Interpretting the Bible

[mrs_abbott]

The Catholic Churches teaches that only the leaders of the Church should interpret the Bible and that’s the interpretation that the members of the Church should believe, am I right?
What makes them qualified to interpret the Bible versus someone else who might honestly be led by the Holy Spirit?
This is not an attack on the Church! I’m seriously asking so that I can know.
Also, how would anyone know if someone was led by the Holy Spirit? Does it boil down to trust or faith?

 

[Della]

The Catholic Churches teaches that only the leaders of the Church should interpret the Bible and that’s the interpretation that the members of the Church should believe, am I right?

Not quite. What the Catholic Church teaches is that only the Magisterium of the Church (all the bishops in union with the pope) can determine what the Scriptures say with regard to doctrine and dogma. Anyone may read the Bible and interpret it for devotional. educational, and other reasons that do not contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church.

What makes them qualified to interpret the Bible versus someone else who might honestly be led by the Holy Spirit?

Because Christ gave the Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church as described above) the promise that the Holy Spirit would guide his Church into all truth. He also commanded the Apostles to go into the whole world, making disciples of all people. Jesus did not give that charism to all and sundry but only to the Apostles and their successors.

Also, how would anyone know if someone was led by the Holy Spirit? Does it boil down to trust or faith?

The criteria for knowing that one is being led by the Holy Spirit is: 1) that it does not lead one to doubt/disobey Christ’s Church (the Catholic Church), 2) it does not lead one into sin but rather deepens one’s humility along with the other virtues.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Not quite. What the Catholic Church teaches is that only the Magisterium of the Church (all the bishops in union with the pope) can determine what the Scriptures say with regard to doctrine and dogma. Anyone may read the Bible and interpret it for devotional. educational, and other reasons that do not contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So, as Catholics, we are free to interpret it for personal gain, as long as it coincides with what the CC teaches? What if one were to stumble upon something that doesn’t contradict but also not necessarily what the church teaches?

Della:

Because Christ gave the Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church as described above) the promise that the Holy Spirit would guide his Church into all truth. He also commanded the Apostles to go into the whole world, making disciples of all people. Jesus did not give that charism to all and sundry but only to the Apostles and their successors.

But when Jesus commanded the apostles to go throughout the world making disciples of all nations, couldn’t that include also giving us the Bible and all it teaches? Meaning, after telling us about Christ and how to live, didn’t they intrust us, as individuals, to do the same to others? I guess I’m trying to say that I don’t see the harm in interpretting the Bible if one is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, even if you’re not a member of the Magisterium?

Della:

The criteria for knowing that one is being led by the Holy Spirit is: 1) that it does not lead one to doubt/disobey Christ’s Church (the Catholic Church), 2) it does not lead one into sin but rather deepens one’s humility along with the other virtues.

If you don’t mind me asking, where can this criteria be found?

 

[runandsew]

I think I heard Jimmy Akins say in the Bible Answer man Debate that there were only about 8 things in the Bible that the Church has infallibly interpreted, that we can not go against, the rest is open to our interpretation.
If our interpretation goes against Church teaching, then we must summit the churches teaching on whatever that might be.
I don’t know exactly what those 8 things are; I might email him to clarify it.
I also heard that one of the great church fathers, St. Augustine I think, had said that if his interpretation goes against church teachings, that either it is a bad translation of the bible, or he has interpreted the passage wrong.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I think I heard Jimmy Akins say in the Bible Answer man Debate that there were only about 8 things in the Bible that the Church has infallibly interpreted, that we can not go against, the rest is open to our interpretation.
If our interpretation goes against Church teaching, then we must summit the churches teaching on whatever that might be.
I don’t know exactly what those 8 things are; I might email him to clarify it.
I also heard that one of the great church fathers, St. Augustine I think, had said that if his interpretation goes against church teachings, that either it is a bad translation of the bible, or he has interpreted the passage wrong.

If you could find out what those 8 things were, that would be excellent!!!

 

[Della]

So, as Catholics, we are free to interpret it for personal gain, as long as it coincides with what the CC teaches? What if one were to stumble upon something that doesn’t contradict but also not necessarily what the church teaches?

Nothing in the Bible contradicts Church teaching. This is a problem of misinterpretation or not having the whole of Sacred Tradition (out of which the Bible came) to draw upon.

But when Jesus commanded the apostles to go throughout the world making disciples of all nations, couldn’t that include also giving us the Bible and all it teaches? Meaning, after telling us about Christ and how to live, didn’t they intrust us, as individuals, to do the same to others? I guess I’m trying to say that I don’t see the harm in interpretting the Bible if one is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, even if you’re not a member of the Magisterium?

The responsibility for bringing the world to Christ was entrusted to the Apsotles directly by Christ. We laity help our bishops and priests by our witness in the world and by helping others come to the faith, as well. But, we laity do not have the charism of deciding matters of faith and morals–that was given to the solely to the Apostles and their successors.

The Bible was compiled out of many writings from the 1st century. It was put together mainly for liturgical purposes not for deciding matters of doctrine/dogma.

The Bible is the witness of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles it is not an instruction book that gives clear directions for deciding matters of faith and morals–it’s writings weren’t written for that purpose.

Each of the books was written for different people and for different purposes, and yet, since they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, they speak to us today.

Still, that does not give anyone at all the license to interpret it anyway it strikes them. The fact that there are many Protestant churches all claiming to have the right interpretation who all believe in the Bible only proves this point quite well.

If you don’t mind me asking, where can this criteria be found?

It is the simple deduction from what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Della]

If you could find out what those 8 things were, that would be excellent!!!

Here you go! Infallibly-Interpreted Bible Verses.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Here you go! Infallibly-Interpreted Bible Verses.

Thank you, Della!
I was glancing over some of them and I’m not trying to insult the Church or anything but some of the doctrines they get from the Bible verses seem to be “stretching” it.
For example:
1 Corinthians 4:7
“Who confers distinction upon you? What do you possess that you have not received? But if you have received it, why are you boasting as if you did not receive it?”
That website says that “proves divine grace to be a sheer gift of God.”
I don’t even see where they get that from that bible verse?
Again, I’m not trying to insult the Church but it makes me wonder what the basis of their interpretations are???

 

[MrS]

I don’t even see where they get that from that bible verse?
Again, I’m not trying to insult the Church but it makes me wonder what the basis of their interpretations are???

Correct… that is why we are not left to our own interpretations (or lack thereof).

The basis “of their” interpretation is the promise of guidance of the Holy Spirit… something you and I do not have.

Private revelation is just that.

There is no new revelation after the death of John, the Beloved Disiple.

 

[mrs_abbott]

But, we laity do not have the charism of deciding matters of faith and morals–that was given to the solely to the Apostles and their successors.

Is this the teaching of the Magisterium?

Della:

The Bible was compiled out of many writings from the 1st century. It was put together mainly for liturgical purposes not for deciding matters of doctrine/dogma.

Then why is the Bible available for purchase and use if it’s mainly relevant to the liturgy?

Della:

The Bible is the witness of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles it is not an instruction book that gives clear directions for deciding matters of faith and morals–it’s writings weren’t written for that purpose.

But there are teachings and parables in there instructing us on how we should live and treat our neighbor? The ten commandments are in the Old Testament even.

Della:

Each of the books was written for different people and for different purposes, and yet, since they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, they speak to us today.

I agree completely with this!!!

Della:

Still, that does not give anyone at all the license to interpret it anyway it strikes them. The fact that there are many Protestant churches all claiming to have the right interpretation who all believe in the Bible only proves this point quite well.

But what if one is genuinely guided by the Holy Spirit?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thank you, Della!
I was glancing over some of them and I’m not trying to insult the Church or anything but some of the doctrines they get from the Bible verses seem to be “stretching” it.
For example:
1 Corinthians 4:7
“Who confers distinction upon you? What do you possess that you have not received? But if you have received it, why are you boasting as if you did not receive it?”
That website says that “proves divine grace to be a sheer gift of God.”
I don’t even see where they get that from that bible verse?
Again, I’m not trying to insult the Church but it makes me wonder what the basis of their interpretations are???

That verse is pretty much saying that everything we have or are able to do comes from God–so no man can boast that they had anything to do with whatever they have or can do. Interesting though–take a look at the verses right before this one.

 

[Verita]

The Catholic Churches teaches that only the leaders of the Church should interpret the Bible and that’s the interpretation that the members of the Church should believe, am I right?
What makes them qualified to interpret the Bible versus someone else who might honestly be led by the Holy Spirit?
This is not an attack on the Church! I’m seriously asking so that I can know.
Also, how would anyone know if someone was led by the Holy Spirit? Does it boil down to trust or faith?

The Church has the authority to teach the truth and interpret the Bible because that is the authority that Jesus gave to it. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide the Apsotles into all truth, not everyone. And Jesus appointed the Church as the arbiter in disputes. No one else has that authority because Jesus didn’t give it to anyone else. There can only be one interpreting authority, otherwise (as can be seen in protestantism) there is anarchy.

Furthermore, as has already been pointed out, revelation ended with the Apostles. That means that everything God was going to teach us has been taught. We may, through the Church, continue to grow in understanding of that truth, but the Church currently has all of the truth that has been revealed to us. That means there is no need for people to interpret things by themselves. The Holy Spirit isn’t going to be guiding them into anything new. All the Holy Spirit will do is help them understand the existing revelation better.

 

[starling]

What makes them experts today?

Unbelievably advanced study of theology, philosophy and other subjects that few people have and that the average forum apologist can only dream of, and that take into account what was actually meant in the context of the times, traditions, the languages the originals were written in and what the words meant in that culture, to what extent it was allegorical, etc. They also make every effort not to say things that will contradict something else. There are 2000 years of tradition behind this. You don’t easily just discount 2000 years. The Bible lends itself to all kinds of false interpretations if someone just reads it like you read a book or a newspaper.

If you want to interpret it yourself, there are many other nice denominations that will encourage you to do just that. Of course, they are gradually straying further and further away from the Truth, and in both directions, that is, some towards extreme fundamentalism and others towards extreme liberalism. That’s how you end up with new age and wicca-like ceremonies led by lesbian and gay “ministers”, men marrying men and women marrying women in so-called christian churches. self-appointed evangelists who preach praying to make lots of money on TV, and closed-minded fundamentalist who still deny what is obvious scientific knowledge and achievement.

The Catholic Church keeps us centered on what the Truth really is. We may deviate from it at times, but at least we know what we are deviating from, by how much, and we can always correct our personal navigation on the walk of life.

 

[mrs_abbott]

What makes them experts today?

Unbelievably advanced study of theology, philosophy and other subjects that few people have and that the average forum apologist can only dream of, and that take into account what was actually meant in the context of the times, traditions, the languages the originals were written in and what the words meant in that culture, to what extent it was allegorical, etc. They also make every effort not to say things that will contradict something else. There are 2000 years of tradition behind this. You don’t easily just discount 2000 years. The Bible lends itself to all kinds of false interpretations if someone just reads it like you read a book or a newspaper.

If you want to interpret it yourself, there are many other nice denominations that will encourage you to do just that. Of course, they are gradually straying further and further away from the Truth, and in both directions, that is, some towards extreme fundamentalism and others towards extreme liberalism. That’s how you end up with new age and wicca-like ceremonies led by lesbian and gay “ministers”, men marrying men and women marrying women in so-called christian churches. self-appointed evangelists who preach praying to make lots of money on TV, and closed-minded fundamentalist who still deny what is obvious scientific knowledge and achievement.

The Catholic Church keeps us centered on what the Truth really is. We may deviate from it at times, but at least we know what we are deviating from, by how much, and we can always correct our personal navigation on the walk of life.

But anyone can easily take the classes that the priests take in the seminary and/or just study on their own the same material. What couldn’t they be qualified if they are genuinely searching for the Truth?

 

[runandsew]

mrs_abbott; But when Jesus commanded the apostles to go throughout the world making disciples of all nations, couldn’t that include also giving us the Bible and all it teaches? Meaning, after telling us about Christ and how to live, didn’t they intrust us, as individuals, to do the same to others? I guess I’m trying to say that I don’t see the harm in interpretting the Bible if one is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, even if you’re not a member of the Magisterium?

Matthew Chapter 28:18-20

Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

Here Jesus is giving the church the power to teach. And guarantying that he will be guiding the church in this process to the end of time.

 

[runandsew]

The Catholic Churches teaches that only the leaders of the Church should interpret the Bible and that’s the interpretation that the members of the Church should believe, am I right?
What makes them qualified to interpret the Bible versus someone else who might honestly be led by the Holy Spirit?
This is not an attack on the Church! I’m seriously asking so that I can know.
Also, how would anyone know if someone was led by the Holy Spirit? Does it boil down to trust or faith?

By what test do you decide that it is really the Holy Spirit leading you. How do you know that you do not just think what you want to think, and then persuade yourself that it must be right because you think it., and that your opinion must be the voice of the Holy Spirit. Other people, jus as sincere, arrive at other conclusions. Why would it be wiser to accept your verdict rather than theirs? All kinds of strange religions have been given to the world by men who have declared with the utmost confidence that the Holy Spirit is responsible for their ideas. St. John warns us: “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into this world.” And he adds, “He that heareth not us, is not of God. By this we know the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.”

(from radio replies #515)

 

[Della]

mrs_abbott:

I was glancing over some of them and I’m not trying to insult the Church or anything but some of the doctrines they get from the Bible verses seem to be “stretching” it.
For example:
1 Corinthians 4:7
“Who confers distinction upon you? What do you possess that you have not received? But if you have received it, why are you boasting as if you did not receive it?”
That website says that “proves divine grace to be a sheer gift of God.”
I don’t even see where they get that from that bible verse?
Again, I’m not trying to insult the Church but it makes me wonder what the basis of their interpretations are???

The Church doesn’t cite this verse as proof of anything, but as a witness to what it has always taught.

There’s a big difference between the Bible as witness and the Bible as a proof-text. It is not a proof-text for anything and never was intended to be. It grew out of the Sacred Tradition of the Church, which is the teaching of Christ and the Apostles. It cannot stand on it’s own and tell us anything any more than an autobiography actually is the person, but is only wha the person says about himself. So, the Bible is what the Church says about itself and cannot be separated from the Church that formed it and gave it to us.

Originally Posted by Della
But, we laity do not have the charism of deciding matters of faith and morals–that was given to the solely to the Apostles and their successors.

Is this the teaching of the Magisterium?

Yes. It’s in the Catechism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della
The Bible was compiled out of many writings from the 1st century. It was put together mainly for liturgical purposes not for deciding matters of doctrine/dogma.

Then why is the Bible available for purchase and use if it’s mainly relevant to the liturgy?

You have to remember that when the Bible was compiled it had to be copied by hand, thus it was very expensive to own one. Also, many people were illiterate (as they still are in many countries around the world). People didn’t have the Bible to read for themselves. Besides this, the Bible is the Church’s book. It came out of the Church’s Sacred Tradition, as I described it above. The fact that there are many translations (some truly bad translations) that are available now days in no way means that anyone can pick it up and know what is true and what isn’t just by reading it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della
The Bible is the witness of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles it is not an instruction book that gives clear directions for deciding matters of faith and morals–it’s writings weren’t written for that purpose.

But there are teachings and parables in there instructing us on how we should live and treat our neighbor? The ten commandments are in the Old Testament even.

Of course, but that still doesn’t give you and me the charism of infallibility in reading it when it comes to doctrine and dogma, faith and morals. If that were the case there would be no disagreements amongst Protestants about anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della
Still, that does not give anyone at all the license to interpret it anyway it strikes them. The fact that there are many Protestant churches all claiming to have the right interpretation who all believe in the Bible only proves this point quite well.

But what if one is genuinely guided by the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit cannot contradict Christ’s Body any more than he can contradict Christ as Head of that Body. The Church is Christ’s body and it has the leadership Christ set up for it. Not everyone has the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals, doctrine and dogma because it was not given to all and sundry but only to the Apostles and their successors.

 

[mrs_abbott]

The Church doesn’t cite this verse as proof of anything, but as a witness to what it has always taught.

There’s a big difference between the Bible as witness and the Bible as a proof-text. It is not a proof-text for anything and never was intended to be.

Ok, that clarifies the CC’s stance on it now. I was under the impression the CC used it as a proof-text like the Protestants do.
I think I got it now. Thanks Della!

Della:

The Holy Spirit cannot contradict Christ’s Body any more than he can contradict Christ as Head of that Body. The Church is Christ’s body and it has the leadership Christ set up for it. Not everyone has the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals, doctrine and dogma because it was not given to all and sundry but only to the Apostles and their successors.

But, if someone was genuinely led by the Holy Spirit, shouldn’t they be in conjunction with what the CC says about the interpretation of the Bible?

 

[mrs_abbott]

By what test do you decide that it is really the Holy Spirit leading you. How do you know that you do not just think what you want to think, and then persuade yourself that it must be right because you think it., and that your opinion must be the voice of the Holy Spirit. Other people, jus as sincere, arrive at other conclusions. Why would it be wiser to accept your verdict rather than theirs? All kinds of strange religions have been given to the world by men who have declared with the utmost confidence that the Holy Spirit is responsible for their ideas. St. John warns us: “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into this world.” And he adds, “He that heareth not us, is not of God. By this we know the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.”

(from radio replies #515)

I agree! We must be careful not to be misled with false interpretations. Satan tries to get us to believe that we are right when we’re really not. That’s why it is important to pray for guidance and wisdom and Truth!
John 6:26 Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.

 

[runandsew]

I agree! We must be careful not to be misled with false interpretations. Satan tries to get us to believe that we are right when we’re really not. That’s why it is important to pray for guidance and wisdom and Truth!
John 6:26 Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.

And that is what is at the core of the issue, how do we know that it is the Holy Spirit that is guiding us? Even if we pray for guidance and wisdom, how do we know that it is God guiding us in our interpretation?

We know that the Church is guarded from staying from the truth, by the promise of Jesus, so if we follow what she teaches we should be safe.

Again, we can read and interpret the bible for our edification, but if it leads us astray from the Church and her teachings, then one would have to question if it is the Holy Spirit leading them.

I emailed Jimmy with the question about the 8 passages, hopefully he will respond, I know he is a busy man.