Interfaith: a new dialogue between Muslims and Catholic

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*Here is a map which shows countries/continents which are anti-Christian and where Christians cannot practice their Faith (red) and countries where persecution of Christians is constant and ongoing (yellow).

lefigaro.fr/assets/images/atlaspersecution.jpg*

Has anyone got a map which which shows the persecution of Muslims because of their
Faith?
 
Hi, Nephets,

Welcome to CAF. Hopefully you will overcome your disgust through genuine dialogue. Letting one’s emotions control a conversation or set the tone for a discussion is a guaranteed way to kill honest exchange. Now, I would recommend you look at Cinette’s comments - they really do provide some light to this topic…😃

Now, let’s see what we have here…
I only read the first few pages of this topic, and became instantly disgusted enough to post here.

First of all, I am appalled my the mistreatment we are all giving each other here, we are all equals in the eyes of God, and we are to treat each other as such.
No matter your belief, you should be respectful, and just because we Catholics think we are correct, does not give us the right to bash the Islamic faith and their followers.

I can see your point and where this is problematic.

I will not single out anyone, but has anyone thought for a single instance, that the Islamic faith is the only one to have extremist groups? What about the Salem Witch trials in Protestant New England, the Inquisition in Christian Europe, or the Catholic Crusades?

Extreemism is a real problem. But, providing inadequate or poor examples certainly does not help present your position. For example, the Salem Witch Trials lasted about 15 months beginning in 1692, with about 30 people being brought to trial on the charge of witchcraft. While there may be some real questions about the validity of the charges, the use of the Bible and how well the accused were represented at the trial and how well the judges conducted themselves - it should be noted the towns people of Salem did not strap explosives to themselves in an effort of killing the accused and themselves so that the former would go to hell and the latter would go to paradise.

For the accused who were convicted, only they were punished - not their family, friends, neighbors and any passers by who would have been murdered by the explosive device.

So, while there were extreems in the Salem events - even eventually judged by the authorities of the time! There is no comparison in this series of events and someone taking it upon themselves to simply murder as many others as possible while perverting one’s own religion to call suicide martyrdom.

I am guessing you are referencing the Spanish Inquisition as opposed to the Roman Inquisition. In all cases, however, the distinctions I made with the Salem Witch Trials applies here - just in a different time period and context. People were accused, tried and judged accordingly. Were there abuses? Yes. But, there is no evidence of individuals seeking to murder the accused while killing themselves. This, in my opinion is the crucial distinction between the events you have identified and the way Islam is being evaluated.

Denmark recently arrested several individuals who had taken upon themselves the task of killing innocent non-combatants in a newspaper office that had years ago published cartoons about Mohammad. Many lives were saved by the proper actions of the police - and this should not go unrecognized. The radical Islamist view is that Mohammad was somehow disgraced in these cartoons - and the penalty is death! Can you imagine Pope Benedict XVI coming out on the balcony of St. Peter’s and declaring those who deface pictures of Christ, Mary and the Sanits should be killed by Catholics strapping on bombs and blowing up whoever is in the area?

Ask yourself why it is hard to imagine this of the Pope? But, is it so hard to imagine a similar call for mass murder from someone quoting the Qran?

Ultimately, there must be common elements for any dialogue to begin and then to progress. If there is no basic respect for the lives of innocents, how does one try to speak of peace and love?

.

All of these actions were carried out in the name of God, and none of these actions were holy or righteous, you treat suicide-bombers and terrorists as if they represent the entire faith that is Islam, and you are wrong.

I think such a generalization has an element of validity because those followers of Islam who claim to be peaceful - NEVER condemn the actions of their suicidal fellow believers who think nothing of murdering as many as possible. If the terrorists are such a minority and unrepresentative, why does Islam grant them such liberty to kill others and intimidate those who would condemn such senseless carnage?

.

There are many, perfectly peaceful Muslims who do not hate America or Christianity.

Their silence is deafening.

God bless.
 
I don’t think this was mentioned earlier, but on Jan. 4th a Pakistani governor of Punjab was assassinated by one of his own bodyguards because he didn’t like the opinion of the politician to ease penalties for the anti-blasphemy law. The bodyguard was praised and a garland of flowers put around his neck. Over 500 imams and scholars signed in agreement with the bodyguard’s action, and they are considered the moderate Islamists. They also refused to offer prayers for the funeral.

usatoday.com/news/world/2011-01-04-pakistani-governor-killed_N.htm

allvoices.com/contributed-news/7801387-imams-refused-to-offer-funeral-prayers-of-punjab-governor-salman-taseer/stories

Another article mentions that thousands came to pray for the slain governor.

Peace Mumbai condemns Salman Taseer killing
NewKerala | 2 days ago
India-Pakistan friendship activists here Saturday strongly condemned the assassination of Salman Taseer, governor of Pakistan’s Punjab Province. In a statement, Peace Mumbai said: "Taseer was shot dead by his security guard for taking a principled…
Salman Taseer killer’s case should be decided as per Shariah law: JuD
Daily News & Analysis | 3 days ago
Pakistan-based terror outfit JuD has asked the country’s courts to decide the case of Punjab governor Salmaan Taseer’s assassin in line with the ‘Shariah’ or Islamic law and “sentiments of Muslims”.
 
I only read the first few pages of this topic, and became instantly disgusted enough to post here.
First, I respect your feelings that you felt “disgusted” which allowed you to “post here”.😃 Welcome to CAF!
First of all, I am appalled my the mistreatment we are all giving each other here, we are all equals in the eyes of God, and we are to treat each other as such.
No matter your belief, you should be respectful, and just because we Catholics think we are correct, does not give us the right to bash the Islamic faith and their followers.
Interfaith-dialogue calls for honesty and sometimes what one says will be politically incorrect. There are inherent qualities of Islam that goes against the human dignity.
I will not single out anyone, but has anyone thought for a single instance, that the Islamic faith is the only one to have extremist groups?
…]
you treat suicide-bombers and terrorists as if they represent the entire faith that is Islam, and you are wrong.
I think those Muslim groups who you consider “extremist” such as suicide bombers and terrorists are* good, faithful Muslims *who are following the exact teachings of the Koran and Hadith to kill infidels (non-Muslims).

The Koran has conflicting passages that cancel each other out. One passage says to be peaceful with non-Muslims, another to kill non-Muslims. Therefore, one cannot say “extremists” are not being a true Muslim as they are following the Koran and Hadith. A “peaceful” Muslim, however, can point to terrorists and say: “You’re reading of the Koran is not like how I read it.”
There are many, perfectly peaceful Muslims who do not hate America or Christianity.
Those peaceful Muslims who do not hate America or Christianity need to be more vocal in denouncing terrorism and the persecution of Christians especially in the Middle East (Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia).
The world needs to be unified under one GLOBAL religion, that is true, God resides inside each and every one of us, none of us know the whole answer, but as a whole, as a unified World, we can find it.
Your statement of a need for a “GLOBAL religion” kind of scares me – it sounds much like those suicide bombers and terrorists you decried earlier who advocated Islam to be a world religion through violence.
 
The Inquisition and Crusades was not extremist at all. I suggest you get some information on the subject.
Well, there was a bit of extremism floating about there wasn’t there? I mean Tomás de Torquemada would certainly go on my lists of extremists through history, even if he was utterly convinced what he was doing was right! It’s all about holding faith and reason in balance is it not?

The Crusades, well I agree with you there & I think there’s a load of misinformation going around about that. Certainly the early Crusades were very noble and motivated from Christian duty to protect and care for those travelling to the holy land, and then as a response to Muslim aggression.
I do believe that there are many good Muslims - I have met some. However, the Qur’an leaves one aghast! It looks more like a manual for terrorism.
👍
It’s extraordinary the claims made for it! Like none of them have ever read it with an open heart!
I find that mostly Muslims are not vocal enough against the terrible sufferings which radical Muslims inflict on Christians - all Christians.
👍 I agree totally with this and would have less of an issue with Islam if there were more vocal condemnation from the Muslim community for atrocity, but quite simply, there isn’t, rather we get responses like this:

abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=219562
 
Well, there was a bit of extremism floating about there wasn’t there? I mean Tomás de Torquemada would certainly go on my lists of extremists through history, even if he was utterly convinced what he was doing was right! It’s all about holding faith and reason in balance is it not?

The Crusades, well I agree with you there & I think there’s a load of misinformation going around about that. Certainly the early Crusades were very noble and motivated from Christian duty to protect and care for those travelling to the holy land, and then as a response to Muslim aggression.

👍
It’s extraordinary the claims made for it! Like none of them have ever read it with an open heart!

*I watched the video and feel that this Imam is devoid of all logic! Inconceivable!

Cinette:)*

👍 I agree totally with this and would have less of an issue with Islam if there were more vocal condemnation from the Muslim community for atrocity, but quite simply, there isn’t, rather we get responses like this:

abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=219562
 
*I have been away on holiday and notice that men0wjv has been banned. Does anybody know why exactly?

Cinette:)*
 
Here is a list of why members are suspended are banned: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=78447

It can be assumed, therefore, that men0jwv broke one or more of those rules. Any speculation outside of that isn’t really necessary. It has been written here (though I haven’t found confirmation of it myself) that public speculation about such matters is itself not allowed. Out of respect for the mods, I would rather not head down that road myself.
 
Hi, Dzheremi,

That sounds prudent. 🙂

God bless
Here is a list of why members are suspended are banned: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=78447

It can be assumed, therefore, that men0jwv broke one or more of those rules. Any speculation outside of that isn’t really necessary. It has been written here (though I haven’t found confirmation of it myself) that public speculation about such matters is itself not allowed. Out of respect for the mods, I would rather not head down that road myself.
 
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