Invalid Conversion?

[timeraveler]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

 

[edward_george]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

First off, know that I will be praying for you, and feel free to PM me with any questions you have about the faith. I’m more than happy to answer whatever you might care to ask, and of course you can post your questions to these forums.

If you were baptized and confirmed, then you have been received into the Church and your conversion was “valid,” if you want to call it that. It doesn’t sound like you received very good pastoral care though, and that’s terribly unfortunate. If I were you, I’d perhaps find an RCIA course somewhere else and go through the instruction again. Of course, you can’t be received into the Church again, since you’ve already done it (this is a very good thing–you are already Catholic!), but you can go through the classes to learn what you’ve missed out on. I’m very sorry that this has been the situation with you, and I pray that you find somewhere you can learn what you need to.

-ACEGC

 

[ClearWater]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

I’m sorry you had a disappointing experience with RCIA. Yeah, I don’t know how you got through learning what you did. Sounds like you were missing a lot of things. That’s a shame. Can you go back and retake a refresher course with somebody else?

I’m presently in a pastoral group, here in Mexico. It meets about 2 hrs/week, and it has something like 13 years one can study. I’m in first year. There are also Catholic Bible studies I’d recommend to you that a lot of churches offer.

I look at this as a lifelong process. I go on the fórum and have learned a lot through that and Catholic radio, reading the Bible on my own. I decided to read it, cover to cover. I bought an illustrated book which gave some explanations. I read it, in Spanish! Spanish is my second language.

There are lots of ways to learn about the faith or be enriched, retreats.

One will never stop learning.

On my own, I also bought some books on apologetics, “Catholicism for Dummies”, Liturgy of the Hours. I’ve watched movies.

As to that particular RCIA, I thought it was a bit more standarized than that, but then again, what do I know? I wonder if somebody has to be notified about that, like the priest or bishop.

Anyway, I wouldn’t say your conversión was invalid. Strengthening one’s base certainly couldn’t, hurt though, right?

 

[Deana83]

My RCIA was pretty basic as well, although it was informative most of my understanding was gained through reading on my own. Scott Hahn has several books you may find helpful and the "Catechism of the Catholic Church,’ is really in depth. There’s also free cds that cover all the sacraments that you can get from Catholic websites for a small donation. But yes, if all I did was go to RCIA I don’t think I would have near the appreciation that I do for the church now. For me it was more of a place I could touch base with the instructors and the priest who was occasionally there. I would tell them whatever topic I had been reading about and present questions and then they would answer and sometimes it would spark some interesting class discussions. I love history so that helps- 2000 years of it for me to catch up on.

 

[Beryllos]

Sounds like you had a rough RCIA and Reception into the Catholic Church. The previous replies are great, and I would only add that you should try not to look back and regret that things could have or should have been better. Begin where you are today (as we each must), look in the direction forward, and take steps toward the life you desire. Strengthen your faith by whatever means are available to you. Look for ways to love God and love those around you. Pray for God’s grace and assistance. I’m praying for you too.

 

[JB_Dugan]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

So sorry about your unfulfilling experience.

RCIA depends so very much on a devoted and talented director as well as a pastor who supports the program.

Sounds like you really got “short changed”.

Most larger parishes have excellent and dynamic programs. In a former parish, we had a fantastic program. New converts, returning Catholics, some “just interested and questioning” individuals ,sponsors, companions, and some parishioners. who just wanted to learn more about their faith. Our line up of speakers consisted of well trained layity, visiting priests, our deacon, a couple of seminary students, and a theology professor who managed to cover the history of the papacy in 3 hours (if there were no questions). There were cookies, coffee and snacks, even pot luck dinners.
Emotions ran high after the Easter Vigil. Tears and joy and a great party well into the night.
I am now at a small rural parish with a seasonal congregation and retired locals. We have no RCIA program…there is just not much demand…so no real interest. Our pastor will spend time with anyone who is interested in the faith and lead them to conversion or he refers them to our neighboring parish that has a RCIA program.

Again I am sorry you missed on what should have been a wonderful educational and spiritual experience. You are a Catholic now…for better or worse. If the opportunity presents itself, and a more organized program is offered, you should try to join in. We had people repeat our process just because they liked it.

 

[Auntie_A]

I am so sorry for how you were neglected or mistaught. I experienced something similar when I was confirmed as an adult and I have spent many years playing catch-up. Close friends and nuns have helped me get up to speed, as well as re-attending R.C.I.A. in a better parish with a better teacher. Good luck. I’ll pray for you and others who have been shortchanged. What a shame!

 

[Furius]

This bothers me greatly. It is so difficult for Protestants to come to Christ’s Church to begin with, let alone having to deal with apathetic Catholics that seem to be disinterested in their conversion, especially when they WANT it! It’s sad you have been bouncing back and forth to many denoms.
They don’t see you for the precious gems that you are, and that is a shame. Protestant converts by and large have great zeal. Couple that zeal with Catholic Truth and you have some true blue fired up disciples.
Please do not let this apathy rub off on you or hinder your journey. I would have hoped they would have given you a conditional baptism, since you felt that your baptism as a child was questionable.
Satan has done a good job convincing Catholics to not evangelize our lost Christian brethren who are full of fire for Christ, but sadly, little else, especially truth and sound doctrine. I think Satan knows that if these people started entering the Church and started injecting their fire into the Church, he is gonna have his hands full. It grieves my heart and makes me cringe whenever I am talking to atheists and when they find out I’m Catholic, they many times say, “Ohhhhh, I love Catholics…you guys don’t preach.” Kills me…but then I kill their stereotype…hehe…

 

[ChurchSoldier]

If you hang around these forums you can get a pretty good understanding of the faith. As well, except for the initial Apostles, we don’t see Jesus going to fetch people, we see them being drawn to him. James 4:8 tells us to draw near to God and He will draw near to us. That is the process of spiritual growth you have expressed as a desire withn you. Go seek and you will find. Conversion begins with a one time act but is a process which continues throughout our lives.

Good luck in your journey.

 

[timeraveler]

I suppose, in the end, it boils down to a maturity issue. I don’t want to be one of those people that looks at what other people do and walk away from the church because of (largely imagined) slights or because of their apathy.
I am looking to educate myself better. It really comes down to my spiritual health is my responsibility, just like everything else. It just might have been easier had I been able to have a better experience. It doesn’t really mean I cannot go on to be a good catholic, does it?
I am in a struggle with my faith and this particular issue has been a sticking point. I am developing a devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus (on good days when I am able to get it done) and trying to move away from a neo-pagan practice. It has been a longtime struggle. It certainly isn’t easy, but maybe that’s the point.
I just get so frustrated sometimes with how I feel things should have been against how they have happened and it becomes difficult to deal with.

I am developing a special sympathy for those who feel short changed by this…

 

[Dorothy]

Perhaps you can take your concerns to a priest you admire and trust and have a chat with him.

Blessings to you for recognizing that some apathetic Catholics do not eclipse the Truth of the Catholic Church!

 

[timeraveler]

There are a lot of complications in my process. You are correct, Dorothy. I need to get to Mass and connect with a priest I can trust. (I have 2 small children who are no where near what I would call cooperative and I would be taking them with me and handling them by myself while dealing with a monumental anxiety issue with being out in public. ) Many people don’t understand just how difficult this can be because it isn’t their experience. As I said, I struggle and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. I have NO community except for what contact I am getting here, as far as spiritual community goes.

I am finding the oddest things happen on Saturday afternoons and evenings and then again on Sunday mornings…

I am making a real effort to stay with my prayer though. I don’t always succeed at this, but I am trying.

 

[Cricket2]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

I am sorry that your experience has been so inadequate. I would suggest you speak to a Priest at your local Parish and find out if you could attend RCIA classes to gain what you have been denied. Also there are a lot of good books out there that do explain our Faith.

I would not say your conversion is invalid. As a child you had no choice in how this was done or “failed to be done” in terms of your acceptance into the Church. But now as an adult you can make up for this by locating RCIA classes, reading, and speaking to a well grounded Priest. I would say you are in active conversion now, as we all are throughout life. Take your interest in the Faith as an invitation by God to know Him better.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Keep in mind, that you were called to join the Church by God.

So, regardless of the poor instruction your received in RCA, you are a valid Catholic.

Now, being you are a Catholic, the door is now open for you to get the education in the faith that will help you grow closer to Jesus.

The Church has a wealth of treasures to help us in the spiritual life. Many Catholics who were Baptized as infants, don’t even bother.

You however, were called by Christ to be one of his, which is why you have a burning desire to learn more about Him and the Church he established.

Stick around, you’ll find where Christ is leading you sooner than you expected.

Remember, to pray unceasingly.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Casilda]

There are a lot of complications in my process. You are correct, Dorothy. I need to get to Mass and connect with a priest I can trust. (I have 2 small children who are no where near what I would call cooperative and I would be taking them with me and handling them by myself while dealing with a monumental anxiety issue with being out in public. ) Many people don’t understand just how difficult this can be because it isn’t their experience. As I said, I struggle and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. I have NO community except for what contact I am getting here, as far as spiritual community goes.

I am finding the oddest things happen on Saturday afternoons and evenings and then again on Sunday mornings…

I am making a real effort to stay with my prayer though. I don’t always succeed at this, but I am trying.

I hear you loud and clear. I am on my fifth parish and as a revert I knew what to expect and still felt so lost. I have given up on that sense of community. We tried for months trying to get an appointment at our local home parish. We still attend a mass there once in awhile, we feel like ghosts that come and go. I know what you mean about lack of genuine interest on the part of RCIA directors and teachers, you have to care about each and every soul that the Lord has led to you. The way I have been treated, makes me want to be in charge and make sure I have parish faithful keep in touch with each and every inquirer. The parishes I have been to are huge, don’t tell me you don’t have enough sponsors. What they are full of is pew warmers that sit on their hands. It might take a bunch of former protestants ala the Scott Hahn’s to move Catholics into DOING. After three years of not having a home church, my husband and I plan to hit the ground running. That is assuming no more appointments to talk to a priest are broken and that the RCIA program at this parish is up to par. We still are on the outside looking in. We need more St. Philips that are moved by God to reach out to us Ethiopian eunuchs on the roadside…Acts 8:26-39.

 

[Mark86]

I didn’t even go through RCIA because the priest met with me personally to basically bring me up to speed and considered me to be well catechized at the time (and I couldn’t take the classes due to scheduling). However, I will be confirmed in the spring with the other candidates and he’s going to register me for the adult confirmation class happening within the diocese beforehand. I have no problem with that and I look forward to seeing what I can learn. I had a question myself about whether my conversion was valid and they told me the same thing “if you were validly baptized and confirmed by a validly ordained Catholic priest or bishop and you came to be baptized and confirmed, then it’s valid, and you’re a Catholic.” That should be a great relief.

I would suggest though that if you felt you didn’t really get the most out of RCIA that you look for opportunities as the other posters have said to take the classes. That’s what I’m going to do myself.

Grace and peace be with you.

 

[timeraveler]

I hear you loud and clear. I am on my fifth parish and as a revert I knew what to expect and still felt so lost. I have given up on that sense of community. We tried for months trying to get an appointment at our local home parish. We still attend a mass there once in awhile, we feel like ghosts that come and go. I know what you mean about lack of genuine interest on the part of RCIA directors and teachers, you have to care about each and every soul that the Lord has led to you. The way I have been treated, makes me want to be in charge and make sure I have parish faithful keep in touch with each and every inquirer. The parishes I have been to are huge, don’t tell me you don’t have enough sponsors. What they are full of is pew warmers that sit on their hands. It might take a bunch of former protestants ala the Scott Hahn’s to move Catholics into DOING. After three years of not having a home church, my husband and I plan to hit the ground running. That is assuming no more appointments to talk to a priest are broken and that the RCIA program at this parish is up to par. We still are on the outside looking in. We need more St. Philips that are moved by God to reach out to us Ethiopian eunuchs on the roadside…Acts 8:26-39.

I prayed about this issue this morning and could not shake the idea that perhaps those of us who feel so strongly about having been neglected or not having been given community (which IS one of the church’s purposes no matter how many people try to tell us it isn’t a social club) are supposed to step up and be the change we want to see. Perhaps, in time, I should step up and volunteer to give converts a better experience of entry into the Church. It might be that God wants me to do this for Him and it might be ‘my’ work. That may seem a bit far reaching given where I am in my spiritual development, but it stuck. I am thinking if it is the Holy Spirit, it won’t go away as i keep at this. Does anyone disagree with my approach?
Maybe it is just fanciful thinking?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I prayed about this issue this morning and could not shake the idea that perhaps those of us who feel so strongly about having been neglected or not having been given community (which IS one of the church’s purposes no matter how many people try to tell us it isn’t a social club) are supposed to step up and be the change we want to see. Perhaps, in time, I should step up and volunteer to give converts a better experience of entry into the Church. It might be that God wants me to do this for Him and it might be ‘my’ work. That may seem a bit far reaching given where I am in my spiritual development, but it stuck. I am thinking if it is the Holy Spirit, it won’t go away as i keep at this. Does anyone disagree with my approach?
Maybe it is just fanciful thinking?

Your idea of helping new converts may be very well what God is calling you to do.

Pray on it and if it is, your knowledge will come fast and solid, and you’ll be ready to help new converts.

Jim

 

[timeraveler]

Your idea of helping new converts may be very well what God is calling you to do.

Pray on it and if it is, your knowledge will come fast and solid, and you’ll be ready to help new converts.

Jim

Is that a way of discerning the Holy Spirit’s guidance in our lives? I must confess to having suffered quite a bit of confusion and a sense of having no direction up til now. I think that seeming lack of direction/guidance contributed to my having engaged in more than my fair share of spiritual kite flying. This time around has a different quality to it, seems more ‘solid’ and real to me (unsure how to describe it and these terms are lacking but are what I have). I have a sense of this being it. I feel I am making a spiritually mature decision this time instead of allowing my feelings to guide things. It is my fervent desire that this be the start of something very real with Our Lord. That it last this go around. I’m tired and I want peace with and in Him. It would be nice to know how to recognize that His holy Spirit is leading me and that I am beginning perhaps to understand His leading and can follow His lead without mucking things up again.

 

[josie_L]

When I went through RCIA I took a history class that covered some years of the Middle Ages Church, a brief sketch of confession, a tour of the church with some explanation of the basic layout of a church, and was given a ‘godmother’ that I spoke with once a few minutes before the Easter Mass where I was called a Catholic and allowed to take communion.
There was NO education about transubstantiation, nothing about Jesus or even the apostles, nothing about mass and how to participate. They accepted my baptism by a backwoods Baptist preacher at age 9 without question.
I really feel like I did not have a valid conversion. How can one be properly converted when they were not taught how to practice and why it is practiced?
It has made my spiritual life a living Hell, in my opinion. I have waffled back and forth between Catholicism, other denominations, and pagan religion since I was fifteen years old. Part of me feels that if I am to be Christian, it must be as a Catholic, but I must admit that I am quite discouraged. Does the church not care at all that people are attempting to come to the church and having these experiences? Do priests not care that people are struggling with this and potentially turning away from a relationship with the church and even Christ Himself? Do RCIA directors not care or just poorly trained?

Oh my goodness, I thought I was losing my mind, I posted a reply not knowing that you created a duplicate thread, i.e., I couldn’t find my post on THIS thread.