vames. You said:
But I don’t believe there were/are intergenerational sin effects as in “earthly punishments inflicted by God on sons for the sins of their fathers”
“Allowed by God” instead of “inflicted by God” may be a better phrase to use if you want to capture the meaning of what you are opposing.
Were the punishments that were
allowed upon the Egyptian first born children for the sins of the paganism that was passed down to and practiced by Pharaoh (pagan practices which Pharaoh received from his ancestors) just all mere natural consequences vames?
I am sure you are a fine Catholic vames.
You said:
But I don’t believe there were/are intergenerational sin effects as in “earthly punishments inflicted by God on sons for the sins of their fathers”
I am not trying to get you to affirm the concept of intergenerational sin effects vames. But reading the Scriptures raises fair questions and issues. I am not attempting to assert the concept of intergenerational sin here.
My point was and is, Ezekiel 18 and John 9:1-3 does not contradict the concept of intergenerational sin effects and the questions and issues raised by people about this topic are good questions and deserve a fair discussion.
There are very good Catholics out there that can readily observe certain unusual sins manifest in a generational pattern (you have already admitted as such). Where you and I would partially disagree is “why”.
You said some people give demons more than they are due. I agree with that too. Some people see demons behind every proverbial rock. But some other people are not on guard enough concerning preternatural aspects either vames.
But neither of these points go to the heart of the question of “does intergenerational effects of sin even exist?”
Your argument about the natural realm and bad example and such are all true concerning what you affirm. I am not going to deny any of that.
And also people know sins of other people have had harmful effects on them (even if when being victimized, those same suffering victims do not commit sin as a result, they still can suffer as a result of other people’s sin).
A woman who has been raped (no sin) has effects from the sin of somebody else (the perpetrator). You and I both know that.
So the question is, what factored into this (why did this guy do that, and what can this woman do to mitigate the hurtful effects of this guy’s sin)?
The same question can be raised regarding intergenerational issues.
These people wonder if they could see with the “eyes” of the Heavenly Angels, is there any preternatural aspects to some suffering (since we can’t peer into that realm, we are going to be forced with conjecture unless the Church gives more definitive statements–at least that I am aware of).
If a certain person
chooses to have a dubious “spiritual posse” hanging around them all the time, can it effect anyone else in the house?
Can this dubious spiritual posse that they in some cases welcome, effect their kids?
I am NOT SAYING that it is the sin of the kid if his parent is ouija boarding OK?
Let’s not try to falsely say I am asserting that.
But ask yourself if mom and dad are conjuring, do you think it MIGHT have negative and hurtful effects upon the kids (of course from bad example but is that ALL? Do you think the demons that reside “around the household” are going to say to themselves “leave that innocent kid alone”?
Why would God allow this? It is a mystery. I don’t know. But part of the reason is because God can and will bring a greater good out of it just like He does with the
curse of death (see CCC 1009)
So if mom and dad are conjuring, do you think the spiritual climate just MIGHT have negative and hurtful effects upon the kids?
If this is “yes” how far (generationally) can it go? Can it effect others?
MATTHEW 12:43-45 43 “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest, but he finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will
return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and brings with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and
dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.
So shall it be also with this evil generation.”
Is there anything I can do to protect myself or others from the effects of this guy who willingly keeps bad spiritual company?
The people asking on this thread want to know if there is a spiritual preternatural element aspect to any of it.
You insist insist “no.” You would say it is all natural characteristics (nature, bad examples, etc.) and never associated with any preternatural aspects. Fair enough vames. You are entitled to your opinions.
If there is a preternatural element, they want to know what they can do in the power of the Sacraments (if they are Catholic) to mitigate some of these effects.
Or perhaps they see a non-Catholic friend or relative in this situation and want to help alleviate some of the suffering they are watching their friends undergo. They can’t tell their non-Catholic relative who they care for to, “just go to Confession”.
These are good people vames. They have real questions and want to help alleviate suffering.
And even with purely NATURAL issues vames, things like prayer helps.
We don’t say to a loved one with cancer: “Oh no. No praying the Rosary (or whatever). You got Baptism, the Eucharist and Confession!”
You and I would agree with this vames.
The questions the “askers” here raise are issues that must be appropriately addressed.
Using pejoratives like “superstition” when caricaturizing them is not helpful.
Mischaracterizing what they say is even less helpful.
