. I would not automatically assume that because someone shares my faith that I have to defend them. Let the facts speak for themselves and don’t belittle people’s pain. It really doesn’t come off well at all. In fact, it proves the point that was being made.
Circle the wagons and make the outsiders feel ostracized.

I hope you get around to answering my questions before the mods close it down. I have so many that seem to go unanswered these days!
Sex abuse scandals? We had one here, right in our town. A Mormon Bishop. It was disgusting. I felt very sorry for his wife, who I knew, and who was totally humiliated by the situation.

It would be a total fallacy to believe that any organization has a monopoly on sin.

Am I saying the abuses in the Catholic church didn’t occur or are not important to resolve? NO. But the Catholic Church happens to be a big target. As it happens, there are plenty of other examples and, collectively, those examples far exceed those of the Catholic church. Yet we seldom see that reported, why?

Bottomline ~ the Mormon church is not innocent in these matters and has no right to cast stones.

Lax, I’ll send you a PM if you accept them.
 
Barnes accuses anyone who disagrees with him as lying. I told him what the Holy Spirit conveyed to me and suddenly I was a liar. I told a Mormon, coulda been Whyme, I was a returned missionary. he called me a liar. I posted pics on my profile to show I was not lying, and was told I would never get an apology.

Look, it is clear that the truth has riled some people. I suggest we pray for them and that they find peace. God led me out, He can someday lead these folks out. I was a very staunch Mormon until God led me out. Can you imagine how wonderful it would be to have Barnes and Whyme, etc defending the Catholic Church? We just need to pray to God to work on them with love and guidance
 
Barnes accuses anyone who disagrees with him as lying. I told him what the Holy Spirit conveyed to me and suddenly I was a liar. I told a Mormon, coulda been Whyme, I was a returned missionary. he called me a liar. I posted pics on my profile to show I was not lying, and was told I would never get an apology.

Look, it is clear that the truth has riled some people. I suggest we pray for them and that they find peace. God led me out, He can someday lead these folks out. I was a very staunch Mormon until God led me out. Can you imagine how wonderful it would be to have Barnes and Whyme, etc defending the Catholic Church? We just need to pray to God to work on them with love and guidance
Sir Thomas, please tell the full truth. I consistently answered your questions in an ecumenical manner. I consistently said that the Holy Spirit was active in your life. I said that you following the Spirit being a Catholic. What you kept pushing for is an answer to how did the Holy Spirit answer me in the affirmative and you in the negative? You would take none of the answers I provided until your demanded that I answer how. Only then did I say that the Spirit does not lie and that you had to be lying about your answer you say was given you on the veracity of the Book of Mormon. The only other answer is that a different spirit was answering your question.

Why did the Holy Spirit tell me the Book of Mormon was true? Why did the Holy Spirit confirm countless times that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored Church of Jesus Christ? How do you reconcile my answers versus your answers. The answer of someone is lying is not available to you because you have condemned my use of it. I look forward to your explanation.
 
Barnes accuses anyone who disagrees with him as lying. I told him what the Holy Spirit conveyed to me and suddenly I was a liar. I told a Mormon, coulda been Whyme, I was a returned missionary. he called me a liar. I posted pics on my profile to show I was not lying, and was told I would never get an apology.

Look, it is clear that the truth has riled some people. I suggest we pray for them and that they find peace. God led me out, He can someday lead these folks out. I was a very staunch Mormon until God led me out. Can you imagine how wonderful it would be to have Barnes and Whyme, etc defending the Catholic Church? We just need to pray to God to work on them with love and guidance
Calling someone a liar is not permitted on these fora. Every instance should be reported for moderator action.

I agree that we should also pray for such persons, but that doesn’t change our obligation to report actions that are contrary to forum rules.
 
Sir Thomas, please tell the full truth. I consistently answered your questions in an ecumenical manner.

Yes, you answered SOME questions. You did not answer THE question until I asked you why you were dodging

I consistently said that the Holy Spirit was active in your life. I said that you following the Spirit being a Catholic. What you kept pushing for is an answer to how did the Holy Spirit answer me in the affirmative and you in the negative? You would take none of the answers I provided until your demanded that I answer how.

Not entirely accurate. This did not go on as long as you make it sound. And yes, I posted THE question for a reason. Not sure why you responded to the thread at all if you did not want to answer the question

Only then did I say that the Spirit does not lie and that you had to be lying about your answer you say was given you on the veracity of the Book of Mormon. The only other answer is that a different spirit was answering your question.

Like I said…if The Spirit does not tell me what you want it to tell me, I am either lying OR it was not the Holy Spirit who talked to me. And see, you did not have to call me a liar. Since you claim you were trying so hard to be ecumenical, you could have said that for either one of us, it could be a different Spirit. But, somehow, you believe that only you know which is the true Spirit. Why? Because it is you? If someone does not agree with you, then that person is lying. That is wrong, Barnes. Mocking the Holy Spirit is a dangerous game. Mocking or belitting what the Spirit told me is horribly wrong. You do not have the right or authority to do that.

Why did the Holy Spirit tell me the Book of Mormon was true? Why did the Holy Spirit confirm countless times that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored Church of Jesus Christ? How do you reconcile my answers versus your answers. The answer of someone is lying is not available to you because you have condemned my use of it. I look forward to your explanation.

The answer is, I do not know. God knows. I asked myself that question many times. Why did the Spirit lead me into the LDS in the first place? Why did it lead me, at the age of 24 and a college grad, to leave my fiance and job and go on a mission? I do not know. Perhaps because it was the best route to get me to the Catholic Church. I know I became a little intrigued with it in Honduras because there were so many Catholic Churches there. I would marvel at how reverant people were in Catholic Churhes. Maybe God knew that finding an avenue to bring me closer to Him would be the way to lead me to the Catholic Church, a Church I never liked. Why has the Spirit told you things? I do not know. Maybe you are misguided. maybe you are following your heart instead of God’s call. Maybe the path to truth lies THRU the LDS Church like it did for me.

These are things above my pay grade. But, I do not believe you are lying. I believe you firmly believe in what you claim
 
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If something posted is factually inaccurate it should be simple to post authentic documentation to prove it.

This personal back and forth and accusations of anti-Mormonism/anti-Catholicism will not be tolerated.

Deal with the facts, not the polemics or you can expect moderator intervention.

 
I don’t think so. Mormons have strong ties to their families. They tend to pray together as a family in the morning during family prayer and in the evening for family prayer. They also say grace over breakfast, lunch and dinner as a family if the family is together for the meal. They also can read scripture together as a family, especially on Monday night.

And they build strong family bonds with one another. But yes, they do do baptism for the dead and they do do family history by trying to find their ancestors because they love them too.

Quite an amazing people, those mormons. 🙂
I believe that she was talking about extended family here.
 
Yes she was. 😉

I was talking about 3rd, 4th, 5th cousins, etc. In my experience most people don’t know their more distant cousins and other relatives, no matter whether they are Mormon or not.
My momma always said, “Anything past a first cousin, doesn’t count”.

Although, I do know several second cousins. (Sorry Mom!!:p)
 
Doesn’t change that you have the same problem as the Catholic Church. According to your definitions of Apostasy, the LDS Church is now a false Church
That claim works only if you consider that the original church that Christ began during His life time was false, or that the church that the original twelve administered was a false church, SirThomas.

In other words, you are begging the question. In order to BE an apostasy, there must be truth to apostacize FROM.
 
That claim works only if you consider that the original church that Christ began during His life time was false, or that the church that the original twelve administered was a false church, SirThomas.

In other words, you are begging the question. In order to BE an apostasy, there must be truth to apostacize FROM.
exactly. And sdince the LDS Church professed to have the trruth, then it is, by definition, in Apostasy now

Fortiunaltely, Jesus is neither a liar, weak, or cruel, and there was no total apostasy
 
Fortiunaltely, Jesus is neither a liar, weak, or cruel, and there was no total apostasy
But then again, if I were god watching the religious wars that occupied europe for several years, I may be dismayed and I might consider the fact, the no church is representing me. During the religious wars, the protestants and catholics were killing each other. That sounds like an apostacy to me.

But that is only my opinion of course.

Between 1560 and 1715, Europe witnessed only thirty years of international peace. The greatest “international” conflict of the period was the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648), a war that had its origins in the complicated religious and political environment of the period. In 1555, the Peace of Augsburg brought an end to religious wars in Central Europe by dividing the numerous German states between Catholic and Lutheran authority. Although each prince had the right to determine the religion of his subjects, it happened that Lutheranism continued to spread into catholic-held lands. The spread of Calvinism, not recognized at Augsburg, also increased tensions. By 1609, the Holy Roman Empire had fragmented into two hostile alliances – the Protestant Union and the Catholic League.

The Thirty Years’ War began in Bohemia, an area in which Germans and Czechs, and Lutherans, Calvinists and Catholics lived in relative peace. The peace was shattered when Ferdinand II (1578-1637) became the king of Bohemia in 1617. Ferdinand was a zealous Catholic and the Bohemian Protestants feared he would recatholicize Bohemia. In May 1618, the imperial governors were thrown from the windows of Prague Castle. Ferdinand was deposed and the crown was offered to Frederick V (1596-1632, also known as the Winter King) of the Palatinate. This act extended the war from Bohemia to the Holy Roman Empire itself. The Protestant Union under Frederick now faced the Catholic League behind Ferdinand, who was now emperor. The Bohemian phase of the Thirty Years’ War ended at the battle of the White Mountain in November 1620. With Bohemia in ruins, Ferdinand used the Jesuits to recatholicize the territory. The Czech nobility lost everything, the economy lay in ruins and half the population had been killed by war or plague.

The Battle of the White Mountain and the ultimate collapse of Bohemian Protestantism was a clear victory for Catholicism. With the Spanish Hapsburgs intervening in the Protestant states of north Germany and numerous Catholic League victories, Protestantism faced a grave challenge. The king of Demark joined the Protestants in 1625 but he was more interested in territory and within a year his forces had been repelled by the military brilliance of Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634), and his army of over 100,000 mercenaries. Although Wallenstein tried to build a military power capable of wiping out Protestantism, it soon became clear that his goals were of a more personal nature. Religion seemed to take a back seat as the Thirty Years’ War became a war between warring states. In 1629, Denmark withdrew from the war leaving Wallenstein and his army in charge. Ferdinand issued the Edict of Restitution that restored to Catholics all land confiscated by the Protestants since 1552.

In 1630, the “Lion of the North,” Gustavus Adolphus (1594-1632) entered the war in order to protect Sweden’s interests in the Baltic which Wallenstein had threatened. His greater aim was a federation of German Protestant states under his authority. Although Wallenstein’s armies sacked the city of Magdeburg (May 1631), Gustavus won a crucial victory several months later at Breitenfeld in Saxony and marched to the Rhine. Meanwhile, Wallenstein was recalled by Ferdinand at the request of the Catholic League. Gustavus defeated Wallenstein at Lützen but was killed in the battle. Without the leadership of Gustavus, Sweden could no longer maintain its presence in Germany.

It was at this time that France entered the war. Cardinal Richelieu (1585-1642) had been following the events of the Thirty Years’ War for some time. Aiming to crush the Austrian and Spanish Hapsburgs, Richelieu accepted any allies regardless of their religion. In 1635, he declared war on Spain and formed an alliance with Sweden and Germany. The war was waged for another thirteen years but it was not until 1643 at the battle of Rocroi in the Netherlands that the Spanish Hapsburgs were finally defeated by France and its allies.

Now this is just an excerpt from the site below. But if I were god, I would not be happy.

historyguide.org/earlymod/lecture6c.html
 
But then again, if I were god watching the religious wars that occupied europe for several years, I may be dismayed and I might consider the fact, the no church is representing me. During the religious wars, the protestants and catholics were killing each other. That sounds like an apostacy to me.

But that is only my opinion of course.

Between 1560 and 1715, Europe witnessed only thirty years of international peace. The greatest “international” conflict of the period was the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648), a war that had its origins in the complicated religious and political environment of the period. In 1555, the Peace of Augsburg brought an end to religious wars in Central Europe by dividing the numerous German states between Catholic and Lutheran authority. Although each prince had the right to determine the religion of his subjects, it happened that Lutheranism continued to spread into catholic-held lands. The spread of Calvinism, not recognized at Augsburg, also increased tensions. By 1609, the Holy Roman Empire had fragmented into two hostile alliances – the Protestant Union and the Catholic League.

The Thirty Years’ War began in Bohemia, an area in which Germans and Czechs, and Lutherans, Calvinists and Catholics lived in relative peace. The peace was shattered when Ferdinand II (1578-1637) became the king of Bohemia in 1617. Ferdinand was a zealous Catholic and the Bohemian Protestants feared he would recatholicize Bohemia. In May 1618, the imperial governors were thrown from the windows of Prague Castle. Ferdinand was deposed and the crown was offered to Frederick V (1596-1632, also known as the Winter King) of the Palatinate. This act extended the war from Bohemia to the Holy Roman Empire itself. The Protestant Union under Frederick now faced the Catholic League behind Ferdinand, who was now emperor. The Bohemian phase of the Thirty Years’ War ended at the battle of the White Mountain in November 1620. With Bohemia in ruins, Ferdinand used the Jesuits to recatholicize the territory. The Czech nobility lost everything, the economy lay in ruins and half the population had been killed by war or plague.

The Battle of the White Mountain and the ultimate collapse of Bohemian Protestantism was a clear victory for Catholicism. With the Spanish Hapsburgs intervening in the Protestant states of north Germany and numerous Catholic League victories, Protestantism faced a grave challenge. The king of Demark joined the Protestants in 1625 but he was more interested in territory and within a year his forces had been repelled by the military brilliance of Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634), and his army of over 100,000 mercenaries. Although Wallenstein tried to build a military power capable of wiping out Protestantism, it soon became clear that his goals were of a more personal nature. Religion seemed to take a back seat as the Thirty Years’ War became a war between warring states. In 1629, Denmark withdrew from the war leaving Wallenstein and his army in charge. Ferdinand issued the Edict of Restitution that restored to Catholics all land confiscated by the Protestants since 1552.

In 1630, the “Lion of the North,” Gustavus Adolphus (1594-1632) entered the war in order to protect Sweden’s interests in the Baltic which Wallenstein had threatened. His greater aim was a federation of German Protestant states under his authority. Although Wallenstein’s armies sacked the city of Magdeburg (May 1631), Gustavus won a crucial victory several months later at Breitenfeld in Saxony and marched to the Rhine. Meanwhile, Wallenstein was recalled by Ferdinand at the request of the Catholic League. Gustavus defeated Wallenstein at Lützen but was killed in the battle. Without the leadership of Gustavus, Sweden could no longer maintain its presence in Germany.

It was at this time that France entered the war. Cardinal Richelieu (1585-1642) had been following the events of the Thirty Years’ War for some time. Aiming to crush the Austrian and Spanish Hapsburgs, Richelieu accepted any allies regardless of their religion. In 1635, he declared war on Spain and formed an alliance with Sweden and Germany. The war was waged for another thirteen years but it was not until 1643 at the battle of Rocroi in the Netherlands that the Spanish Hapsburgs were finally defeated by France and its allies.

Now this is just an excerpt from the site below. But if I were god, I would not be happy.

historyguide.org/earlymod/lecture6c.html
But God was tickled pink with the MMM?
 
But then again, if I were god watching the religious wars that occupied europe for several years, I may be dismayed and I might consider the fact, the no church is representing me. During the religious wars, the protestants and catholics were killing each other. That sounds like an apostacy to me.
Note that God knew there would be sin and sinners inside and outside the Church. Remember He chose Judas.
Also remember He said let the weeds grow with the wheat until the time of harvest.

There will always be sinners and unbelivers but the Church stands.
 
Re: Interesting Joseph Smith Quotes

"Joseph looked into the hat in which he placed the stone, and received a revelation that some of the brethren should go to Toronto, Canada, and that they would sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon. Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery went to Toronto on this mission, but they failed entirely to sell the copyright, returning without any money.

Joseph…enquired of the Lord about it, and behold the following revelation came through the stone: “Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil.”…

  • David Witmer, AN ADDRESS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST, 1887
 
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