IQ and Being Religious

[Havard]

Copypasted from Wikipedia:

Attempted explanations have included improved nutrition, a trend towards smaller families, better education, greater environmental complexity, and heterosis[8]. Another proposition is greater familiarity with multiple-choice questions and experience with brain-teaser IQ problems.

Many studies find that children who do not attend school for one reason or another score lower on the tests than their regularly attending peers. During the 1960s, when some Virginia counties closed their public schools to avoid racial integration, compensatory private schooling was available only for Caucasian children. On average, the scores of African-American children who did not receive formal education during that period decreased at a rate of about six IQ points per year.

What I’m getting at is that the kinds of people who have the advantages stated in the above wiki article are more likely to live in post-Christian, urban parts of the West and Far East… I’m not surprised at the generalization.

 

[Bluegoat]

Most people do not get a good education in logic, philosophy, or how to think, much less history. Even many very intelligent people lack the tools to really consider religion in a fair and educated way. They do tend to get better education in the sciences, and so often very bright people go there for answers, and simply never look into those other areas of thought. Look how many comments in this thread mention religious scientists - nary a one mentions religious philosophers, which would seem to be more to the point.

There are lots of very intelligent, and well educated people among some Christian groups. Catholics, Anglicans, the Orthodox, Lutherans, and Presbyterians too have a tradition of intellectual discourse.

But as others have pointed out, some of the most visible groups, especially in the US, are from groups that tend to be suspicious of that tradition, and may even attract people with lower IQs. I would suggest that perhaps we could say that fundamentalists (including Catholic ones!) tend to be less intelligent.

But to put this in perspective, it really isn’t an argument. To say more religious people are of low intelligence, therefore religion must be untrue, it clearly a fallacious argument.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I found an article which is about a year or 2 old, stating that studies show the higer one’s IQ, the less likely they are to be religious. It kind of upset me to read that, since I’m Catholic and am not an intellectual. What do you make of this?

Take comfort in the fact that any standardized “test” (including of the IQ variety ) is inherently biased one way or another, usually culturally. So, in some circles, “having an average or high IQ” simply means that someone is capable of passing a particular culturally-biased standardized test. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Fran65]

However, there are associations between higher IQ and income, employment, health, marital stability and even longevity. It seems that IQ may be measuring factors that are associated with success in Western societies.

I like Gardner’s concept of multiple intelliegences.

The research as cited could be a ‘clumsy’ attempt at arguing against religious faith, and spreading a stereotype that will lead to avoidance of religious practice and faith.

 

[Malia_Belen]

Also, don’t forget to those of us that believe in God and are religious… we generally consider other stuff more important then getting a Ph.d or making a ton of money. As I mentioned before there are quite a few missionaries out there who can pick up a language like that and are multilingual. I’ll bet those people have high i.qs…you just never hear about them because this world doesn’t value God as it should. I remember having a conversation with a couple of friends all of whom were in college or thinking about college and they we were talking about how we secretly would be happy staying at home with our kids…so I imagine there are tons of religious people with high i.q. they just don’t have the multiple degrees or the i.q. test to prove it…they’d rather do the things that make them happy like serve God and be with their families.

 

[Fran65]

As I mentioned before there are quite a few missionaries out there who can pick up a language like that and are multilingual.

Yes, Howard Gardner identifies verbal - linguistic ability as one of the ‘intelligences’ in his theory of multiple intelligences.

so I imagine there are tons of religious people with high i.q. they just don’t have the multiple degrees or the i.q. test to prove it…they’d rather do the things that make them happy like serve God and be with their families.

 

[dakotagirl]

Dumb question here: isn’t IQ supposed to measure ability to do well in school, only?
That is what they learned me in skool anyway: that IQ tests (at least originally were designed to) measure a few narrow skills associated with traditional learning approaches.
I also like Gardner’s approach, not (just) because it makes me feel better, but because I have witnessed people in “average” or “lesser” occupations, who according to them, did average in school, and yet by middle age had managed to climb into the upper echelons of management, and do QUITE well for themselves, thank you.

 

[Malia_Belen]

Dumb question here: isn’t IQ supposed to measure ability to do well in school, only?
That is what they learned me in skool anyway: that IQ tests (at least originally were designed to) measure a few narrow skills associated with traditional learning approaches.
I also like Gardner’s approach, not (just) because it makes me feel better, but because I have witnessed people in “average” or “lesser” occupations, who according to them, did average in school, and yet by middle age had managed to climb into the upper echelons of management, and do QUITE well for themselves, thank you.

Yes, you’re right…I do believe that was the original reason for the I.Q. test. Especially since a good part of many I.Q. tests have to do with vocabulary. So, new English speakers and people who grew up in an environment where they couldn’t afford the experiences and the many products out their to increase vocabulary wouldn’t do well on an average I.Q. tests.

I have met children from poor countries who now live here who have never been to the zoo and had no idea what animals like zebras etc are…heck…some of them couldn’t even afford books or the bus trip to the library to get books…imagine how well they did on those yearly achievement tests.

 

[Magdalena09]

I have struggled with this in a personal way before, but not necessarily relating it specifically to IQ.

I think there are several factors that could contribute to the outcome of the study, most of which have already been mentioned in some capacity.

Anyone who has lived in a “bible belt” area of the US knows that there are many people that are JUST not that bright… that happen to be Christian… because just about everyone is Christian in the bible belt, whether they are practicing their faith or not… the whole once saved, always saved thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve received forwards with the most ridiculous misinformation about them forwarded to me by my protestant friends, or read status updates on social networking sites by them which shows a lack of interest in fact-checking or just plain crazy rumor-spreading. On the other hand, Catholics who are involved in and practicing their faith are usually simultaneously exploring and deepening it–which often involves reading or learning in some form or fashion.

I also think part of it is that once you have found God, and if you continue to place your trust in Him, you don’t have a burning desire to find out every last answer to every last question imaginable. Most of the extremely intelligent people I know who are not people of faith are caught up in trying to understand the logic of an ultimate being, a creator, where did it come from, why are there other planets, etc… I am content with not having all the answers, many people who aren’t religious are not content with not knowing with absolute certainty.

As for my personal struggle, before I became Catholic, I used to be so jealous of people who seemed to be able to just “turn off their brain” and be completely content with not questioning anything, completely content with pastoral advice that began and ended at “pray about it”, etc… as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.

(FWIW: I, too, have a high IQ, but high IQ is not an indicator of much of anything except what you are CAPABLE of learning… not how well you apply your intelligence or how much you have actually learned. It is given too much weight; I know many people with lower IQs than me that have worked harder and accomplished more than I have in the same amount of time.)

 

[ricmat]

Here’s my take on it.

Having a higher IQ in general leads to more education.

Having more education often leads to more Pride.

Having more Pride leads one away from God.

Being led away from God leads one to be less religious.

.

 

[abort73catholic]

Don’t forget that candidates for the priesthood have several years of intense tertiary study before Ordination.

Yes…my 12th grade theology teacher (and alumnus of my future college…Benedictine College ) is a priest and he’s one of the smartest people I know.

 

[Chiltepin]

I like Gardner’s concept of multiple intelliegences.

I’m with you there. IQ as a measure of intelligence is largely discredited in the pscyhological community today. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble who might be pretty happy with their score. I can’t chime in and say I have a high score. I never got tested, because I don’t care.

Whoever mentioned cultural bias is also correct.

Here’s my take on it.

Having a higher IQ in general leads to more education.

Having more education often leads to more Pride.

Having more Pride leads one away from God.

Being led away from God leads one to be less religious.

.

That is an amazingly perfect way of putting it.

I was going to say, so what? That is the beauty of religion, it requires only great faith, not great intellect. I would also agree with those who have said that Catholics who are learned in their faith are usually very intelligent in other areas.

 

[Magdalena09]

Having more education often leads to more Pride.
.

I think that might be a questionable theory. I know PLENTY of uneducated people who are more arrogant than anyone I’ve ever known. lol

 

[Chiltepin]

It’s nearly impossible to find a devout Catholic in an English or Sociology program, for example. Therefore, there’s a strong peer pressure to abandon religion in that environment.

I teach sociology!! In general I would agree with you about social scientists and social science programs. I have infultrated the ranks and occasionally chime in with some really “odd” perspectives about how Margaret Sanger is not a hero and, well the list could go on and on. Things I wouldn’t feel the need to slip in there if I knew my colleauges were not also speaking their minds and the students soak it up.

Students have lost a healthy sense of suspicion. I was always respectful toward my teachers but was sometimes suspicious, aware of their biases or disagreed. My students are sometimes outright disrespectful but seem to believe every word we say.

 

[ricmat]

I think that might be a questionable theory. I know PLENTY of uneducated people who are more arrogant than anyone I’ve ever known. lol

You know “PLENTY of uneducated people.” That’s amazing. Everybody I know has had some level of education.

.

 

[dakotagirl]

Kinda difficult to judge anyone’s actual level of pride without being God, but I see what Magdelena is saying. Pride is a very common failing and there are PLENTY of things which are occasions for it, only one of which is education.

 

[ricmat]

Kinda difficult to judge anyone’s actual level of pride without being God, but I see what Magdelena is saying. Pride is a very common failing and there are PLENTY of things which are occasions for it, only one of which is education.

Of course. Education is only one possible cause. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

.

 

[Magdalena09]

Okay, if we’re really going to nitpick I’ll rephrase:

I know PLENTY of people who have not been educated to the same degree that most others in their age group have been, either through public, private, or home schooling, and in some cases higher education. When compared to people in their age group who have achieved higher levels of education than they have, I would say that there are equal numbers of prideful people in each comparative group.

 

[Malia_Belen]

I have struggled with this in a personal way before, but not necessarily relating it specifically to IQ.

I think there are several factors that could contribute to the outcome of the study, most of which have already been mentioned in some capacity.

Anyone who has lived in a “bible belt” area of the US knows that there are many people that are JUST not that bright… that happen to be Christian… because just about everyone is Christian in the bible belt, whether they are practicing their faith or not… the whole once saved, always saved thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve received forwards with the most ridiculous misinformation about them forwarded to me by my protestant friends, or read status updates on social networking sites by them which shows a lack of interest in fact-checking or just plain crazy rumor-spreading. On the other hand, Catholics who are involved in and practicing their faith are usually simultaneously exploring and deepening it–which often involves reading or learning in some form or fashion.

I also think part of it is that once you have found God, and if you continue to place your trust in Him, you don’t have a burning desire to find out every last answer to every last question imaginable. Most of the extremely intelligent people I know who are not people of faith are caught up in trying to understand the logic of an ultimate being, a creator, where did it come from, why are there other planets, etc… I am content with not having all the answers, many people who aren’t religious are not content with not knowing with absolute certainty.

As for my personal struggle, before I became Catholic, I used to be so jealous of people who seemed to be able to just “turn off their brain” and be completely content with not questioning anything, completely content with pastoral advice that began and ended at “pray about it”, etc… as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.

(FWIW: I, too, have a high IQ, but high IQ is not an indicator of much of anything except what you are CAPABLE of learning… not how well you apply your intelligence or how much you have actually learned. It is given too much weight; I know many people with lower IQs than me that have worked harder and accomplished more than I have in the same amount of time.)

Maybe you didn’t mean to but I’m a little offended by your post that kind of suggests that most Protestants aren’t that smart.

One of the reasons that give me pause about being Catholic is the way many new Catholics get on here and say negative things about Protestants. I also dislike the fact it seems that many people consider the Catholic faith as Christianity for smart people (no pun intended) and that Protestants aren’t that smart. This post is about Christians and I.Q. and you have effectively given the impression that you think Catholics are smarter just because Protestants believe things that you may think are illogical personally I just think that shows their faith in God. It really really bothers me that many new catholics on here are saying negative things about Protestants. If I’m going to turn my back on Protestant heritage which has served me well and believe that I’m smarter and better than others because I’m Catholic…I’m not sure if Catholicism is the right place for me even if do past the test so to speak. I wasn’t aware that Catholicism was Mensa for Christians.

 

[Magdalena09]

Maybe you didn’t mean to but I’m a little offended by your post that kind of suggests that most Protestants aren’t that smart.

One of the reasons that give me pause about being Catholic is the way many new Catholics get on here and say negative things about Protestants. I also dislike the fact it seems that many people consider the Catholic faith as Christianity for smart people (no pun intended) and that Protestants aren’t that smart. This post is about Christians and I.Q. and you have effectively given the impression that you think Catholics are smarter just because Protestants believe things that you may think are illogical personally I just think that shows their faith in God. It really really bothers me that many new catholics on here are saying negative things about Protestants. If I’m going to turn my back on Protestant heritage which has served me well and believe that I’m smarter and better than others because I’m Catholic…I’m not sure if Catholicism is the right place for me even if do past the test so to speak. I wasn’t aware that Catholicism was Mensa for Christians.

Wow, I’m sorry, I believe what you’re doing is called projecting. I did not say any of the things you said I did soooo…?

I am only a new Catholic in that I came into the Church officially this past Easter, but I had been “Catholic at heart” for about 2 years before that. And to be honest, sometimes I had the same feelings as you do when I heard Catholics talking about their conversions from Protestantism… and sometimes I still do depending on the situation, because my family and most of my friends that I grew up with are ALL protestant.

In my personal experience, a lot of lights DID turn on when I started on my path to coming home. I do not mean for that to insult you or anyone else, but it is the truth. The Catholic faith, beliefs, and practices made more sense to me than anything else and helped me grow and understand so much about God, Jesus, and what it really means to live a Christian life. Through learning about Church history and different Saints I have been mentally immersed in history that I wouldn’t have otherwise and in cultures that I wouldn’t have otherwise. You say that protestantism has served you well, and in some ways it served me well too… it started my faith journey to where I am now, after all. But it wasn’t complete, and that’s why I am Catholic now… cause God called me home to the fullness of truth. And I won’t apologize for that or for my testimony that Protestantism didn’t cut it for me.

Everyone’s story and journey is different…and in fact did you know that St Faustina was said to be uneducated and look what she gave us.

Like I said at the end of my previous post… when it all comes down to it, IQ doesn’t mean much. Nor is it about meeting societal standards of learning. “God doesn’t call the qualified, He qualifies the called.”