Interesting Perspectives on Voting Pro-Choice

[IvanKaramozov]

I’m a happy liberal. I’m also a devout pro-lifer.

I’ve been rooting for candidates who stand up for the prolife issue . Anyhoo, I’ve been encouraging my friends to consider this when voting in the mock election this coming Monday at school.

Well, while discussing this issue in our Religious Education class, one of our teachers said something that really made me think about it in a different light. She told us that she had a friend that underwent an abortion because her financial situation was so bad that she felt it was a mercy-act: She didn’t think she could give her child everything it needed. So our teacher told us that she has made sure since then that the candidate that she votes for gives hope to people like her friend, that can help financially those in desperate need in order to prevent more abortions springing from such a scenario. In other words, she might vote for a pro-choice candidate in order to save a child’s life.

Likewise, a very strong and opionated pro-life friend of mine is rooting for a pro-choice candidate in the race. When I asked about why she supported a pro-choice candidate, she answered: “Right now, in this country, people already have the choice. They probably will for a while. I want good policies in the meantime. I think our job should be giving hope to those that have the choice to make–because even were it illegal, without doing that, we’d’ve made little real difference.”

These thoughts really caught me off-guard. Both are working toward the preservation of human life. Their resolutions seem good and perfectly justifiable. After all, a pro-life president will always be subject to the rulings of Congress. Their campaigns for life, and their unique ways of going about it: What are your thoughts on this?

Firstly, you really arn’t supposed to even mention a canidates name here, so you may want to edit your OP

Second, don’t listin to the people who have been Jerkish, you asked an honest question and it deserves an honest answer, not rude and condescending retoric.

I think your argument is a good one, abortion is an intrinsically evil act, however the chances of haveing it abolished by a Supream Court are slim, the pro-choice croud has stari decisis and a good deal of legal thought going for them. Statistics show a strong corelation between abortion and poverty, so ending or reducing poverty IS a decent proposal to reduce abortion.

Now, what your teachers friend did was wrong, there really are no two ways around that.

Another poster provided this link, I would suggust you read it

vatican.va/roman_curia//congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html

 

[dmelosi]

Firstly, you really arn’t supposed to even mention a canidates name here, so you may want to edit your OP

Second, don’t listin to the people who have been Jerkish, you asked an honest question and it deserves an honest answer, not rude and condescending retoric.

I think your argument is a good one, abortion is an intrinsically evil act, however the chances of haveing it abolished by a Supream Court are slim, the pro-choice croud has stari decisis and a good deal of legal thought going for them. Statistics show a strong corelation between abortion and poverty, so ending or reducing poverty IS a decent proposal to reduce abortion.

Now, what your teachers friend did was wrong, there really are no two ways around that.

Another poster provided this link, I would suggust you read it

vatican.va/roman_curia//c…litica_en.html

Please point out jerkish.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Please point out jerkish.

I found the first response quite condescending and rude.

 

[dmelosi]

Firstly, you really arn’t supposed to even mention a canidates name here, so you may want to edit your OP

Second, don’t listin to the people who have been Jerkish, you asked an honest question and it deserves an honest answer, not rude and condescending retoric.

I think your argument is a good one, abortion is an intrinsically evil act, however the chances of haveing it abolished by a Supream Court are slim, the pro-choice croud has stari decisis and a good deal of legal thought going for them. Statistics show a strong corelation between abortion and poverty, so ending or reducing poverty IS a decent proposal to reduce abortion.

Now, what your teachers friend did was wrong, there really are no two ways around that.

Another poster provided this link, I would suggust you read it

vatican.va/roman_curia//c…litica_en.html

Mother’s Health (3%)
Baby has possible health problem (3%)
Rape or Incest (1%)
Couldn’t Afford Baby (21%)
Not ready for the Responsibility (21%)
Concerned how child would change lives (16%)
A relationship problem (12%)
Not mature enough (11%)
Had all the children they wanted (8%)
Other (4%)

abortioninfo.net/facts/affect1.shtml

21% can’t afford…

 

[iamrefreshed]

Well, while discussing this issue in our Religious Education class, one of our teachers said something that really made me think about it in a different light.

This disturbs me most about your post.

Was this a catholic religion teacher? Was it a CCD class? What grade?

If it was at your parish you should notify someone. Maybe your parents?

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Mother’s Health (3%)
Baby has possible health problem (3%)
Rape or Incest (1%)
Couldn’t Afford Baby (21%)
Not ready for the Responsibility (21%)
Concerned how child would change lives (16%)
A relationship problem (12%)
Not mature enough (11%)
Had all the children they wanted (8%)
Other (4%)

abortioninfo.net/facts/affect1.shtml

21% can’t afford…

yes, and?

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Age:
<15yrs(3%)
15-19(42%)
20-24 (33%)
25-29 (14%)

30 (8%)
Completed Education:
<12yrs(6%)
**High School(39%)
13-14 years (26%)**Bachelors (19%)
Masters (4%)
PHD (1%)

Number of Children
0 (73%)
1 (14%)
2 (9%)
3 (4%)

3 (1%)
Race
African-American 35%
White 33%
Hispanic 15%
Other 17%
(CDC 1995)

African Americans make up 14% of the general population, they are dispraportionally represented in poverty, the prison system, and abortion, education level isalso a strong factor(or so it seems), as is age.

I don’t see how you can claim that poverty isin’t a major factor.

 

[dmelosi]

You quoted

Statistics show a strong corelation between abortion and poverty, so ending or reducing poverty IS a decent proposal to reduce abortion. /quote]

You mention only 1 reason and pick the one that matches your politics. I suggest you start a thread about democrats and republicans and what causes the poverty level to stay where it is.

For you to pick poverty as a strong corelation between abortion and poverty and not mention the others, shows how clouded and engrained in the democratic party you are.

 

[dmelosi]

Age:
<15yrs(3%)
15-19(42%)
20-24 (33%)
25-29 (14%)

30 (8%)
Completed Education:
<12yrs(6%)
High School(39%)
**13-14 years (26%)**Bachelors (19%)
Masters (4%)
PHD (1%)

The statistic of 21% says those that claim they cannot afford a baby, doesnt mean they are all in poverty.

Not sure why you are twisting the fact, once you brought it up.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

The statistic of 21% says those that claim they cannot afford a baby, doesnt mean they are all in poverty.

Not sure why you are twisting the fact, once you brought it up.

I never said all abortions are the cause of poverty, I said that there is a strong corelation, 21% being directly caused by poverty, combined with the factors of young age, and low education level, and African Americans being so disproportionally represented bear this out.

No, ending poverty will not end abortion, however I think reducing poverty will ceretianly reduce abortion, and it is something we are called to do anyway.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

You mention only 1 reason and pick the one that matches your politics.

What are my politics, and who will I be voteing for?

I suggest you start a thread about democrats and republicans and what causes the poverty level to stay where it is.

Alright

For you to pick poverty as a strong corelation between abortion and poverty and not mention the others

Mother’s Health (3%)
Baby has possible health problem (3%)
Rape or Incest (1%)
Couldn’t Afford Baby (21%)
Not ready for the Responsibility (21%)
Concerned how child would change lives (16%)
A relationship problem (12%)
Not mature enough (11%)
Had all the children they wanted (8%)
Other (4%)

So far as I can tell, all the one’s I bolded are outside the scope of government influence

Of the three remaining one is poverty, and the other two are complex, however I would be inclined to think that education and future prospects are factors, though I could well be wrong.

shows how clouded and engrained in the democratic party you are.

I’m not a democrat, nor would I likely vote for a democrat, even if they paid lip service to abortion like republicans

 

[dmelosi]

I never said all abortions are the cause of poverty, I said that there is a strong corelation, 21% being directly caused by poverty, combined with the factors of young age, and low education level, and African Americans being so disproportionally represented bear this out.

No, ending poverty will not end abortion, neither did electing George W Bush, a Republican Senate and House, and tow Bench appointments, however I think reducing poverty will ceretianly reduce abortion, and it is something we are called to do anyway.

I don’t think anyone thought that George Bush would end abortion, but he certainly did what he said he would by getting 2 pro life judges elected despite the enormous opposition by the democrats, only because of the judges being pro life. You don’t even give credit for that?

And your comment about about 21% being directly caused by poverty shows you extreme bias again, the term was that they said they could not afford it, not poverty, you twist again.

Change your argument, the argument that democrats are doing more to stop abortion is the silliest argument I have ever seen made.

 

[gmarie21]

I never said all abortions are the cause of poverty, I said that there is a strong corelation, 21% being directly caused by poverty, combined with the factors of young age, and low education level, and African Americans being so disproportionally represented bear this out.

No, ending poverty will not end abortion, however I think reducing poverty will ceretianly reduce abortion, and it is something we are called to do anyway.

100% of the women seeking abortions at the local clinic pull up in suvs or cars that cost more than mine. Most also show up in designer coats, pants, shoes, etc. Yet, I’m a single mother and an adoptee who’s biological mother was 17 and chose life and a chance for a quality life over any of the reasons women give to have abortions. By the way, I don’t ask the state for a penny (even though I make an amount that I could) and make sacrifices in other areas inorder to have PPO insteady of the junky state health insurance which my doctors won’t accept.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

I don’t think anyone thought that George Bush would end abortion

Then why should a Catholic have voted for him?

They may have opposed it, however they were a minority party, I assume Roberts and Allito are good judges.

And your comment about about 21% being directly caused by poverty shows you extreme bias again, the term was that they said they could not afford it, not poverty, you twist again.

If they coulden’t afford it, I think that is somehow linked to insufficient means

Change your argument, the argument that democrats are doing more to stop abortion is the silliest argument I have ever seen made.

I never made that argument, I said that ending poverty was a good method of reducing abortions.

[/QUOTE]

 

[IvanKaramozov]

100% of the women seeking abortions at the local clinic pull up in suvs or cars that cost more than mine. Most also show up in designer coats, pants, shoes, etc. Yet, I’m a single mother and an adoptee who’s biological mother was 17 and chose life and a chance for a quality life over any of the reasons women give to have abortions. By the way, I don’t ask the state for a penny (even though I make an amount that I could) and make sacrifices in other areas inorder to have PPO insteady of the junky state health insurance which my doctors won’t accept.

then I think both you and your mother are impressive

 

[IvanKaramozov]

• Poverty. Women with incomes below 200% of poverty made up 30% of all women of reproductive age, but accounted for 57% of all women having abortions in 2000: Twenty-seven percent of abortions were obtained by women living below the poverty line, and another 31% by women with incomes of 100-199% of poverty. The concentration of economically disadvantaged women among those having abortions was greater in 2000 than in 1994, when 50% of women obtaining abortions had incomes of less than 200% of poverty.

guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html

 

[gmarie21]

then I think both you and your mother are impressive

There’s nothing impressive about making sacrifices, it’s called love. We are all called to sacrifice it’s just that some stopped teaching that by example and some stopped paying attention to the value in sacrificing.

 

[gmarie21]

• Poverty. Women with incomes below 200% of poverty made up 30% of all women of reproductive age, but accounted for 57% of all women having abortions in 2000: Twenty-seven percent of abortions were obtained by women living below the poverty line, and another 31% by women with incomes of 100-199% of poverty. The concentration of economically disadvantaged women among those having abortions was greater in 2000 than in 1994, when 50% of women obtaining abortions had incomes of less than 200% of poverty.

guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html

Middle and High School students don’t always have jobs, therefore having an income of $0. That skews the statistics dramatically.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Middle and High School students don’t always have jobs, therefore having an income of $0. That skews the statistics dramatically.

They said individuals living below the poverty line, not individuals who personally don’t have money, Bill Gates’ daughters are not considered below the poverty line.

 

[gmarie21]

They said individuals living below the poverty line, not individuals who personally don’t have money, Bill Gates’ daughters are not considered below the poverty line.

You don’t think that abortionists mark teens as “below poverty line” when reporting their statistics?