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Xpat
Guest
I would like to know where/when this expression first came into use in the context of no salvation outside the church. Can someone help a brotha out?
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mom_of_ten
Guest
I believe the following site will help you.
Remember, that “no Salvation outside the Church” refers to those who KNOW the Truth of the True Church and reject it…NOT to those, who by no fault of their own, do NOT know the Truth of the True Church.
Anyway, visit here…I think it will better explain:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm
Remember, that “no Salvation outside the Church” refers to those who KNOW the Truth of the True Church and reject it…NOT to those, who by no fault of their own, do NOT know the Truth of the True Church.
Anyway, visit here…I think it will better explain:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
testing
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Xpat
Guest
Thanks for the link mom of ten. It seems that those who support the “you must be an actual member of the RC Church” forget to mention those pre-VC II Church statements that mention invincible ignorance.
That said, I believe that only a tiny remnant of the world’s population could qualify as invincible ignorant.
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Maynoothman
Guest
I wouldnt agree totally with that. there might only be a tiny remnant who haven’t heard of jesus, but there are probably ALOT more who have heard of his name, but not the relevance of his existence.
I think that we arent meant to live in a Christian and catholic way to get into heaven, rather so that we live a good life and are happier in the long run!
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mom_of_ten
Guest
Precisely this was a MAJOR part of the Lord’s Agony in the Garden.
The Church Teaches that, not only was Jesus in Agony because of what He knew was about to happen to Him…but even more so…that He saw the MANY SOULS, who, after He lay down His life for them…would STILL reject HIS TRUTH.
And to the poster who suggests that living a Catholic Christian life is more to have a happy life, than to get to Heaven…let’s remember that Jesus said,“I am the WAY, the Truth, and the LIFE…He who believes in Me and follows My Commandments will have Eternal Life”…this would suggest GREATLY that living the Catholic/Christiian life is so that we can go to Heaven. We know that our Salvation is a Gift and nothing we do “earns” it…but if we truly believe in Him and follow His Commandments…we will live the life of the Church He established. Agree?
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rwoehmke
Guest
So in the end it is how one parses or defines the word “knows” that makes the difference? 
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kaycee
Guest
What if I believe that membership to the RCC is NOT neccessary.
I dont “know” this as a truth.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Remember, too, that “no salvation outside the Church” (when phrased positively rather than negatively) simply means that, all those who are saved are saved through the Catholic Church (See CCC 846-848)
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R_McGeddon
Guest
There is no “Invincible Ignorance” it is just something that is made up by the church.
It’s just another example of those non-answers for awkward questions.
It’s just another example of those non-answers for awkward questions.
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Michael96
Guest
That reminds me of a joke told to me by a very devout Catholic.
St. Peter was showing a new arrival, who was an Anglican, around heaven. “You Anglicans live over here, next to the Methodists. Over there are the baptists, presbyterians and free-churches. And the Catholics are behind that 100 ft wall over the other side”. The Anglican asked “why do you wall the Catholics off?”. “That’s to make them happier” said St. Peter “they do like to think they’re the only ones up here”
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
No, there really is such a thing as “invincible ignorance”. If you doubt it, go find an SDA and try discussing logic, philosophy or history.
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kaycee
Guest
So, those who dont believe the claims of the RCC are seen to invincibly ignorant?
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Nick_Jones
Guest
I don’t know who came up with this silly idea about “invincible ignorance” but whoever it was, must have been rather ignorant as well. It is unfortunate that anyone would teach that outside of Rome there is no salvation, and inexcusable for anyone to believe it. If I ever needed ONE good reason to think that the religion of Rome is nothing but a cult, this is it.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
No, that is not what I said. Notice that I specifically mentioned history, philosophy and logic. If you choose not to believe the claims of the RCC that is your right and the result of free will. If, on the other hand, you are incapable of believing not as a matter of personal choice but as the result of life long brainwashing that is invincible ignorance.
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R_McGeddon
Guest
Why is there? Is it because the catholic church tells you so?
It seems to me that there is a lot of: "because the catholic church says so" around here, and nobody appears to find that suspiciously convenient.
What would they say?
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kaycee
Guest
When your final authority is NOT the scripture, the only thing you can say is “because the church tells you so”.
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ni8_shadow
Guest
Well, the Church exercises her Christ-given authority, just as Christ intended. The Church was the court of last appeal, it is the Church that is the Pillar of Truth, and whomever hears the Church, hears Him, whatever the Church binds on earth will be bound in Heaven.
So I really don’t see how there is a problem with seeing the Church as an authority.
So I really don’t see how there is a problem with seeing the Church as an authority.
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R_McGeddon
Guest
Yes but the church is run by people and people make mistakes.
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