Iran girl gets 100 lashes for sex

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Tom of Assisi:
Well. It sounds like she got a good spanking. What’s the problemo? Were they supposed to give her a medal or something?
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OMG i am so shocked and disgusted! no they werent supposed to give her a medal but they werent supposed to BEAT her for it. God forbid you are married or have daughters!!!
 
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jdnation:
Well the Bible teaches us to beat our children, but not without good reason. So we’d have to be careful about just quoting Scripture. I’m not trying to make a case for Islam here, but simply want to know the facts between what the Islamic governments do and what the religion teaches. After all, say America is a Christian country, but that doesn’t mean the government is a Christian one. For example some of you may have come across a list like this:

"Following are some rights, which Islam was first to give women and Muslim women have!
1. The RIGHT and duty to acquire education.

2. The RIGHT to have her own independent property.

3. The RIGHT to work [job or business] to earn money, which she keeps it.

4. The RIGHT to equal reward for equal deed and/or work.

5. The RIGHT to express her opinion.

6. The RIGHT to argue and/or advocate her cause or opinion to be heard.

7. The RIGHT to vote since 1,421 years.

8. The RIGHT to provisions from her husband for all her needs and more.

9. The RIGHT to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.

10.The RIGHT to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply don’t like him. In Islaam divorce is suppose to be last resort.

11.The RIGHT to keep all her own money. [She is not responsible for maintenance of family].

12.The RIGHT to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.

13.The RIGHT to get custody of her children in case of divorce [unless she is unable to raise them for valid reasons]

14.The RIGHT to choose husband of her choice.

15.The RIGHT to refuse a proposed and/or arranged marriage.

16. The RIGHT to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

Islamic laws does not requires that women should confine themselves to household duties.

Muslim women have [and are as well] headed Islamic provinces [and states as well], like Arwa bint Ahmad, who served as governor of Yemen under the Fatimid Khalifahs in the late fifth and early sixth century."

So is this something that mainstream Islam has promoted? As gilliam pointed out, the Sharia law is not accepted by the majority and seems to be based on a fundaliteralist Koran reading.
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i went to school with an islamic woman, she told me about the role women play in islamic faith. its sick. her husand constantly kept tabs on her. she could never go out even for a study group. she wasnt allowed to work and had to get her husband and fathers permission to go to school, her husbands car had broken down and she asked me to give her a ride home, when we got to her street she asked me to cover my hair, because her husband would be angry if she was with what he called “an american she-devil” once i asked her if her husband was just old school and backwards minded and she asked me if i had ever seen the movie “not without my daughter” i said yes and she said that that film wasnt the propoganda that most muslims and islamics wanted you to believe, that women were beaten and honor killings were still a fear women had to deal with. its a backwards society and something needs to be done about it. God help the man who ever put his hands on me. my mama raised me right, and my husband treats me with love and dignity and respect that EVERY man owes his wife.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
In case you hadn’t heard, women are not on the same legal playing field as men. Plus, it takes 3 or 4 witnesses to estabish guilt. Since it was her word against theirs, she is guilty.
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There does appear to be a bias against women in the Islamic countries. Though the issue of witnesses isn’t unusual and usually sound, as the Old Testament law declares that one may be condemned only on the testimony of 2 or more witnesses. Of course if the men bore false witness against her then the court wouldn’t know and it’ll be left up to God to deliver justice on the true guilty party. IF supposing she was the one bearing false witness on the other hand, then the fact that she got more lashes is because she committed two sins.

But as MaggieOH said, how many men would admit they’re guilty, and the position is favorable to them. So since we really can’t know, and there are perhaps no other witnesses it’s quite a dilemma. Though then, if there were no others then how come they were all caught? The woman herself, were she raped, might have gone forward, but we also know in many cases most victims of rape do not out of fear.

Since the story is not detailed, if the men lied then we can only count on God to administer divine punishment. But this would be quite different from automatically assuming this particular court and judge were biased and offhand dismissed her claim. It’s quite a predicament.

This reminds me of a biblical story about two men who tried to get a woman to have sex with them. When she refused they accused her of committing adultery with another. But then a prophet (Daniel?) challenged them and asked them seperately under whcih tree they had seen her? When they gave different answers he knew they were lying and they were punished. Can’t remember which book this was in. But I bet if the Muslims read the Bible this would’ve taught them something about cross-examining the witnesses. 😃
 
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jdnation:
Well the Bible teaches us to beat our children, but not without good reason. So we’d have to be careful about just quoting Scripture. I’m not trying to make a case for Islam here, but simply want to know the facts between what the Islamic governments do and what the religion teaches. After all, say America is a Christian country, but that doesn’t mean the government is a Christian one. For example some of you may have come across a list like this:

"Following are some rights, which Islam was first to give women and Muslim women have!
1. The RIGHT and duty to acquire education.

2. The RIGHT to have her own independent property.

3. The RIGHT to work [job or business] to earn money, which she keeps it.

4. The RIGHT to equal reward for equal deed and/or work.

5. The RIGHT to express her opinion.

6. The RIGHT to argue and/or advocate her cause or opinion to be heard.

7. The RIGHT to vote since 1,421 years.

8. The RIGHT to provisions from her husband for all her needs and more.

9. The RIGHT to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.

10.The RIGHT to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply don’t like him. In Islaam divorce is suppose to be last resort.

11.The RIGHT to keep all her own money. [She is not responsible for maintenance of family].

12.The RIGHT to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.

13.The RIGHT to get custody of her children in case of divorce [unless she is unable to raise them for valid reasons]

14.The RIGHT to choose husband of her choice.

15.The RIGHT to refuse a proposed and/or arranged marriage.

16. The RIGHT to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

Islamic laws does not requires that women should confine themselves to household duties.

Muslim women have [and are as well] headed Islamic provinces [and states as well], like Arwa bint Ahmad, who served as governor of Yemen under the Fatimid Khalifahs in the late fifth and early sixth century."

So is this something that mainstream Islam has promoted? As gilliam pointed out, the Sharia law is not accepted by the majority and seems to be based on a fundaliteralist Koran reading.
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Well, it may be debatable whether Islam was the first to give women these rights. The one immutable fact that’s not mentioned is the right for a man to have up to four wives. That is de facto inequality and no amount of other rights will make up for the fact that a man does not have to love and honor her to the exclusion of all others.
 
Originally Posted by Tom of Assisi
Well. It sounds like she got a good spanking. What’s the problemo? Were they supposed to give her a medal or something?
And Tar Ashley wrote :OMG i am so shocked and disgusted! no they werent supposed to give her a medal but they werent supposed to BEAT her for it. God forbid you are married or have daughters!!!
Have you ever thought that if in the U.S. we had public caning or thrashings for people who had illicite sex we might cut down on the Abortion rate. From what I read it seems in the U.S. illicite sex is as common as going to a movie. 39 swats with a 1 inch cane pole ought to be about right ( on the court house lawn)
 
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Exporter:
Originally Posted by Tom of Assisi
Well. It sounds like she got a good spanking. What’s the problemo? Were they supposed to give her a medal or something?
And Tar Ashley wrote :OMG i am so shocked and disgusted! no they werent supposed to give her a medal but they werent supposed to BEAT her for it. God forbid you are married or have daughters!!!
Have you ever thought that if in the U.S. we had public caning or thrashings for people who had illicite sex we might cut down on the Abortion rate. From what I read it seems in the U.S. ilicite sex is as common as going to a movie. 39 swats with a 1 inch cane pole ought to be about right ( on the court house lawn)
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Wow!! That’s worse than wearing a scarlet letter. I guess my circle of friends has a very different outlook on the world because that is the first time I have heard somebody seriously suggest public caning as a new law.

I will pray for you tonight.
 
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bapcathluth:
Wow!! That’s worse than wearing a scarlet letter. I guess my circle of friends has a very different outlook on the world because that is the first time I have heard somebody seriously suggest public caning as a new law.

I will pray for you tonight.
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About 15 years ago my City Councilor made the serious suggestion that we reinstitute stocks back into the Boston Common and a public whipping post for floggings. I totally agree with this idea, and others supported his suggestion, but it was vetoed by the mayor.

But like the death penalty, it would be managed by an inept and broken American legal system which cannot accurately determine guilt from innocence, and we could easily sentence an innocent man to either the death sentence or a public flogging.

Massachusetts does have the second highest rate of wrongful convictions, where several victims have spent over 20 years in prison for a crime they had nothing to do with, which is why I always vote against the death sentence, and I while I agree with public floggings and stocks, I don’t trust the legal system to manage them properly.
 
Tom of Assisi:
Well. It sounds like she got a good spanking. What’s the problemo? Were they supposed to give her a medal or something?
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I must be having a nightmare. I refuse to believe that on a Catholic message board, someone actually suggested torturing a young woman for being raped?!?

That is just sick!
 
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Exporter:
Have you ever thought that if in the U.S. we had public caning or thrashings for people who had illicite sex we might cut down on the Abortion rate. From what I read it seems in the U.S. illicite sex is as common as going to a movie. 39 swats with a 1 inch cane pole ought to be about right ( on the court house lawn)
Click to expand...
Excuse me, if I somehow missed sarcasm in your answer, but aren’t you in a faith redeemed by the Go-Sin-No-More and the Turn-The-Other-Cheek Fella? There sure seems to be a lot of the New Testament you missed.

Hey, Coach, what did you do to your football players when they consistently ran bad plays, hit them? Ran them 'til they barfed? I wouldn’t be surprised.

John
 
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Exporter:
Have you ever thought that if in the U.S. we had public caning or thrashings for people who had illicite sex we might cut down on the Abortion rate. From what I read it seems in the U.S. illicite sex is as common as going to a movie. 39 swats with a 1 inch cane pole ought to be about right ( on the court house lawn)
Click to expand...
Hmmmm…let’s carry that idea out to its fullest projection: since we have 10 commandments not just one or two— what would you recommend for blasphemers? For those who don’t attend church worship? What do we do with those who swear? Who covet their neighbor’s goods?

And then we have the great Two: If someone judges that you don’t love the God of your faith first and foremost - what do we do with them? What about loving ones neighbor as oneself – what and how do we penalize these “sinners”?
 
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HagiaSophia:
Hmmmm…let’s carry that idea out to its fullest projection: since we have 10 commandments not just one or two— what would you recommend for blasphemers? For those who don’t attend church worship? What do we do with those who swear? Who covet their neighbor’s goods?

And then we have the great Two: If someone judges that you don’t love the God of your faith first and foremost - what do we do with them? What about loving ones neighbor as oneself – what and how do we penalize these “sinners”?
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As I was saying before …

If the U.S. legal system was infallible, I would be 100% behind the death penalty. The U.S. legal system is a broken system, a veritable mess.

So when it comes to canon law, who is going to make the infallible interpretation (outside of God himself)? How are the Ten Commandments to be 100% perfectly interpreted?

I was brought up to obey the Ten Commandments and that it was a mortal unforgiveable sin to break any of them; seems things have changed?

So adultery is forgiveable nowadays huh? It was a stoning offense for a millenium, now its O.K.?

Gee Whiz, Instead of saying NO, I could have had a good time with all those beautiful married women cheating on their out-of-town husbands in those Boston bars I frequent, asking me to spend the night with them, and I would have been forgiven!!??

Somehow I do not agree with that. Adultery is an unforgiveable sin (unless God himself forgives it). The Ten Commandments was taught to me to be unconditionally obeyed, no variation at all. And that includes having a good time with another man’s wife (or husband as the case may be).
 
Kevin Walker:
I was brought up to obey the Ten Commandments and that it was a mortal unforgiveable sin to break any of them; seems things have changed?
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Mortal sin to lie? Mortal sin to covet? You were taught wrong. And as far as an unforgivable sin, the only one I’'ve heard referenced is blasphemy against the Holy Sprit.

John
 
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Lurch104:
I must be having a nightmare. I refuse to believe that on a Catholic message board, someone actually suggested torturing a young woman for being raped?!?

That is just sick!
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I’m sorry? have I missed something here? I thought the courts had found that she had consentual sex, not raped, or is it that one can be justifyably outraged as long as one assumes she was raped? and that the courts must have got it wrong because she said so?

It’s not a million years ago that the Christian (that was the Catholic Church of the time) condemned anyone to death for sex outside marriage. In some countries the death penalty is still a common form of punishment. One poster has pointed out that their state has the highest rate of miscarriages of justice in the America, couple that with the death penalty and I would suggest you have a far more worrying situation than a flogging in Iran. In Europe we still frequently (or at least more frequently than we should) get it wrong. The major difference is we don’t hang them, gas them, electrocute them or inject them with some deadly poison. Oh, and if their shown to have a mental disability, like “retarded” we tend to put them in hospital, not death cells.
As “good” catholics I would suggest putting our own house in order before criticising someone elses.
 

So adultery is forgiveable nowadays huh? It was a stoning offense for a millenium, now its O.K.?​

Get out of the dark ages. Who the hell said it’s okay???
What’s not okay is having a Taliban mentality. Apparently, some folks on this message board are sick pups and want to go back to the days where hands were chopped off for stealing etc. Maybe those sick pups would be happier in Saudi Arabia they could witness a couple of beheadings and feel righteous about themselves.
 
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Norwich:
I thought the courts had found that she had consentual sex, not raped, or is it that one can be justifyably outraged as long as one assumes she was raped? and that the courts must have got it wrong because she said so?
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Yeah, I sure do believe those Iranian courts! Not only do they blame the woman, but you agree with them. Fine.

John
 
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TarAshly:
OMG i am so shocked and disgusted! no they werent supposed to give her a medal but they werent supposed to BEAT her for it. God forbid you are married or have daughters!!!
Click to expand...
Well…I’m sorry. I’ll fed-ex her some roses for her trouble.
 
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TarAshly:
i went to school with an islamic woman, she told me about the role women play in islamic faith. its sick. her husand constantly kept tabs on her. she could never go out even for a study group. she wasnt allowed to work and had to get her husband and fathers permission to go to school, her husbands car had broken down and she asked me to give her a ride home, when we got to her street she asked me to cover my hair, because her husband would be angry if she was with what he called “an american she-devil” once i asked her if her husband was just old school and backwards minded and she asked me if i had ever seen the movie “not without my daughter” i said yes and she said that that film wasnt the propoganda that most muslims and islamics wanted you to believe, that women were beaten and honor killings were still a fear women had to deal with. its a backwards society and something needs to be done about it. God help the man who ever put his hands on me. my mama raised me right, and my husband treats me with love and dignity and respect that EVERY man owes his wife.
Click to expand...
I had several undergraduate classes with a woman who practiced her faith as a Muslim. Her head was always veiled, though not her face, and her arms and legs were always covered. Another young American woman once asked her why she allowed men to oppress her, requiring her to veil herself, etc.

The Muslim woman looked at the young American woman who was wearing rather short shorts, a shirt that never covered her stomach, and one that barely covered her chest, and the Muslim woman said, “It looks like you’re the one who is oppressed.”

I thought that was an interesting commentary.

Fiat
 
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TarAshly:
i went to school with an islamic woman, she told me about the role women play in islamic faith. its sick. her husand constantly kept tabs on her. she could never go out even for a study group. she wasnt allowed to work and had to get her husband and fathers permission to go to school, her husbands car had broken down and she asked me to give her a ride home, when we got to her street she asked me to cover my hair, because her husband would be angry if she was with what he called “an american she-devil” once i asked her if her husband was just old school and backwards minded and she asked me if i had ever seen the movie “not without my daughter” i said yes and she said that that film wasnt the propoganda that most muslims and islamics wanted you to believe, that women were beaten and honor killings were still a fear women had to deal with. its a backwards society and something needs to be done about it. God help the man who ever put his hands on me. my mama raised me right, and my husband treats me with love and dignity and respect that EVERY man owes his wife.
Click to expand...
I had several undergraduate classes with a woman who practiced her faith as a Muslim. Her head was always veiled, though not her face, and her arms and legs were always covered. Another young American woman once asked her why she allowed men to oppress her, requiring her to veil herself, etc.

The Muslim woman looked at the young American woman who was wearing rather short shorts, a shirt that never covered her stomach, and one that barely covered her chest, and the Muslim woman said, “It looks like you’re the one who is oppressed.”

I thought that was an interesting commentary.

Fiat
 
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