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PrayForMeStJude
Guest
Thankfully faithful groups of men and women religious are returning to the use of their proper habits!
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JReducation
Guest
We have to be very careful. Many who do not wear habits are also very faithful men and women religious. I know the Missionary Brothers of Charity, founded by Mother Teresa. You would never know one if you passed him on the street. When you see them at work, prayer and in community life, there is no doubt that they are truly brothers to each other and to the poor. They don’t wear a habit. Mother Teresa prohibited it, because the habit is not an Indian custom. Her order had to dress as Indians dress. Indian men don’t wear robes, crucifixes or a particular religious garb as did European religious men.
The Brothers of Mary are unrecognizable, However, this is what makes them very faithful. The founder prohibited a habit or any distinctive sign. He wanted his brothers to be blend in with secular educators. Therefore, they never wear a habit or a collar. They never had one.
The Sisters of Charity of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton have an interesting story regarding the habit. St. Elizabeth never created a habit for them. The early sisters loved her so dearly that they adopted the widow’s garb that she wore until her death. It was not a habit. Elizabeth dressed in her morning clothes, because she mourned her husband until her own death. In the 1980s, Pope John Paul would tell them to put aside the widow’s garb, because Elizabeth did not wear it because she was a sister, but because she was a widow. There is a letter that was found among the belongings of Bishop John Carroll, who co-founded the Sisters of Charity with Mother Seton. In this letter, Mother brought several things to the attention of the bishop as conditions for accepting the position as superior of the Sisters of Charity.
She would not be bound to wear a religious habit, because it would create a barrier between her and her children. She would not live in a cloister. She would never make perpetual vows, but renew them annually, leaving her free to leave religious life if her children needed her. She would bring her children into the community house, which would never be called a convent, because she did not want her children growing up in a convent. She wanted them to grow up in a home.
These women who follow her lead today are being very faithful religious. We would not want the Sisters of Charity to be anything different from what St. Elizabeth Ann had in mind.
Whenever you think about religious and faithfulness, try to think of the founder. If possible, try to find out something about the founder’s wishes for his or her community. That’s how you can judge faithfulness.
There are many religious who deviated from the vision of the founder and they paid a dear price. There are also many who are very faithful to their founders and are being unjustly accused of being less than faithful, because they are different from what we imagine a religious should be.
I’ll offer one more example, the Poor Clares. Many people do not know that in the rule for the Poor Clares, St. Francis and St. Clare said some rather radical things about the nuns’ habits. They were to be practical. They were to accommodate to the local culture. They were to accommodate the personality and tastes of the sisters. They were to be modest and simple. There is nothing in the Poor Clares’ rule that describes the habit. Therefore, you have 20,000 Poor Clares around the world in more than 500 different forms of dress, from suits to very complicated Benedictine habits. All of these women are being faithful to St. Francis and St. Clare, even the ones in simple suits. Actually, they’re more like Catholic school uniforms.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Earnest_Bunbury
Guest
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Aramis
Guest
He’s in the Western Dominican Province, I believe.Could you give me a link to the website of the Order he is from? Finding Dominicans that wear blue capes and not white ones is like pulling teeth.
The WDP also is the stronghold of the Dominican Rite in the US…
And it’s black, not blue, that the dominican cappa negra is. (Cappa Negra is literally “Cloak of Black.”)
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AJV
Guest
A “habit” of sorts, is very much an Indian custom, which is why many of the orders in India now use colours from beige-ish to saffron, instead of their traditional colours, which is what some of the other religious traditions use. The brothers do not wear habits because of the nature of their work.
Actually, the Marists did, and it was St. Champagnat himself who gave them one in 1819 , which consisted of a particular style of black hat, black shoes, black trousers, a black buttoned coat that fell below the knee and a cape. The reason for this style was because they were not yet authorized to adopt a religious habit. When in 1824, they were approved by the apostolic administrator of Lyon, they adopted a blue coat and cape. After 1827, they adopted a buttoned cassock (buttons disappeared in 1828/29), and the white ‘collare’ in the style of a rectangular white linen piece hanging from the front – much like the French rabat. A crucifix was added later, and in 1829, cloth shoes were prescribed. In 1968, the decided to allow the adoption of a sort of clerical suit or ordinary clothes, according to the decision of each province.
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
That’s awesome. Do you know which specific province he lives in?
I know it’s black. I sometimes mix up the two words when I’m typing. It is pretty depressing to see that the majority of Dominicans wear all white instead of the traditional white and black, though. It makes you wonder what happened to the emphasis on important things…
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JReducation
Guest
That was not Mother’s reasoning. She explicitly said so in her constitutions.
I’m talking about the Marianists, founded by Bl. William Chaminade.
In other settings, some communities that wore habits in Europe did not wear them in other places. For example, when the Conventual Franciscans arrived in Japan, St. Maximilian Kolbe, who was the Guardian at the time, took away the habit.
We still have his letters where he writes the the friars who are going to join him in Japan. He tells them to leave the habits in Poland and travel in secular clothing until they reached China. In China they were to exchange the European shirt and slacks for the local dress. They wore the typical dress of the Japanese peasant so that you could not tell them apart from the local people, except that they were European.
In his letter, St. Maximilian commanded the friars not to bring Europe to Asia, but to Christianize the local culture using its customs. The Franciscan habit in Japan, Korea, Vietnam and a few other Asian countries was introduced as they became more open to Western dress, around the 1960s. To this day, it’s only worn in the metropolitan areas. St. Max’s prescription is still followed in the more remote areas where people wear more traditional clothing. We have photos of St. Max wearing typical peasant clothing.
For Franciscans this has never been a big thing, because we have never had a fixed habit. We don’t really know for sure what Francis’ habit looked like. The only garment that we have left is so tattered, because it’s 800 years old that all that’s left to it is the tunic. The rule and early writings do not contain a very specific habit. It contains a description of the clothing worn by farmers.
The Franciscan habit, as we know it, came into existence very gradually. The one worn by the Observants, which is the most commonly used Franciscan habit, is not the original version. It was designed by Pope Leo XIII in the 19th century when he erected the Leonine Union of Friars Minor. It is believed, but not proven, that the Capuchin Franciscans wear the closest habit to the original worn by the first friars, but their habit is brown and the original was not brown. From the tunic that we have in Assisi, it may have been a “mousy grey”.
Ignatius did not give his Society a habit either. They wore assorted forms of dress. The norm was to wear whatever the secular clergy wore. Today, most Jesuits wear a clerical shirt, both brothers and priests. That’s the common dress of most secular priests. The Jesuits in Spain wore a cassock, which looked like a cross between the cassock worn by the Roman clergy and the Oratorians. People often refer to it as the Jesuit Cassock. In reality, it’s not, since the statutes of the Jesuits do not mention it. I’m not sure how they came to that particular cassock. We know that they wore different clothing from country to country. St. Francis Xavier dressed like a friar, long tunic, belt and barefoot. The Jesuits tell that he would later exchange this form of dress for a suit in order to impress the Japanese emperor. He needed to win the emperor’s respect, the mendicant look was not going to do it.
There is a lot of diversity and praxis in religious dress, not as static as it was in Europe and its American colonies.
One of the oddest versions of a habit that I have seen was worn by a group of French Canadian sisters. I believe they were called The Grey Nuns. They wore a white cap with a white widows peak under a sheer veil, a rather strange looking head piece.
Among the new communities, the nicest habit that I have seen is that of the Missionaries of the Poor. It’s very simple and practical, easy to maintain too.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Aramis
Guest
Western Dominican Province. The one in California. He might not be at the priory.That’s awesome. Do you know which specific province he lives in?
I know it’s black. I sometimes mix up the two words when I’m typing. It is pretty depressing to see that the majority of Dominicans wear all white instead of the traditional white and black, though. It makes you wonder what happened to the emphasis on important things…
And I’ve been told that the Domincans have always removed the cappa negra and it’s mantle when the weather was warm enough. Every dominican friar I’ve known HAS the cappa negra. Including at least one of the Dominican Sisters.
I’ll note that the habit of the Nashville Dominican Sisters is just the white, with a black veil worn at times. Aside from cut, and the veil instead of the hood, it’s the same as the men’s habit: Floor length dress, belt, rosary, floor length scapular, mantle sans hood, white veil with black outer veil.
opblauvelt.blogspot.com/2009/07/evolution-of-habit.html shows the habits of the Blauvelt Dominican Sisters… with the over-veils being cloak-like, and wimples worn under the white veil.
opnuns.org/pages/home-page.htm has photos of nuns in cappa negra… no mantle… over the white. As well as a scan of an old painting showing the same
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PrayForMeStJude
Guest
All interesting information, but not directly related to the post of mine which you quoted. I expressed that it was good that many orders were returning to the use of their traditional habits. The word “return” of course implies a previous abandonment or turning away from these traditions. If an order never wore what we traditionally think of as a habit, they couldn’t return to it, could they? The groups you list are clearly exempt from whatever implications you wish to draw from my comment.We have to be very careful. Many who do not wear habits are also very faithful men and women religious. I know the Missionary Brothers of Charity, founded by Mother Teresa. You would never know one if you passed him on the street. When you see them at work, prayer and in community life, there is no doubt that they are truly brothers to each other and to the poor. They don’t wear a habit. Mother Teresa prohibited it, because the habit is not an Indian custom. Her order had to dress as Indians dress. Indian men don’t wear robes, crucifixes or a particular religious garb as did European religious men.
The Brothers of Mary are unrecognizable, However, this is what makes them very faithful. The founder prohibited a habit or any distinctive sign. He wanted his brothers to be blend in with secular educators. Therefore, they never wear a habit or a collar. They never had one.
The Sisters of Charity of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton have an interesting story regarding the habit. St. Elizabeth never created a habit for them. The early sisters loved her so dearly that they adopted the widow’s garb that she wore until her death. It was not a habit. Elizabeth dressed in her morning clothes, because she mourned her husband until her own death. In the 1980s, Pope John Paul would tell them to put aside the widow’s garb, because Elizabeth did not wear it because she was a sister, but because she was a widow. There is a letter that was found among the belongings of Bishop John Carroll, who co-founded the Sisters of Charity with Mother Seton. In this letter, Mother brought several things to the attention of the bishop as conditions for accepting the position as superior of the Sisters of Charity.
She would not be bound to wear a religious habit, because it would create a barrier between her and her children. She would not live in a cloister. She would never make perpetual vows, but renew them annually, leaving her free to leave religious life if her children needed her. She would bring her children into the community house, which would never be called a convent, because she did not want her children growing up in a convent. She wanted them to grow up in a home.
These women who follow her lead today are being very faithful religious. We would not want the Sisters of Charity to be anything different from what St. Elizabeth Ann had in mind.
Whenever you think about religious and faithfulness, try to think of the founder. If possible, try to find out something about the founder’s wishes for his or her community. That’s how you can judge faithfulness.
There are many religious who deviated from the vision of the founder and they paid a dear price. There are also many who are very faithful to their founders and are being unjustly accused of being less than faithful, because they are different from what we imagine a religious should be.
I’ll offer one more example, the Poor Clares. Many people do not know that in the rule for the Poor Clares, St. Francis and St. Clare said some rather radical things about the nuns’ habits. They were to be practical. They were to accommodate to the local culture. They were to accommodate the personality and tastes of the sisters. They were to be modest and simple. There is nothing in the Poor Clares’ rule that describes the habit. Therefore, you have 20,000 Poor Clares around the world in more than 500 different forms of dress, from suits to very complicated Benedictine habits. All of these women are being faithful to St. Francis and St. Clare, even the ones in simple suits. Actually, they’re more like Catholic school uniforms.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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JReducation
Guest
The Dominican nuns and the Dominican sisters always wore a black veil over the coif. The difference was that the nuns never wore a white underveil. This was added by the sisters to compensate for the change in the coif.
The original coif of the Dominican nuns was like that of the Carmelite nuns, very loose fitting. The coif adopted by the Dominicans sisters is form fitting. To fill in the space, they added a white under veil.
My point was not just for you, but for everyone who reads the thread. Many people believe that every habit was part of the tradition of a religious community and that those who abandoned it abandoned tradition. My point is that some communities abandoned it, because it was not part of their tradition. It was added on for one reason or another, as was the case with the Sisters of Charity. So when Vatican II and Vita Consacrata tell religious to go back to the vision and directives of their founders, we find that some communities that adopted a habit, did so contrary to the wishes of the founder. It was not done as an act of disobedience. It was for many reasons, some of them very pious. It would be unfair to expect those communities who are trying to get closer to their founders to pick up a habit that their founders never intended, but was added later for whatever reason. Those communities who are trying to do what their founders intended are actually just as faithful as those that wear a traditional or modified habit.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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MarinerFan
Guest
"The Dominican nuns and the Dominican sisters always wore a black veil over the coif. The difference was that the nuns never wore a white underveil. This was added by the sisters to compensate for the change in the coif. "
I’m sorry to be dense, but is there a difference between nuns and sisters? I always thought it was two ways of referring to the same thing.
I’m sorry to be dense, but is there a difference between nuns and sisters? I always thought it was two ways of referring to the same thing.
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JReducation
Guest
Nuns belong to religious orders. They make solemn vows just like friars, monks and Jesuits. They are cloistered. Their way of life is considered to be superior to that of a sister.
A sister belongs to a religious congregation, society of apostolic life, association of the faithful or secular institute. They make simple vows just like Redemptorists, Passionists, Marists, etc. They are active in the community. Mother Teresa is an example of a sister. St. Therese is an example of a nun.
Both are women religious. The proper form of addressing a woman religious is Sister. Not all sisters are nuns.
St. Dominic founded a community of nuns before he founded the friars. Long after he was dead, the Dominican Friars founded communities of sisters. There are Dominican Nuns and Dominican Sisters. You will rarely, if ever, see a Dominican nun. The ones that you see in schools, parishes and hospitals are Dominican Sisters. Sometimes they are referred to as Sisters of St. Dominic.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Aramis
Guest
It should be noted that many dominican sisters don’t always wear the black veil. Some congregations wear it with the cappa, but not for routine work. Almost as if it’s a dress habit.
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JReducation
Guest
The cappa or mantle as it’s also called, is not meant to be worn for work. It’s very awkward, because it has yards and yards of fabric.
The difference between Dominicans and Carmelites on one side and the rest of us on the other side, is that the cappa or mantle is part of their habit. For the rest of us, it’s just a coat that can be replaced by any other coat.
Once upon a time, there were no coats with sleeves. Everyone wore the capes. Dominicans and Carmelites have preserved it as part of their habit. For everyon else, it’s optional. A Franciscan can wear a short mantle, usually to the wrists or a jacket over the habit. The mantle is not part of the habit. It’s purpose it to keep you warm. The same is true of other communities. I can’t think of anyone else who has a mantle as part of the habit. I’m not even sure why the Dominicans and Carmelites made it part of their habit. Maybe someone else knows the story.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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MarinerFan
Guest
Thank you very much for your explanation, Br. JR! I had no idea they are so distinct. What is the purpose of being cloistered? To spend more time in prayer?
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
Quite honestly, I believe the Dominicans kept the cape because they knew that it looked cool and it would draw in vocations.The cappa or mantle as it’s also called, is not meant to be worn for work. It’s very awkward, because it has yards and yards of fabric.
The difference between Dominicans and Carmelites on one side and the rest of us on the other side, is that the cappa or mantle is part of their habit. For the rest of us, it’s just a coat that can be replaced by any other coat.
Once upon a time, there were no coats with sleeves. Everyone wore the capes. Dominicans and Carmelites have preserved it as part of their habit. For everyon else, it’s optional. A Franciscan can wear a short mantle, usually to the wrists or a jacket over the habit. The mantle is not part of the habit. It’s purpose it to keep you warm. The same is true of other communities. I can’t think of anyone else who has a mantle as part of the habit. I’m not even sure why the Dominicans and Carmelites made it part of their habit. Maybe someone else knows the story.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
However, as another poster said, if it’s in the summertime or if it’s particularly hot one day, they will take it off. For instance, in Father Vincent Serpa’s picture he has one on, but if you watch this link he doesn’t have one on.
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JReducation
Guest
A cloistered man or woman is one who has been granted a very special favor by God, which he grants to very few souls. He calls them to live in total intimacy with him alone. Their life is spent in prayer, work and a few community activities to maintain the mental health. But they are really victims on the patten along with Christ. God asks for their entire existence, 24/7, without any other love or activity between him and them. In reality, he asks them to live in heaven, before they get there. The live in the intimacy that only the angels and saints in heaven know, but they anticipate it here on earth.
This call is given only to a few souls, that is why there are so few nuns and monks. The Church recognizes their vows as solemn, meaning that they are not just vows to live chastity, poverty and obedience, as we regular religious do. But they are to live these vows alone with God as their only source of consolation, inspiration and support.
The rest of us religious have the benefit of a fraternal life in community, an interactive life with the lay faithful who can inspire us, and an apostolic life of service that motivates us to keep going. These enclosed religious do not have any of this. It’s them and God. It’s an incredible gift.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
The purpose? Different vocations. Some are called to be out into the world like the Franciscans, taking care of the poor, running hospitals, doing missionary work, etc, while others are called to a contemplative life: to enter a community’s property and never leave it unless there is a grave reason, to pray, to meditate, to live their life in solitude and and contemplation, getting rid of the noise of the world. God calls many men (Monks) and women (Nuns) to both of these lives, and they’re always happy when they do. People think it’s a horrible fate, but God won’t call you to something that you won’t enjoy. For instance, most Friars and Sisters would run off in the night if they had to live a cloistered life, and most Monks and Nuns would club people to death for being too noisy and bothering them. They both enjoy their lives, and they wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. This is their vocation, their pathway to Heaven. Who are they to complain when not only will it get them to Heaven, but they also enjoy it so much?
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JReducation
Guest
LOLQuite honestly, I believe the Dominicans kept the cape because they knew that it looked cool and it would draw in vocations.
However, as another poster said, if it’s in the summertime or if it’s particularly hot one day, they will take it off. For instance, in Father Vincent Serpa’s picture he has one on, but if you watch this link he doesn’t have one on.
I doubt very much that the cape has drawn in vocations. The Dominicans rank number four among the large religious communities. The first three don’t have the capes. There must have been another good reason.
But I give you 5 points for a good try.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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