IQ and Being Religious

[Faith1960]

I’m with you there. IQ as a measure of intelligence is largely discredited in the pscyhological community today. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble who might be pretty happy with their score. I can’t chime in and say I have a high score. I never got tested, because I don’t care.]

When my daughter was in elementary school, it was THE thing among the parents to have their kids tested to find out if they were “gifted,” or not. When one boy missed getting into the gifted program by justthismuch, his mother was so upset. Some of these parents were faithful church goers, so I wonder how they reacted if any of their children were eventually swayed by athiest professors later on, down the road? We’ve lost touch so I don’t know, but I’d say they’d be very disappointed.

 

[Malia_Belen]

Wow, I’m sorry, I believe what you’re doing is called projecting. I did not say any of the things you said I did soooo…?

I am only a new Catholic in that I came into the Church officially this past Easter, but I had been “Catholic at heart” for about 2 years before that. And to be honest, sometimes I had the same feelings as you do when I heard Catholics talking about their conversions from Protestantism… and sometimes I still do depending on the situation, because my family and most of my friends that I grew up with are ALL protestant.

In my personal experience, a lot of lights DID turn on when I started on my path to coming home. I do not mean for that to insult you or anyone else, but it is the truth. The Catholic faith, beliefs, and practices made more sense to me than anything else and helped me grow and understand so much about God, Jesus, and what it really means to live a Christian life. Through learning about Church history and different Saints I have been mentally immersed in history that I wouldn’t have otherwise and in cultures that I wouldn’t have otherwise. You say that protestantism has served you well, and in some ways it served me well too… it started my faith journey to where I am now, after all. But it wasn’t complete, and that’s why I am Catholic now… cause God called me home to the fullness of truth. And I won’t apologize for that or for my testimony that Protestantism didn’t cut it for me.

Everyone’s story and journey is different…and in fact did you know that St Faustina was said to be uneducated and look what she gave us.

Like I said at the end of my previous post… when it all comes down to it, IQ doesn’t mean much. Nor does meeting societal standards of learning. “God doesn’t call the qualified, He qualifies the called.”

Apologizing, projecting and telling me you felt the same way at first…nice …but any psychiatrist/psychologist knows that diagnosing requires that you actually meet me and know my background before you go making predictions.

I was going to sit here and copy and paste to show you just how only I have “projected” the disguised negativity you seem to feel in your post but you know what…I don’t feel like it and I believe that a lot of other people reading your post felt the same about it but I think this line sums up your sentiments…

**as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.
**

 

[Faith1960]

Maybe you didn’t mean to but I’m a little offended by your post that kind of suggests that most Protestants aren’t that smart.

One of the reasons that give me pause about being Catholic is the way many new Catholics get on here and say negative things about Protestants. I also dislike the fact it seems that many people consider the Catholic faith as Christianity for smart people (no pun intended) and that Protestants aren’t that smart. This post is about Christians and I.Q. and you have effectively given the impression that you think Catholics are smarter just because Protestants believe things that you may think are illogical personally I just think that shows their faith in God. It really really bothers me that many new catholics on here are saying negative things about Protestants. If I’m going to turn my back on Protestant heritage which has served me well and believe that I’m smarter and better than others because I’m Catholic…I’m not sure if Catholicism is the right place for me even if do past the test so to speak. I wasn’t aware that Catholicism was Mensa for Christians.

Please don’t feel that way. I have noticed some people on this board (not the person you replied to, but some people in general) do seem to have an air of superiority about them but don’t let it get to you. The same can be said in other forums where various non-Catholic faiths are in the majority.

 

[Magdalena09]

Apologizing, projecting and telling me you felt the same way at first…nice …but any psychiatrist/psychologist knows that diagnosing requires that you actually meet me and know my background before you go making predictions.

I was going to sit here and copy and paste to show you just how only I have “projected” the disguised negativity you seem to feel in your post but you know what…I don’t feel like it and I believe that a lot of other people reading your post felt the same about it but I think this line sums up your sentiments…

**as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.
**

I didn’t try to diagnose you, I shared my personal experience with you. Again, you are projecting. I didn’t apologize TO you, I said I was sorry that you are projecting.

There are over 30,000 denominations of protestantism. I was involved in only 6 different denominations before I was a Catholic. So, like I said before (I feel like I keep repeating myself here) everyone has a different story and journey. Yours may be different. You needn’t take offense at me sharing my own personal experience.

 

[Malia_Belen]

I didn’t try to diagnose you, I shared my personal experience with you. Again, you are projecting.

** I didn’t apologize TO you, I said I was sorry that you are projecting.** I’ll give you this one because of the ambiguity of the sentence…I’ll even believe that yes you are sharing your personal experience but the negative beliefs about Protestant (a) denomionation(s) is still there.

your words I didn’t try to diagnose you, I shared my personal experience with you.
your words again Again, you are projecting. sounds like diagnosing to me the last time I checked a dictionary.

your words or personal experience as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.

While this statement may go over well in a Catholic forum…I’m pretty positive that the majority of Protestants would take issue with this statement alone…I guess they’d be projecting too, huh?

 

[Malia_Belen]

Please don’t feel that way. I have noticed some people on this board (not the person you replied to, but some people in general) do seem to have an air of superiority about them but don’t let it get to you. The same can be said in other forums where various non-Catholic faiths are in the majority.

I’m trying not too but I keep running in to this “Catholics are smarter” attitude. It kind of bugs me that I’d be entering into a faith where a lot of people would believe Protestants (of which many of my family are) are less smart because they choose to have faith in something that science doesn’t support at the moment like God just would never or could never do it that way.

 

[Faith1960]

I’m trying not too but I keep running in to this “Catholics are smarter” attitude. It kind of bugs me that I’d be entering into a faith where a lot of people would believe Protestants (of which many of my family are) are less smart because they choose to have faith in something that science doesn’t support at the moment like God just would never or could never do it that way.

I can’t speak for anyone here, but for me, when I think of unintelligent believers, the whole sweaty, red-faced, hellfire and brimstone screaming Protestant preachers who threaten their congregations with a permanent vacation in the flames if they don’t believe such and such, (even when their statements fly in the face of science or common sense) – and those who hang onto every one of their words – come to mind.
I don’t view all Protestants that way and I don’t think anyone here does, either.
My husband grew up on one of those Baptist churches and he’s a very intelligent guy…he refuses to become a member of any particular faith though. I think he was skeered off of religion after years of being screeched at.

 

[Malia_Belen]

I can’t speak for anyone here, but for me, when I think of unintelligent believers, the whole sweaty, red-faced, hellfire and brimstone screaming Protestant preachers who threaten their congregations with a permanent vacation in the flames if they don’t believe such and such, (even when their statements fly in the face of science or common sense) – and those who hang onto every one of their words – come to mind.
I don’t view all Protestants that way and I don’t think anyone here does, either.
My husband grew up on one of those Baptist churches and he’s a very intelligent guy…he refuses to become a member of any particular faith though. I think he was skeered off of religion after years of being screeched at.

lol, I agree that those preachers are pretty scary…I don’t think they are unintelligent…I just think that they think they know the truth and it is their obligation to tell the world so that they will be saved. The problem here is everyone has a different interpretation…so to outsiders looking in…it’s no telling what they are thinking about Protestants.

To be honest before I came to this forum, I was a believer in intelligent design but I’m also a believer in God can do anything. So when I saw how many Catholics viewed Protestants and their view on creationism. I started believing more in what I believed when I was younger that God created the world in seven days. That’s why I don’t have a problem with the two beliefs…I have faith that God can do it any which way he wants…I just don’t enjoy the many opinions here that this is just one of the ways that many Protestants are not as smart.

 

[Magdalena09]

Malia Belen:

I didn’t try to diagnose you, I shared my personal experience with you. Again, you are projecting.

** I didn’t apologize TO you, I said I was sorry that you are projecting.** I’ll give you this one because of the ambiguity of the sentence…I’ll even believe that yes you are sharing your personal experience but the negative beliefs about Protestant (a) denomionation(s) is still there.

your words I didn’t try to diagnose you, I shared my personal experience with you.
your words again Again, you are projecting. sounds like diagnosing to me the last time I checked a dictionary.

your words or personal experience as a Catholic, I don’t feel like I’ve had to turn my brain off, as in our faith, it is not preached that faith and reason are at odds with each other.

While this statement may go over well in a Catholic forum…I’m pretty positive that the majority of Protestants would take issue with this statement alone…I guess they’d be projecting too, huh?

Projecting is an action not a sickness; therefore not a diagnosis.

And yes, I do have some “negative” views of protestantism, not negative as in anger but just negative as in they weren’t right for me and some of the stuff I learned was contrary to the truth of the Catholic faith.

Protestantism by it’s very nature would OF COURSE take issue with my statement, along with a lot of other things some protestants would take issue with in the Catholic faith. They would only be projecting if they suggested I said/did/thought things I didn’t.
Malia Belen:

I’m trying not too but I keep running in to this “Catholics are smarter” attitude. It kind of bugs me that I’d be entering into a faith where a lot of people would believe Protestants (of which many of my family are) are less smart because they choose to have faith in something that science doesn’t support at the moment like God just would never or could never do it that way.

This isn’t what people believe. I did not get smarter when I became Catholic nor do I think you will find anyone who thinks they became smarter when they converted either. No one got smarter, we were simply led to the fullness of truth when God called us home. It doesn’t make us smarter because it isn’t to our merit at all… all the glory is God’s and it was a gift that He gave.

ETA: Perhaps projection isn’t the right terminology… I can’t think of the appropriate terminology for it but it seems that you feel that I am saying or implying things which I never actually said or implied, but it seems you have experienced it with other people and are thus taking those experiences and projecting them/placing them into this situation.

 

[Podo2005]

Earlier today I read some of the thread about college turning kids atheists, which led me to do a few Google searches. I found an article which is about a year or 2 old, stating that studies show the higer one’s IQ, the less likely they are to be religious. It kind of upset me to read that, since I’m Catholic and am not an intellectual. What do you make of this?

Didn’t St Paul say something about knowledge inflating with Pride? (i.e. the worst sin of all… ex: I don’t need God)

So could it be that since you’re an intellectual ( & young too) you think you don’t need to know God and therefore think you could set up on your own? I know from experience (being a student going to college) that one needs to humble ones self if you are to go into higher branches of knowledge…

Pray for those who go to college, its hard when you’re surrounded by atheists/secularists who think they know it all

Your brother in Christ,
Zachary

 

[Faith1960]

Didn’t St Paul say something about knowledge inflating with Pride? (i.e. the worst sin of all… ex: I don’t need God)

So could it be that since you’re an intellectual ( & young too) you think you don’t need to know God and therefore think you could set up on your own? I know from experience (being a student going to college) that one needs to humble ones self if you are to go into higher branches of knowledge…

Pray for those who go to college, its hard when you’re surrounded by atheists/secularists who think they know it all

Your brother in Christ,
Zachary

I know that when I was youngER (I’m 49 now,) I, too, was full of myself. I thought I had God, religion, life etc. all figured out. I thought I didn’t need God and, vacillated between being agnostic, to atheist, to searching for faith. Round and round I went. If only I had half the knowledge I THOUGHT I had.

 

[Magdalena09]

lol, I agree that those preachers are pretty scary…I don’t think they are unintelligent…I just think that they think they know the truth and it is their obligation to tell the world so that they will be saved. The problem here is everyone has a different interpretation…so to outsiders looking in…it’s no telling what they are thinking about Protestants.

To be honest before I came to this forum, I was a believer in intelligent design but I’m also a believer in God can do anything. So when I saw how many Catholics viewed Protestants and their view on creationism. I started believing more in what I believed when I was younger that God created the world in seven days. That’s why I don’t have a problem with the two beliefs…I have faith that God can do it any which way he wants…I just don’t enjoy the many opinions here that this is just one of the ways that many Protestants are not as smart.

I think perhaps the entire topic of evolution/creation/ID debate is banned on the forum but I’m not positive. I think it is in the apologetics sections. I will say this much and hope I do not get penalized: Catholics are allowed to believe in evolution but are not required to and many Catholics have different opinions on the topic.

 

[Magdalena09]

I know that when I was youngER (I’m 49 now,) I, too, was full of myself. I thought I had God, religion, life etc. all figured out. I thought I didn’t need God and, vacillated between being agnostic, to atheist, to searching for faith. Round and round I went. If only I had half the knowledge I THOUGHT I had.

There is some quote or parable type thing that explains this, I wish I could remember it. Something like, when I was a child I thought I knew everything, then I became a young man and realized how little I knew as a child… umm actually I can’t remember but it basically says that at each age of life we are amazed at how much we thought we knew 5 years before or 10 years before, etc, all the way until death. Hehe.

 

[Malia_Belen]

Projecting is an action not a sickness; therefore not a diagnosis.

And yes, I do have some “negative” views of protestantism, not negative as in anger but just negative as in they weren’t right for me and some of the stuff I learned was contrary to the truth of the Catholic faith.

Protestantism by it’s very nature would OF COURSE take issue with my statement, along with a lot of other things some protestants would take issue with in the Catholic faith. They would only be projecting if they suggested I said/did/thought things I didn’t.

This isn’t what people believe. I did not get smarter when I became Catholic nor do I think you will find anyone who thinks they became smarter when they converted either. No one got smarter, we were simply led to the fullness of truth when God called us home. It doesn’t make us smarter because it isn’t to our merit at all… all the glory is God’s and it was a gift that He gave.

-Diagnosis aren’t only used for sicknesses…a dictionary will tell you this…
-the word projecting isn’t used by the average person…so one can reasonably think that you’ve had some experience with where the word is used and the people who generally use the word…I think you are aware of this.

I don’t know where you got the idea that being Catholic makes you smarter…maybe you are “projecting”?..'cause I never said that or implied it…I did say/imply that some Catholics think Protestants aren’t as smart…the default being that Catholics are smarter…not the Catholic made them smarter.

And that was all that I was saying in the first place was I was offended by your negativity on the intellect of Protestants unnamed as they may be 'cause you have no way of knowing how smart someone is.

 

[Faith1960]

I think perhaps the entire topic of evolution/creation/ID debate is banned on the forum but I’m not positive. I think it is in the apologetics sections. I will say this much and hope I do not get penalized: Catholics are allowed to believe in evolution but are not required to and many Catholics have different opinions on the topic.

I spoke to my priest about my belief that evolution is probably true. He told me that it’s ok for a Catholic to believe in evolution, as many of my fellow parishioners do, as long as we know that at one point God breathed a soul into us humans. That’s good enough for me.

 

[Faith1960]

There is some quote or parable type thing that explains this, I wish I could remember it. Something like, when I was a child I thought I knew everything, then I became a young man and realized how little I knew as a child… umm actually I can’t remember but it basically says that at each age of life we are amazed at how much we thought we knew 5 years before or 10 years before, etc, all the way until death. Hehe.

I kind of remember that, too. I think it’s funny, and funnier still, is how the definition of “old” is always older than I am on any given year.

 

[Magdalena09]

Malia Belen:

I don’t know where you got the idea that being Catholic makes you smarter.

Wow, really?
Malia Belen:

I’m trying not too but I keep running in to this “Catholics are smarter” attitude.

I’m done here.

 

[CountrySinger]

There is some quote or parable type thing that explains this, I wish I could remember it. Something like, when I was a child I thought I knew everything, then I became a young man and realized how little I knew as a child… umm actually I can’t remember but it basically says that at each age of life we are amazed at how much we thought we knew 5 years before or 10 years before, etc, all the way until death. Hehe.

Like the Montgomery Gentry song “Back When I knew It All”?

 

[Malia_Belen]

I’m trying not too but I keep running in to this “Catholics are smarter” attitude.

Exactly I said “Catholics are smarter” attitude. Never said anything about the Catholic church making them smarter or that Catholics were smarter especially since I don’t believe that Catholics in general are any smarter than Protestants so why would I suggest the Catholic Church makes you any smarter. Thank you and have a nice day. I’m on to do other things.

 

[Chiltepin]

I know from experience (being a student going to college) that one needs to humble ones self if you are to go into higher branches of knowledge…

Pray for those who go to college, its hard when you’re surrounded by atheists/secularists who think they know it all

Your brother in Christ,
Zachary

Good point Zachary. I am a little less than a year out of grad school and I remember that pretty well. I guess my experience was that the professors were the atheists/secularists who think they know it all and the student body soaks it up. Many who are weak in their faith unquestioningly fall (pray for their return).

I was fortunate, however, to go to school at Texas A&M. The Faculty might be preaching their agenda, but the student body has many people of strong Christian faith. In the college setting I felt greatful to be around so many intelligent Christians (all types.) I think that seeing what the professors were doing to so many students, leading them away from God and leading them to believe the rest of us were such fools really brought us together.

Besides the occasional person who would tell you that the Pope was the devil and Catholics are going to hell, we got along much better than this thread seems to be demonstrating.

Let’s all just take a deep breath! It really isn’t worth it to get so riled up over something someone says to you or about you on the internet. People I actually know have said so much worse to my face!