Interesting lecture from the Chairman of the BCL (re: liturgical translation)

[JKirkLVNV]

johnnykins:

Routinely my church celebrates the Missa Normativa with reverence, style, great music and usually very good homilies. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, I frequently (say about 1 time per month on average) have to attend elsewhere. Sometimes it approaches unbearable.

Now I didn’t say anything about “very good homilies!” That’s an entirely different topic altogether.

 

[arieh0310]

JKirkLVNV:

And while I’ve been witness to a several appalling liturgies, by and large, the Pauline Rite in my parish has been celebrated with reverence (but I cannot seem to convince anyone that this is POSSIBLE, let alone ACCURATE).

I believe you because I attend a reverent NO (although it has lots of smells and bells and Latin). I have also attended a 100% vernacular NO that was reverent and inspiring. Unfortunately, these are the exception and not the rule. I think tightening up the options in the NO and stricter enforcement of the rubrics, as well as, freeing the TLM would help tremendously.

 

[jimmy]

JKirkLVNV:

Now, Snorter, there is that term “orthodox” being batted around again. What teaching of the Church does the current translation (approved by the Holy See for the use of the faithful for these past years) set aside? Did you mean “more accurate when compared to the original?”

I don’t agree with anything the Bishop said, except the “dew of your spirit” thing. That’s sounds effeminate and silly, which was my opinion the last time this came up. But this is the only part I agree with, other than maintaining the use of the vernacular. Catholics find incarnate to be obscure?!?!?!?! The good bishop must think we just fell off the turnip truck.

What teaching? How about communion of the saints and prayer to the saints. That is one that is practically denied in the new mass.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

jimmy:

What teaching? How about communion of the saints and prayer to the saints. That is one that is practically denied in the new mass.

I don’t see that, esp. in the First Eucharistic Prayer. I converted as an adult LONG after the Council and I think I’ve got a good handle on the communion of saints and how they pray for us. It’s like the sign of the Cross: I hear people grumble about the relatively few times the priest makes the sign of the Cross in the Pauline Rite. Couldn’t that be a part of the “noble simplicity?”

 

[Elzee]

Andreas Hofer:

I doubt anyone could seriously fault a return to moderately employed Latin- it is, after all, explicitly called for in Sacrosanctum Concilium that the laity be able to sing the ordinary of the Mass.

Ha! Our priest doesn’t even want us to pronounce ‘Amen’ in Latin. He wants us to be sure and make the ‘A’ long because pronouncing it as an ‘Ah’ is the ‘Latin way’. I think he’d have a hard time with any amount of Latin being introduced.

While my personal preference wouldn’t be all-Latin, I would love some commonality in language around the world, like the Our Father and Lamb of God in Latin.

 

[jimmy]

JKirkLVNV:

I don’t see that, esp. in the First Eucharistic Prayer. I converted as an adult LONG after the Council and I think I’ve got a good handle on the communion of saints and how they pray for us. It’s like the sign of the Cross: I hear people grumble about the relatively few times the priest makes the sign of the Cross in the Pauline Rite. Couldn’t that be a part of the “noble simplicity?”

I have to admit. I had misread parts of the translation of the Eucharistic prayer and got the wrong impression. I was comparing the translation from my 1957 missal and my current missal and I was comparing different parts of the Eucharistic prayer without realizing it. So I have to admit that my perspective was wrong.

But if you do not say the EP1, which is very possible, there is no mention of the saints in Mass. In the old order of mass the Confiteor mentioned Mary, John the Baptist, Michael the Archangel, and Peter and Paul in the Confiteor. There were also prayers to St. Michael the Archangel during the Eucharistic part of the Mass and there were prayers of intercession to Mary. Now, there are no prayers to Mary, or St. Michael. The Confiteor struck all the saints names out. The EP1 is optional, but even when it is said the saints names are optional(if you look at the missal you will see that they are in brackets). EP1 is the one remnant of intercessory prayer left in the mass.

 

[jimmy]

I would like to see the Agnus Dei; the Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus; and the Gloria; and the Our Father; and the Confiteor in Latin. These prayers are prayers that everyone should know and should not be difficult to learn in the latin as well. They could have the rest of the liturgy in English and it would be fine.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

jimmy:

I would like to see the Agnus Dei; the Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus; and the Gloria; and the Our Father; and the Confiteor in Latin. These prayers are prayers that everyone should know and should not be difficult to learn in the latin as well. They could have the rest of the liturgy in English and it would be fine.

I agree, except for the Confiteor and the Our Father, though I think we should know how to say the Our Father in Latin. The Confietor (“I confess…that *I *have sinned”). It’s a corportate confession, but it’s done in the first person, so it should, I think, remain in the vernacular. But that’s just my opinion.