Iota Unum by Romano Amerio

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StudentMI said:
If you want my honest opinion, the sooner the Council is forgotten about the better.
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I think what can happen is that young priests and Catholics in general can rebuild the foundations of the Faith by recapturing the pre-Vatican II teachings and bringing them back into the mainstream of the Church again.
I am seeing this happen in many ways. Some are interested in the rightness of the Crusades, for example - which would be forbidden by Vatican II.
Others are realizing that we should evangelize Jews and not just consider them to be our “friends” as if they do not need conversion, and as if modern Judiasm is 100% compatible with Catholicism. Things like that - maybe one document at a time they are forgotten and just replaced in practice.
Bishop Schneider believes that Vatican II should be corrected and revised. But it may be too messy to undertake such a thing. Forgetting it is better.
The previous two Popes attempted to do some reconciliation.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church was an attempt to correct the Spirit of Vatican II. Pope Benedict XVI attempted it also, but in both cases Vatican II is used as an authoritative foundation, and it’s really not meant for that. it was “pastoral” so changing some disciplines but not the radical changes we have seen. That’s because of the ambiguity of the documents - preplanned for future changes.
 
I have The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber. It’s been republished under a new name but I have the TAN Books edition. That is a real page turner too.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
That being said, I’ve never heard de Chardin called a false teacher or a false prophet. I’m not terribly familiar with him. Would you mind giving some examples of his false teachings?
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These are from TAN Books. This is really good:

https://www.tanbooks.com/catalogsearch/result/?attr=0&q=Wickens

I actually gave that away and am now sorry I did.

This I haven’t read yet:

https://www.tanbooks.com/teilhardis...hings-of-pierre-teilhard-de-chardin-3217.html
 
That one by Wolfgang Smith on Teilhard is magnificent. He goes into depth, but by the time it’s over, you learn how totally corrupted and hateful of the magisterium Teilhard de Chardin had become – and how much influence he had. It was one of the most eye opening books I had read, and now I want to read all of Dr. Smith’s works.

The Father Wikens book is good also. We have to save our old Tan Books - they are becoming extinct now. Some will not be reprinted probably.
 
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Michael Davies - Pope John’s Council. I’m reading that now. It’s excellent.
Bishop Graber - Athanasius and the Church of Our Time. Very short but deep and useful.

I want to get Bishop Schneider’s book but it’s a bit expensive.
 
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Bill_B_NY said:
*Dignitatis humanae

“So the state, whose proper purpose it is to provide for the temporal common good, should certainly recognize and promote the religious life of its citizens. With equal certainty it exceeds the limits of its authority, if it takes upon itself to direct or to prevent religious activity.”[59]
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Dogmas don’t change. Practices sometimes need to.

The bishops at the Council were very familiar with how church/state combinations had been “working” in recent decades in Europe and Latin America. They saw any advantage came with a heavy price: government interference in appointment of bishops, interference in ministry, and a long term perception by the population that the Church is a mere servant of the government.

The Church has always tweaked its practices, based on new data, and different conditions that were not present when the practices began.

Any kind of learning from experience causes “conflicts” with an earlier point in time when there was less experience.
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commenter said:
The Church has always tweaked its practices, based on new data, and different conditions that were not present when the practices began.
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On that basis, as Abp Vigano says, Vatican II documents can be safely forgotten. We’ve had 60 years to experiment with them - and the experiment has mostly (not completely) failed. This question of religious liberty has lead to a breakdown in missionary efforts and the false idea that “God wills a diversity of religions” as well as “Catholics should not attempt to convert Jews”… So, it really has not worked.
 
“recognizing the infiltration of the enemy into the heart of the Church, the systematic occupation of key posts … We should also recognize the inadequacy of the response of the good, the naivety of many, the fearfulness of others, and the interests of those who have benefited thanks to that conspiracy”
(Vigano interview with Lawler)
Vigano is describing bishops already in place before V2 - some downright evil, some naive, some fearful, some arguably corrupt or inadequate.

All trained and repeatedly promoted in the 60 years prior to V2! If you accept Vigano’s analysis, you would say that system - the Church of 1960 that produced them - needed a little tweaking.

It doesn’t sound like a system you want to restore.
 
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Bill_B_NY said:
We have to save our old Tan Books - they are becoming extinct now. Some will not be reprinted probably.
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A fellow who used to attend our parish once worked for TAN Books. He told me that when Mr. Nelson retired and St. Benedict Press took over, a lot of the anti-Modernist titles were discontinued. I’m happy they actually still have those 2 items.
 
commenter said:
All trained and repeatedly promoted in the 60 years prior to V2! If you accept Vigano’s analysis, you would say that system - the Church of 1960 that produced them - needed a little tweaking.

It doesn’t sound like a system you want to restore.
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I agree 100%. I’m not talking about restoring a system. Discarding bad teaching from the past, does not mean we have to return to something also in the past. We can move forward, bringing the traditional teaching to a new awareness in our contemporary world. The teachers you refer to are those Abp Vigano is pointing to - the neo-modernists who came before the Council. Some were already condemned by the Holy See, but they somehow rehabilitated themselves or talked themselves back into the limelight and had a negative effect overall. I think those false teachers shoud be re-named again. Pope Pius XII condemned them but didn’t name them.
I’m not talking about nostalgia or going back to the past.
The Holy Spirit will refine and purify and continue to bring something new and better.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
He told me that when Mr. Nelson retired and St. Benedict Press took over, a lot of the anti-Modernist titles were discontinued.
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Mr Nelson is one of the greatest heroes of the Faith in my life. I owe him so much - and pray for him. What he did was remarkable at the time, and he changed the face of the Church in the USA. Tan Books was a lifeline. There was really nowhere else for a while. No internet or email. No ebooks. We just had Tan and a couple of others - and some magazines.

Yes, I am sorry to see what happened with the new owners of Tan. They have taken a different direction. We need those anti-modernist titles more now than ever it seems.
 
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A very important anti-modernist book, which is rare and expensive to find now (the reviewer, Marcel Clement was a great traditionalist Catholic of the era):

GETHSEMANE: Reflections on the Contemporary Theological Movement

by Joseph Cardinal Siri

Review by Marcel Clement in “L’Homme Nouveau” (January 4, 1981)

"What is an event? Commonly understood it is something that occurs. In our times avid for sensation, it is what surprises. In saying that the publication of Cardinal Siri’s book on the contemporary theological movement is an event, I mean to say that this publication is an important landmark. It is going to mark, it already marks, the history of contemporary thought, and as a matter of fact, the history of the contemporary Church.

"The book which Cardinal Siri has just published simultaneously in Italy and in France (and now in the U.S.A.) seems to me a privileged example of that new strength of the Church, wise and sovereign critique and fully apt at exercising her discernment as regards the different ‘novelties.’ Cardinal Siri gives to all Catholics, and more broadly to all Christians, an instrument of culture which is absolutely unique.

"He explains himself regarding this in the final chapter:

“Under the influence of thinkers whose names are familiar and whom one believes to be without impact because they have been dead a long time (Vico, Kant), modern or quite contemporary theologians have interpreted and distorted the knowledge that Christ communicated about himself. While keeping the words of the Gospel, explanatory theories have been built which change the content of these words. Thanks to a large number of fictitious arguments,” a direct or indirect contestation, hidden or admitted, of the integral reality of the ‘Son of God’ has been raised in the Christian consciousness.

"It is at Gethsemane, in the enclosure of Gethsemane where Cardinal Siri agreed to situate his prayer and his reflection, that temptations against the faith can be overcome: ‘The ‘Fiat’ of Gethsemane was the accomplishment, in a-new stage, of the first ‘Fiat’ of the human being Mary.’ Such is the theological thread of this beautiful book.

"It must be read. One must have others read it. It must be given. The most beautiful pages must be emphasized and made known. That is at least the conviction which has risen in me after having slowly meditated it, line by line, from one end to the other. “The L’Osservatore Romano devoted an entire page to a review of this book by Raimondo Spiazzi. It is a supplementary guarantee of the significance of a work which concerns not only a single diocese or a single country, but the universal Church.”
- Marcel Clement
 
Cardinal Siri was almost as conservative as Archbishop Lefebvre, and a contemporary of Cardinal Ottaviani, and after the election of Cardinal Wojtyla Cardinal Siri implied he did not approve.
 
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