Interview for Pre-Conciliar Catholics

[jesusalright4me]

Hello! So, these days one hears much about the Church before Vatican II. Growing up, I was always taught that it was generally bad. I was told that people had no idea what was going on in the Mass. They felt as if Father Joe Smoe was participating in his own thing in Latin while everyone else observed/prayed their rosaries. I have heard that, when it came to private prayer, Catholics simply prayed their rosaries, and never read the Bible. I have heard things to the contrary as well. For example, upon asking my grandmother about the Latin Mass, she told me that she tells her friends that she wishes they would have an Extraordinary Form at our parish at least “once a month or so.”

But I want to hear strait from the sources. So, pre-concilar (those born before Vatican II) Catholics, share your stories. What was it like growing up in the pre-concilar world? Was it dark and gloomy? Did people understand to an extent of what went on at the Mass? Did people really have an apathy for things like ad orientem, altar rails, and Latin? What was going to Mass like? Did people understand the Real Presence? Did more people take the Sacraments more seriously (e.g. more Confession, and less Communion when one was not worthy)? Were Masses always celebrated with reverence, or were there cases of priests rushing through the Latin? Did you ever read the Bible outside of Mass? Were there better priests? What were vocations to the priesthood/religious life like? Did you associate with Protestants/other faiths as much? What did you think of the changes after Vatican II? Were they good, or bad? What was the transition period like?

Feel free to answer some or all of these or to say anything else that you wish to say! God bless!

 

[StBenedictLabre]

Looking forward to reading these responses…

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Hello! So, these days one hears much about the Church before Vatican II. Growing up, I was always taught that it was generally bad. I was told that people had no idea what was going on in the Mass. They felt as if Father Joe Smoe was participating in his own thing in Latin while everyone else observed/prayed their rosaries. I have heard that, when it came to private prayer, Catholics simply prayed their rosaries, and never read the Bible. I have heard things to the contrary as well. For example, upon asking my grandmother about the Latin Mass, she told me that she tells her friends that she wishes they would have an Extraordinary Form at our parish at least “once a month or so.”

But I want to hear strait from the sources. So, pre-concilar (those born before Vatican II) Catholics, share your stories. What was it like growing up in the pre-concilar world? Was it dark and gloomy? Did people understand to an extent of what went on at the Mass? Did people really have an apathy for things like ad orientem, altar rails, and Latin? What was going to Mass like? Did people understand the Real Presence? Did more people take the Sacraments more seriously (e.g. more Confession, and less Communion when one was not worthy)? Were Masses always celebrated with reverence, or were there cases of priests rushing through the Latin? Did you ever read the Bible outside of Mass? Were there better priests? What were vocations to the priesthood/religious life like? Did you associate with Protestants/other faiths as much? What did you think of the changes after Vatican II? Were they good, or bad? What was the transition period like?

Feel free to answer some or all of these or to say anything else that you wish to say! God bless!

Since you are quite new to the page, you may find it most helpful to make sure you have read the norms about posts and questions – especially when you are asking certain compare and contrast questions.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=488839

 

[Megan7]

Hello! So, these days one hears much about the Church before Vatican II. Growing up, I was always taught that it was generally bad. I was told that people had no idea what was going on in the Mass. They felt as if Father Joe Smoe was participating in his own thing in Latin while everyone else observed/prayed their rosaries. I have heard that, when it came to private prayer, Catholics simply prayed their rosaries, and never read the Bible. I have heard things to the contrary as well. For example, upon asking my grandmother about the Latin Mass, she told me that she tells her friends that she wishes they would have an Extraordinary Form at our parish at least “once a month or so.”

But I want to hear strait from the sources. So, pre-concilar (those born before Vatican II) Catholics, share your stories. What was it like growing up in the pre-concilar world? Was it dark and gloomy? Did people understand to an extent of what went on at the Mass? Did people really have an apathy for things like ad orientem, altar rails, and Latin? What was going to Mass like? Did people understand the Real Presence? Did more people take the Sacraments more seriously (e.g. more Confession, and less Communion when one was not worthy)? Were Masses always celebrated with reverence, or were there cases of priests rushing through the Latin? Did you ever read the Bible outside of Mass? Were there better priests? What were vocations to the priesthood/religious life like? Did you associate with Protestants/other faiths as much? What did you think of the changes after Vatican II? Were they good, or bad? What was the transition period like?

Feel free to answer some or all of these or to say anything else that you wish to say! God bless!

Looking forward to reading the replies in this thread.
Thank you for starting it.

For what it is worth, my great grandparents & other relatives loved the Latin Mass. And from what I understand the transition period was different from parish to parish, state to state & of course if you looked at different countries (some slower than others).

God bless you,

Pax+

 

[Sunbreak]

Some people used to say rosaries during Mass, not all. Even as a child, I followed the Mass in my Latin/English missal and could tell at which point in the Mass we were. It’s not that Catholics didn’t read the Bible at all - everyone seemed to have one in the house but it was the interpretation that we weren’t supposed to do on our own. The Mass was not dark and gloomy. I quite enjoyed a high (sung) Mass as a child. Of course, a funeral Mass was gloomy with the priest wearing black and the Dies Irae being sung. There seemed to be more vocations but there was more pressure to do so. Keep in mind that there used to be what they called “minor seminaries” which was essentially high school for boys who thought they may have a vocation. Not many 13 or 14 year olds are really capable of making a decision like that which is probably part of the reason that they discontinued these schools.

 

[commenter]

Looking forward to reading these responses…

Sounds like a pretty bland thread topic. I don’t anticipate any disagreement or controversy here. I doubt it will get many responses or views at all.

 

[commenter]

Hello! So, these days one hears much about the Church before Vatican II. Growing up, I was always taught that it was generally bad. I was told that people had no idea what was going on in the Mass. They felt as if Father Joe Smoe was participating in his own thing in Latin while everyone else observed/prayed their rosaries. I have heard that, when it came to private prayer, Catholics simply prayed their rosaries, and never read the Bible. I have heard things to the contrary as well. For example, upon asking my grandmother about the Latin Mass, she told me that she tells her friends that she wishes they would have an Extraordinary Form at our parish at least “once a month or so.”

But I want to hear strait from the sources. So, pre-concilar (those born before Vatican II) Catholics, share your stories. What was it like growing up in the pre-concilar world? Was it dark and gloomy? Did people understand to an extent of what went on at the Mass? Did people really have an apathy for things like ad orientem, altar rails, and Latin? What was going to Mass like? Did people understand the Real Presence? Did more people take the Sacraments more seriously (e.g. more Confession, and less Communion when one was not worthy)? Were Masses always celebrated with reverence, or were there cases of priests rushing through the Latin? Did you ever read the Bible outside of Mass? Were there better priests? What were vocations to the priesthood/religious life like? Did you associate with Protestants/other faiths as much? What did you think of the changes after Vatican II? Were they good, or bad? What was the transition period like?

Feel free to answer some or all of these or to say anything else that you wish to say! God bless!

It was mostly good! There were problems, different kinds of problems than are frequent today, both in Mass and outside. There were also many good things. Priests were mostly reverent, as they are today.

I am tempted to write more, but my main focus is to live the Catholic life in 2016, and help others to do so. I am tempted to compare my childhood home to the home I live in today, but that childhood home is gone. What is important for me, now, is to make my current home as good as can be. I try not to dwell on comparisons because that distracts me from my current spiritual duties.

 

[ProVobis]

Sounds like a pretty bland thread topic. I don’t anticipate any disagreement or controversy here. I doubt it will get many responses or views at all.

Slow night.

 

[Exsultet]

… say anything else that you wish to say!

I, for one, would be interested in knowing why you’re asking these questions. Is there an interesting context behind this you’d like to share?

 

[zab]

I can testify along with Sunbreak that even as a child I had no difficulty following along in our English/Latin Missal. There was a certain sacred mysteriousness about the Mass but it was not a deterrent for understanding or wanting to understand my Catholic Faith. In those days, we school children had to memorize our catechism and most likely the Holy Spirit had a lot to do with guiding our understanding. I would rather put it that I loved the Mass than to say now that I loved the Latin Mass. But I was fortunate to have good devout parents and I went to Mass every day. The school children used to attend Mass every day and our family also went to Mass on Saturday evening before it became a Vigil Mass for Sunday. While I was still in grade school, the rule changed and the Mass time was moved to before school started so that we were not required to attend Mass any more. This was when the Mass was still in Latin. But My brothers and sisters and I continued to attend Mass along with a few, very few, other children. I was saddened that I did not see many of my classmates at Church on Sunday either. We only had to fast for three hours from food and one hour from drink. But I know that my parents were relieved that they no longer had to fast from the night before to receive Communion.

 

[baliano]

A few observations, things that are most obvious to me.

I was an altar boy in the '50’s so I had the advantage of being close enough to the priest to hear him, in fact I had to in order to respond properly. For those in the congregation the typical St. Joseph Missal provided both the Latin and English and the priest gave ample cues during Mass to allow them to follow along. During a Missa Cantata or a High Mass the Latin was clearly audible making it easy to follow along. Yes, some did choose to pray their rosary during Mass, I see nothing wrong with that provides they paid proper respect during critical Mass parts such as the Consecration.

My personal observation having experienced both is that there actually was more reverence evident in the TLM. I say evident because it isn’t possible to know what is in the hearts and minds of the congregation during the Novus Ordo. Outwardly the Novus Ordo seems more socially centered. During the TLM the priest and altar boys entered directly from the sacristy ringing a bell in the process to alert the congregation and the Mass began immediately. In every Novus Ordo I have attended there is an invitation to greet those around us, not sure what that has to do with the Mass, we should be getting mentally ans spiritually prepared for what is about to happen at the altar. A procession down the main aisle of the altar servers bearing candles and an elevated crucifix, readers, deacon often bearing the book of Gospels reading and finally the priest(s) which to me shifts the emphasis from God to the celebrant and entourage.

During a Low Mass there was no singing which allowed the congregation to truly concentrate on the Mass, allow more involvement in the spirituality of the Mass, After communion it was common to silently pray select prayers in thanksgiving for what was just received, today some diocese require the congregation to assume a specific posture supposedly to present a sense of community and the choir sings unceasingly, neither of which are conducive to meditation or private prayer.

 

[OraLabora]

A few observations, things that are most obvious to me.

I was an altar boy in the '50’s so I had the advantage of being close enough to the priest to hear him, in fact I had to in order to respond properly. For those in the congregation the typical St. Joseph Missal provided both the Latin and English and the priest gave ample cues during Mass to allow them to follow along. During a Missa Cantata or a High Mass the Latin was clearly audible making it easy to follow along. Yes, some did choose to pray their rosary during Mass, I see nothing wrong with that provides they paid proper respect during critical Mass parts such as the Consecration.

My personal observation having experienced both is that there actually was more reverence evident in the TLM. I say evident because it isn’t possible to know what is in the hearts and minds of the congregation during the Novus Ordo. Outwardly the Novus Ordo seems more socially centered. During the TLM the priest and altar boys entered directly from the sacristy ringing a bell in the process to alert the congregation and the Mass began immediately. In every Novus Ordo I have attended there is an invitation to greet those around us, not sure what that has to do with the Mass, we should be getting mentally ans spiritually prepared for what is about to happen at the altar. A procession down the main aisle of the altar servers bearing candles and an elevated crucifix, readers, deacon often bearing the book of Gospels reading and finally the priest(s) which to me shifts the emphasis from God to the celebrant and entourage.

During a Low Mass there was no singing which allowed the congregation to truly concentrate on the Mass, allow more involvement in the spirituality of the Mass, After communion it was common to silently pray select prayers in thanksgiving for what was just received, today some diocese require the congregation to assume a specific posture supposedly to present a sense of community and the choir sings unceasingly, neither of which are conducive to meditation or private prayer.

I only attend the OF Mass and I have never in my region seen an invitation to greet one another at the start of Mass. And our schola bounces around from parish to parish so I get to see what is done in the ones we visit, so it must be a local thing.

As for the procession, this has been a traditional monastic practice for millennia for both Mass and the main hours of the Divine Office, and takes place as the introit is sung for Mass, or as the bell rings for the Divine Office.

 

[felsguy]

Hello! So, these days one hears much about the Church before Vatican II. Growing up, I was always taught that it was generally bad. I was told that people had no idea what was going on in the Mass. They felt as if Father Joe Smoe was participating in his own thing in Latin while everyone else observed/prayed their rosaries. I have heard that, when it came to private prayer, Catholics simply prayed their rosaries, and never read the Bible. I have heard things to the contrary as well. For example, upon asking my grandmother about the Latin Mass, she told me that she tells her friends that she wishes they would have an Extraordinary Form at our parish at least “once a month or so.”

But I want to hear strait from the sources. So, pre-concilar (those born before Vatican II) Catholics, share your stories. What was it like growing up in the pre-concilar world? Was it dark and gloomy? Did people understand to an extent of what went on at the Mass? Did people really have an apathy for things like ad orientem, altar rails, and Latin? What was going to Mass like? Did people understand the Real Presence? Did more people take the Sacraments more seriously (e.g. more Confession, and less Communion when one was not worthy)? Were Masses always celebrated with reverence, or were there cases of priests rushing through the Latin? Did you ever read the Bible outside of Mass? Were there better priests? What were vocations to the priesthood/religious life like? Did you associate with Protestants/other faiths as much? What did you think of the changes after Vatican II? Were they good, or bad? What was the transition period like?

Feel free to answer some or all of these or to say anything else that you wish to say! God bless!

First of all, by age and experience I definitely do qualify as a “source.” Second, it would take a book to answer all your questions adequately (and many have already been written from many different viewpoints.) That said, I’ll offer a few of my recollections.

First, THE CHURCH WAS NOT BAD BEFORE VATICAN II ! Oh, was I shouting? You bet. I can’t emphasize that point enough. There were just some things that could have and should have been improved.

I certainly do not recall it as a dark and gloomy time. However preaching and teaching was centered mostly on not breaking the ten commandments of the Old Testament and the six commandments of the Church and not so much on observing the two great commandments of the New Testament. People had at least a basic understanding of what the Mass was about but we were more like spectators than participants. We could use a “prayerbook” with prayers which corresponded to the various parts of the Mass but generally were not translations of the actual prayers the priest was saying, or say the Rosary, or meditate or sometime just daydream. AND VERY FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD LATIN (oops, there I go shouting again) or cared too. Some (many? most?) priests celebrated Mass reverently. There were always a few (usually they seemed old and cranky, at least to us kids) who seemed to be in a big hurry to be elsewhere. We weren’t at all upset by the celebrant facing away from us (never heard it described as ad orientem until recently) or kneeling at the communion rail to receive Holy Communion as it was usually called then; we never knew anything different or frankly that it ever could be different.

Some folks read the Bible on occasion (my mother’s New Testament is right here on my shelf) although probably not as many or as often as today but I certainly don’t recall it ever being discouraged. But hanging out with those durn Protestants, yeh, that was certainly discouraged to put it mildly.

Again, just trip down memory lane for this old guy born and raised in a Catholic family who went to a Catholic grade school, high school, and college starting in the late 1940’s and was an altar boy (definitely “no girls need apply” in those day) for most of those years.

 

[felsguy]

Again, just trip down memory lane for this old guy born and raised in a Catholic family who went to a Catholic grade school, high school, and college starting in the late 1940’s and was an altar boy (definitely “no girls need apply” in those day) for most of those years, all in the US Midwest - added for clarification.

 

[zab]

I keep reading about people praying their rosaries during Mass before Vatican II. I never prayed my rosary during Mass and I don’t recall ever seeing my parents, relatives or others praying the rosary during Mass. I suppose that their were some people that did, if they say so. I just don’t recall it a large number of people doing that. As far as remembering what the homilies were about at that time, I don’t recall that either. I guess some people’s memories must be much better than mine. I do recall a joke, however, that one priest told more than once. It was about a new convert named Dominic. The pastor asked if he could assist at being an usher. He agreed but asked when should he take up the collection. The pastor told him not to worry that he would give him a signal. The day of Dominic’s first duty as usher came and immediately after Mass the pastor realized that he forgot to tell Dominic when to take up the collection. The worried pastor was amazed when he saw that the collection was several times larger than usual, so he asked Dominic, “How did you know when to take up the collection?” Dominic replied, “Oh, I got your signal, Father. Every time you said, “Dominic go frisk 'em” I took up the collection.”

 

[jeannetherese]

I liked your joke, Zab.
I assisted at only one Latin Mass during my childhood, as I was a post-conciliar baby, but I still recall the peace that came over the church when our priest opened the Mass in Latin.
That memory led me to visit a FSSP parish when I read about the traditional Mass being offered locally.
I love the contemplative spirituality which I associate with this Mass.
If there is a parish in your area which offers this Mass, O.P., I hope you have the opportunity to visit.
May God bless you and all who visit this thread.
Amen.

 

[jesusalright4me]

Since you are quite new to the page, you may find it most helpful to make sure you have read the norms about posts and questions – especially when you are asking certain compare and contrast questions.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=488839

I gave them a read, rest assured I am not trying to make a war or anything. I am just genuinely curious. I love the Latin Mass but regularly attend a NO. It is my sincere hope that this thread does not become a ground for arguments.

I, for one, would be interested in knowing why you’re asking these questions. Is there an interesting context behind this you’d like to share?

It starts with my first encounter with the EF just this last year. I am a college student who was (obviously) raised in post-concilar times. I fell in love with the Eucharist during my late high school years. As I learned more about the faith, I heard about the reverence displayed towards the Sacrament of the Eucharist at the EF and was drawn to attend one, which I did last October. I was stunned. Since then, I have learned more and more about the traditional Mass, and as I learned more, I learned that, if properly understood, it was not as bad as everyone had always described it to me. I was curious to see if older folks who grew up with it perceived it with the bad attitude that it often is portrayed with.

 

[jesusalright4me]

I liked your joke, Zab.
I assisted at only one Latin Mass during my childhood, as I was a post-conciliar baby, but I still recall the peace that came over the church when our priest opened the Mass in Latin.
That memory led me to visit a FSSP parish when I read about the traditional Mass being offered locally.
I love the contemplative spirituality which I associate with this Mass.
If there is a parish in your area which offers this Mass, O.P., I hope you have the opportunity to visit.
May God bless you and all who visit this thread.
Amen.

The closest EF Mass celebrated is at a parish church 55 minutes away from my college, sadly. That said, I try to go when I can. I have been to two in my life thus far. I know for a fact that, if I ever find myself in a city near one at any point in my life, I will be attending the EF, if not regularly, than at least monthly!

 

[felsguy]

We could use a “prayerbook” with prayers which corresponded to the various parts of the Mass but** generally were not translations of the actual prayers the priest was saying,** or say the Rosary, or meditate or sometime just daydream.

I must correct myself here. There were indeed prayerbooks (daily missals) for the laity which had translations of the prayers of the Mass back then. Some had the Latin and English side by side. I found my Saint Andrew Daily Missal published in 1962 which just had the English except for the responses which would be said by the altar boys or sung by the choir.

 

[zab]

I gave them a read, rest assured I am not trying to make a war or anything. I am just genuinely curious. I love the Latin Mass but regularly attend a NO. It is my sincere hope that this thread does not become a ground for arguments.

It starts with my first encounter with the EF just this last year. I am a college student who was (obviously) raised in post-concilar times. I fell in love with the Eucharist during my late high school years. As I learned more about the faith, I heard about the reverence displayed towards the Sacrament of the Eucharist at the EF and was drawn to attend one, which I did last October. I was stunned. Since then, I have learned more and more about the traditional Mass, and as I learned more, I learned that, if properly understood, it was not as bad as everyone had always described it to me. I was curious to see if older folks who grew up with it perceived it with the bad attitude that it often is portrayed with.

That is just it, if the Mass is properly understood then the Mass should be revered no matter what form it is being offered in. To answer your question, I never had a bad attitude toward the Mass in Latin, but I did appreciate it being said in the vernacular. I remember the change as being a good time. It was only after time went by that we could look back and see where abuses crept in. Many churches had been remodeled and modernized, and not only that but the nuns giving up their habits. There seemed to be a loss of the sacred. Something was missing. But the Mass was still the Mass and Vatican has since given instructions or guidelines that are to be followed. So the Liturgical abuses have all been corrected- (or should have been.) In our parish they have been corrected and we have beautiful Liturgies in the Ordinary Form.