Interesting notes

[gurrato_alaien]

Peace

I have read some facts after that it came to my attention some questions.

It’s really incredible

1. It is estimated that the Universe is as much as 20 billion light years in diameter (i.e., the distance it would take light to travel across the Universe at a speed of over 186,000 miles per second).
2. There are an estimated one billion galaxies in the Universe, and an estimated 25 sextillion stars.
3. The Milky Way galaxy in which we live contains over 100 billion stars, and is so large that even traveling at the speed of light would require 100,000 years to cross its diameter.
4. If we drew a map of the Milky Way galaxy, and represented the Earth and Sun as two dots one inch apart (thus a scale of one inch equals 93 million miles-the distance between the Earth and the Sun), we would need a map at least four miles wide to locate the next nearest star, and a map 25,000 miles wide to reach the center of our galaxy.
5. The Sun’s interior temperature is estimated to be over 20 million degrees Celsius.
6. The Earth is rotating on its axis at 1,000 miles per hour at the equator, and moving around the Sun at 70,000 miles per hour (approximately 19 miles per second).
7. The Sun and its solar system are moving through space at 600,000 miles
   per hour in an orbit so large it would take over 220 million years just to complete a single orbit.
8. The Earth is tilted on its axis at exactly 23.5 degrees. Were that tilt to be reduced to zero, much of the Earth’s water would accumulate around the
   two poles, leaving vast deserts in its place.

Now these great facts and more the great creations are indicating that there is a very very great Creator (God) who creates all these Great things.

But what makes me a very surprised from brothers Christians is that how they think that Prophet Jesus (PBUH) has created all these and take care of all these while he was walking on the earth as any man, who take care of the universe while he is on the earth?

Another question don’t think that you make a blasphemy and reducing God’s value when you attribute a son to God almighty?

Peace

 

[exoflare]

gurrato alaien:

Now these great facts and more the great creations are indicating that there is a very very great Creator (God) who creates all these Great things.

But what makes me a very surprised from brothers Christians is that how they think that Prophet Jesus (PBUH) has created all these and take care of all these while he was walking on the earth as any man, who take care of the universe while he is on the earth?

Another question don’t think that you make a blasphemy and reducing God’s value when you attribute a son to God almighty?

Peace

You’re making statements you have no clue about. When you learn to finally step outside your cultural/religious bubble and stop having to mix Muslim assumptions in with all our beliefs, we’ll be more than happy to explain them to you.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Brother, I think when you explain what you believe to others that does not mean you mix your faith with all others beliefs.

 

[tee_eff_em]

gurrato alaien:

Now these great facts and more the great creations are indicating that there is a very very great Creator (God) who creates all these Great things.

But what makes me a very surprised from brothers Christians is that how they think that Prophet Jesus (PBUH) has created all these and take care of all these while he was walking on the earth as any man, who take care of the universe while he is on the earth?

Christians believe the second person of the Trinity, God-almighty, Jesus, created all these things and held all these things in existence while he was walking on the earth as any man, because he did not stop being God while he was walking on the earth. You would not think it impossible for God to hold the universe together, would you?
gurrato alaien:

Another question don’t think that you make a blasphemy and reducing God’s value when you attribute a son to God almighty?

Can you reduce the value of something of infinite value? If God’s value was reduced (whatever that might mean) by his humbling himself to become a man, He did it to increase our value. Why? Such is the mystery of God’s love.

PS.
Modulo expansion, the size of the universe is 20 billion lightyears no matter what speed one might attempt to traverse it.

tee

 

[sainted]

gurrato alaien:

Peace

Now these great facts and more the great creations are indicating that there is a very very great Creator (God) who creates all these Great things.

Who doesn’t agree with this!!

But what makes me a very surprised from brothers Christians is that how they think that Prophet Jesus (PBUH) has created all these and take care of all these while he was walking on the earth as any man, who take care of the universe while he is on the earth?

Who can go against God’s plan.

Another question don’t think that you make a blasphemy and reducing God’s value when you attribute a son to God almighty?

The answer is within yourself. You only need to appreciate the facts you posted a bit more. If you believe in all those things, naturally you would believe God to be even far more bigger than His creation would’nt you?
If you agree with me that God is even bigger than the universe then understanding His magnitude and infinite nature and power is near incomprehensible, right?
That is why we follow the teaching of the bible that it is a mystery by which we can only follow and appreciate it by faith.

You see it’s not as easy as 2+1=3 or 1+1+1=3. The problem is you’re trying to fit something that is infinitely bigger than the universe itself into 1400cc of matter in your skull. You might probably need a brain size of 100 billion light years in circumference to maybe understand one-thousandth of God.

Your faith would be more acceptable to God then trying to understand and question Him. Remember we are only human!!

 

[gurrato_alaien]

tee_eff_em:

Christians believe the second person of the Trinity, God-almighty, Jesus, created all these things and held all these things in existence while he was walking on the earth as any man, because he did not stop being God while he was walking on the earth. You would not think it impossible for God to hold the universe together, would you?

Can you reduce the value of something of infinite value? If God’s value was reduced (whatever that might mean) by his humbling himself to become a man, He did it to increase our value. Why? Such is the mystery of God’s love.

PS.
Modulo expansion, the size of the universe is 20 billion lightyears no matter what speed one might attempt to traverse it.

tee

Peace be upon you brother,

Since prophet Jesus (pbuh) was eating, drinking, weeping, walking and has been circumcised that means he was totally 100% human. And the human can’t take care of the universe.

Peace

 

[tee_eff_em]

I pray that someday you may allow yourself to believe in the all-powerful God.

The Divinity of Christ

tee

 

[cute2904]

gurrato alaien:

Peace be upon you brother,

Since prophet Jesus (pbuh) was eating, drinking, weeping, walking and has been circumcised that means he was totally 100% human. And the human can’t take care of the universe.

Peace

God can do anything! Just as in the act of creation, God’s eternal Word came out of Him when He spoke to create all things (but He did not become two gods), so when he spoke His eternal Word into the virgin Mary, God’s Word remained God and at the same time became a man like us. Jesus never stopped being almighty Allah’s Eternal Word. It says, ‘The Word became flesh …’ (John 1:14); not ‘The Word changed to flesh.’ He is not sometimes God and sometimes man, nor is He half God and half man. He is both fully God and fully human at the same time.

“but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,” Hebrews 1:2-3

 

[sainted]

Hallo again brother gurrato alaien,

Are you here to understand or are you here to refute?
We know all too well the things atrributed to Jesus your saying and you can cite more but the same answer you’ll get.
If you are here to understand albeit my earlier post then let me say, ‘you will never understand it’ … sorry!!

You need a greater faith whereby you allow the Holy Spirit to open up your heart’s mind to comprehend it. The Holy Spirit is not forced into anybody who has no place in his heart for. It is a gift from God to whoever has the freewill to accept it. That’s why Jesus says, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.” (Matthew 5:9). The billion plus catholics alive today who comprehend this concept is a testimony of the work of this same Holy Spirit of God. It could have never been possible without.

On the other hand you can never refute something you cannot understand.

Peace be with you brother.

 

[exoflare]

sainted:

On the other hand you can never refute something you cannot understand.

LOL that sums it up just about perfectly.

 

[memnoch_lover]

divinity cannot be renounced it is the nature of God. That is why when Jesus became man , he remains God at thesame time. In short divinity remains but it assumes (not substituted) human nature.

That is why the church says that Jesus is true man and true God. THe divinity of jesus assumes(not substituted) human nature. That is why what is said about human nature is true to jesus excapt that he has no sin. And what said said about God is also true in Jesus.

Being true man …Jesus is said to be emmanuel God with us as foretold by isaiah,Jesus gives dignity to our human existence. being God what jesus does is of infinite value. That is why at the time of atonement of the cross God Father cannot refuse the sacrifice made by jesus because the Value of the sacrifice is infinite , enough to pat the sin of mankind.

Hence… the second person of the trinity who is divine and infinite assumes human nature and is called in his human existence Jesus. He is infinite as to his divinity and finite as to his humanity.
indeed a true mediator between God and man… a bridge of the infinite Gap.

 

[contemplative]

For thousands and thousands of years the earth has been ploughed and sown, human beings have trampled it and excavated it for minerals, the rain has beaten on it, the snow has covered it, the sun has scorched it. And yet the earth has remained such as it is, and its fruits have remained the same too.

Nor has the sea changed by growing either smaller or large, despite its water evaporating and them falling again as rain, despite the rivers opening into it from every direction.

It is the same with the air. It is not used up, although so many human beings and animals are continually breathing it, despite all the light and heat that are always permeating it.

The fact is that God is at work in the world, the same God who infuses into creation the energy needed for it to continue stable throughout all time.

To God then let us raise a hymn of praise with all our strength. Let us glorify God who made the world and governs it without ceasing.

And through the things that are seen let us be led towards the things that are not seen. To do this there is no need to travel. Only faith is needed, because only through faith can we see him.

Theodoret (394-460) From the cure of Pagan Diseases

 

[Edris]

gurrato alaien:

Peace

I have read some facts after that it came to my attention some questions.

It’s really incredible

   *"Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which is of use to mankind, and the water (rain) which Allâh sends down from the sky and makes the earth alive therewith after its death, and the moving (living) creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein, and in the veering of winds and clouds which are held between the sky and the earth, are indeed Ayât (signs) **for people of understanding**."    * (Qur'an 2:164)


       Brother,  the facts that u mentioned about the universe are really incredible,  but you are missing the whole point,  the people you are trying to reach to, they can't understand simple math, and they lack commonsense, the numbers you mentioned are just too much for them.  


1)   One God made of three persons.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three Gods, they are one God !!
3 Gods = 1 God

2)   Jesus was 100% man,  and 100% God !!!
                    100% Man = 100% God

3)   4 Gospels are the same as Jesus's Gospel !!!!
                      4 Gospels = 1 Gospel

 etc.......

Now commonsense

  1)  "Jesus the son of David,  the son of Abraham"   and then ."Amen, Amen,  I say to you before Abraham was I AM".

Now you have to admit this is easy to understand, Unlike “Sister of Aaron” that was and still very complicated.

    *“And they say, "Our hearts are wrapped (i.e. do not hear or understand Allâh's Word)" Nay, Allâh has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is that which they believe”*  (Qur’an 2:88)

  2)   God inspired Mathew to write the Gospel,  yet God Forgot to inspire Mathew to write down his own name in the genealogy of "his Son". !!      Everyone is mentioned in the genealogy of "son of God"  except for God.

  3)   The Christian God is the God of Love.    Yet he crucified his own son to save all the human race from a sin committed by one person and guess what that person wasn't his son.  How lovely is that.   But come and  think about it makes a lot of sense.  If 1 God = 3 Gods,   then 1 person commits a sin =  Billions of "Persons" committing sin.   See just use commonsense.


 4)   I noticed a new thread called "Muhammad & Satan",   i wasn't surprised though, due to the nature of the person who started that thread.   

   Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

       God did according to (2 Samuel 24: 1)

       Satan did according to (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
                                            
  First recognize your God from Satan,  then, come and talk about "Muhammad and Satan".

---

These and much more is why christianity is losing it’s followers to Islam. even CNN can’t deny it cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

Washington Report: washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605013.htm

Washington Post: washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A27758-2001Jan6&notFound=true

"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " Encyclopedia Britannica
geocities.com/Pentagon/3016/fastest.htm

**"They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allâh's Light (with which Muhammad has been sent - Islâmic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kâfirûn (disbelievers) hate (it)."**    (Qur'an 9:32)

Peace

 

[exoflare]

1) One God made of three persons.
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three Gods, they are one God !!
** 3 Gods = 1 God**

The claim that each person is a God was your claim, not ours. How can you be so prideful if you have to lie about others’ beliefs to get your point across?

 

[Faith101]

peace Ladies and Gentlemen

this discussion is pointless, because a Muslim’s fundamental belief about God is differnent than that of a Christian’s.

Christians believe it is part of God’s love that He comes down on this earth and suffers for them. Muslims believe that it is above His majesty to do that (not that he CANT, just that He said He WONT)…and since He can forgive us without all of that, than there is no need for Him to do that.

Christians (please do correct me if i’m wrong) believe that part of the beauty of God, is His mystery, namely the Trinity…that no one on the face of the earth can logically explain. Muslims believe that God is not a God of confusion (to steal a verse from the Bible) and that while He does not fully explain Himself…what He does explain is in sync with the minds that He created, keeping us steadfast and unwavering in our faith.

In the end we will all stand in front of our Creator and be held accountable for everything we accepted and everything we rejected. May God guide us to the straight path before that time comes…and may we all be in His presence for eternity. Ameen.

 

[JimG]

Faith101:

Christians believe it is part of God’s love that He comes down on this earth and suffers for them. Muslims believe that it is above His majesty to do that (not that he CANT, just that He said He WONT)…and since He can forgive us without all of that, than there is no need for Him to do that.

Christians (please do correct me if i’m wrong) believe that part of the beauty of God, is His mystery, namely the Trinity…that no one on the face of the earth can logically explain.

Christians believe in three Persons in One God only because it was revealed by Jesus. The nature of God is not something that humanity can figure out without revelation.

But having been revealed, we can at least think about it. Before discussing the nature of the Trinity, one ought to begin with the attributes of God, such as eternity, omnipresence, omnipotence, all-merciful, all-loving, all-good, etc. Each attribute or quality that we can state of God is identified with his Divine nature. So those attributes are not separate, but one.

God is pure Spirit, not material. This is a distinction I do not find being made in Islam. Neither have I found, at least on this forum, a discussion of the attributes of God as he is in Himself, or the nature of spirit as distinguished from matter.

From God’s nature as pure infinite spirit, we can go on to discuss his knowledge and will, and then on to a discussion of the Trinity. But it is difficult to do with anyone who has not read some basic Christian theology, such as this.

From what I have seen on this forum, Muslim’s seem generally unwilling to discuss God in a philosophical manner aside from what may be found in the Quran.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Peace be upon you all

The problem with brothers Christians is that they don’t esteem God as He hath the right to be esteemed
As far as I see the universe, it makes me wonder how they worship the false God. I mean how they associate partners to God.

Let us see what God almighty says to them.

022.073
O people! a parable is set forth, therefore listen to it: surely those whom you call upon besides Allah cannot create fly, though they should all gather for it, and should the fly snatch away anything from them, they could not take it back from i weak are the invoker and the invoked.

039.067
And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand. Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).

022.074
They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty.

Peace be upon those who are righteous guided.

 

[exoflare]

gurrato alaien:

Peace be upon you all

The problem with brothers Christians is that they don’t esteem God as He hath the right to be esteemed
As far as I see the universe, it makes me wonder how they worship the false God. I mean how they associate partners to God.

Let us see what God almighty says to them.

039.067
And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand. Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).

022.073
O people! a parable is set forth, therefore listen to it: surely those whom you call upon besides Allah cannot create fly, though they should all gather for it, and should the fly snatch away anything from them, they could not take it back from i weak are the invoker and the invoked.

022.074
They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty.

Peace be upon those who are righteous guided.

Please see the big red paragraph I just posted in “Mary, sister of Aaron”… That post was addressed to Christians, but to be fair you’d do well to think about it too before posting stuff like this.

 

[JimG]

gurrato alaien:

Peace be upon you all

The problem with brothers Christians is that they don’t esteem God as He hath the right to be esteemed
As far as I see the universe, it makes me wonder how they worship the false God. I mean how they associate partners to God.

Let us see what God almighty says to them.

You seem to reinforce the point I was trying to make in my previous post, since you immediately go to quoting the Quran as your only source of justification for this. If you ever read the works of F.J. Sheed, Thomas Aquinas, the church Fathers, and other theologians, you could see that Christians esteem God to the highest possible degree (latria, the worship due to one’s Creator.)

Christians don’t believe that God has partners. We believe that there can be only One God because there is only One Divine Nature. But there is a distinction between nature and person. (What you are vs Who you are.)

The nature and attributes of God is more of a subject for theology than argument. But you have to be willing to apply your God-given reason to sources other than the Quran.

 

[cute2904]

JimG:

You seem to reinforce the point I was trying to make in my previous post, since you immediately go to quoting the Quran as your only source of justification for this. If you ever read the works of F.J. Sheed, Thomas Aquinas, the church Fathers, and other theologians, you could see that Christians esteem God to the highest possible degree (latria, the worship due to one’s Creator.)

Christians don’t believe that God has partners. We believe that there can be only One God because there is only One Divine Nature. But there is a distinction between nature and person. (What you are vs Who you are.)

The nature and attributes of God is more of a subject for theology than argument. But you have to be willing to apply your God-given reason to sources other than the Quran.

agree