Iran threatens Israel

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The ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN has threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the map ! This threat was made by the President of this Islamic theocracy. Now the whole world can see what kind of barbarians Israel has to contend with. Why she has good reason to have a Doomsday System .
 
You could you perhaps post a link to some news article that shows this (your statement).

Thank you
 
***Iran softens stand on Israel ***

*Atul Aneja *

*DUBAI: Within days of issuing its controversial call for having Israel “wiped off the map,” Iran has softened its stance, saying that it had no intention to attack its long-time adversary. *“The Islamic Republic of Iran is committed to its U.N. charter commitments. It has never used force against a second country or threatened the use of force,” the Iranian Foreign Ministry said.

hindu.com/2005/10/30/stories/2005103004941400.htm
 
There isnt a true, believing muslim in the world who is happy with the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is land that was taken from the Palestinians in 1947, Israel did not exist before. Its been almost 60 years, 3 generations, of oppression and persecution. The majority of Palestians now live outside in neighboring countries because they were driven out of their homes by the Israelis.

There are born again christians who support israel since they believe when jesus comes back that the jews there will become christians. Im not aware of catholicism holding such views.

I dont support suicide bombings or killings of israeli civilians, i dont support terrorist methods of dealing with the situation. But if ever the Muslims had the ability and the proper means to fight the Israeli army, this would definately be a cause Muslims should support and aid. Unfortunately however, Muslims today dont have that ability or means, and still need to do alot to fix their ownselves and unite upon the truth to hope for victory against their aggressors.
 
Hashi Al-Eritre:
There isnt a true, believing muslim in the world who is happy with the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is land that was taken from the Palestinians in 1947, Israel did not exist before. Its been almost 60 years, 3 generations, of oppression and persecution. The majority of Palestians now live outside in neighboring countries because they were driven out of their homes by the Israelis.

There are born again christians who support israel since they believe when jesus comes back that the jews there will become christians. Im not aware of catholicism holding such views.

I dont support suicide bombings or killings of israeli civilians, i dont support terrorist methods of dealing with the situation. But if ever the Muslims had the ability and the proper means to fight the Israeli army, this would definately be a cause Muslims should support and aid. Unfortunately however, Muslims today dont have that ability or means, and still need to do alot to fix their ownselves and unite upon the truth to hope for victory against their aggressors.
God gave Israel it’s promised land in 1948. I understand the fact that Islam feels that the Bible is not a true book of scripture. So my question is why would God allow this to happen in your opinion? Why is Israel a State at all? I do not think for one minute that Israel is perfect and does no wrong. But the fact that it became a State in 1948 and is supported by the most powerful country in the history of the world seems like alot to call mere chance. Would you agree? What does Islam say about the promise from God in the scripture below.

Thus said the Lord God: …you, O mountains of Israel, shall yield your produce and bear your fruit for My people Israel, for their return is near. For I will care for you: I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. I will settle a large population on you, the whole House of Israel; the towns shall be resettled, and the ruined sites rebuilt. I will multiply men and beasts upon you, and they shall increase and be fertile, and I will resettle you as you were formerly, and will make you more prosperous than you were at first. And you shall know that I am the Lord. I will lead… My people Israel to you, and they shall possess you. You shall be their heritage, and you shall not again cause them to be bereaved. (Ezek. 36:8-12)
 
Hashi Al-Eritre:
There isnt a true, believing muslim in the world who is happy with the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is land that was taken from the Palestinians in 1947, Israel did not exist before. Its been almost 60 years, 3 generations, of oppression and persecution. The majority of Palestians now live outside in neighboring countries because they were driven out of their homes by the Israelis.
I normally hold back when it come to discuss political issues. Perhaps because it’s too complicated with no real right and wrong. And perhaps because of lack of knowledge.

Just curious. Whose land is the present area covered by the modern Israel, palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Gaza?

Israel says it’s the promise land given to them by God.
But before they occupied it, there were people living there already. And it has changing hands many times since then. Egyptians, Greeks/Macedonians, Persians, Romans, Arabs, Turks, etc. So whose land it is? Since which year the occupants became legal? 2000BC? 857 BC? 700AD? 1920? 1947?
There are born again christians who support israel since they believe when jesus comes back that the jews there will become christians. Im not aware of catholicism holding such views.
Jesus will come back as judge and King at the end of the world to judge the livings and the deads. It will be His judgement that determines whether one will go to heaven or to hell.
I dont support suicide bombings or killings of israeli civilians, i dont support terrorist methods of dealing with the situation. But if ever the Muslims had the ability and the proper means to fight the Israeli army, this would definately be a cause Muslims should support and aid. Unfortunately however, Muslims today dont have that ability or means, and still need to do alot to fix their ownselves and unite upon the truth to hope for victory against their aggressors.
I believe many Muslims are not extremists. Their hearts bleed to see their fellow brethrens suffer under occupation.

Christians too are saddened when they see innocent 16year old girls being beheaded for no crime of their own.

The situation in Israel is war.
The situation in Indonesia too is war, though maybe of different kind.

Why do these happen?
 
The promised land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendents. Later, the Israelites did occupy the land, eventually becoming a kingdom. This history is recounted in the Old Testament.

Israel as a nation was destroyed by the Roman Empire in 70 AD.

I have no expertise in the reasons for Israel being re-established as a State in 1914, but I think it’s probably unwise to make what was essentially a geopolitical event, into a theological event.
 
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JimG:
The promised land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendents. Later, the Israelites did occupy the land, eventually becoming a kingdom. This history is recounted in the Old Testament.

Israel as a nation was destroyed by the Roman Empire in 70 AD.

I have no expertise in the reasons for Israel being re-established as a State in 1914, but I think it’s probably unwise to make what was essentially a geopolitical event, into a theological event.
Yes, I thought so. But it’s good conversation topic while sitting on the sidewalk.

No disrespect meant. For people invlolved and displaced, it’s definitely not sidewalk cafe topic.

My prayer to them all and may the peace of Christ be with them. Peace that the world cannot give.
 
In 1948 ,16 muslim countries declared war on Israel .If you look at a map after the truce that ended the 48 war Israel is bordered by Syria,Jordan and Egypt .There is no Palestine.
The refugees created by the war instead of being repatriated into Arab countries, were kept in refugee camps to use as a weapon against Israel .They were kept in squalor by their Arab brothers for political reasons.
 
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JOHNYJ:
In 1948 ,16 muslim countries declared war on Israel .If you look at a map after the truce that ended the 48 war Israel is bordered by Syria,Jordan and Egypt .There is no Palestine.
The refugees created by the war instead of being repatriated into Arab countries, were kept in refugee camps to use as a weapon against Israel .They were kept in squalor by their Arab brothers for political reasons.
Interesting stuff,

I have often wondered why the arab nations who are so concerned about the plite of the poor people of palestine wont carve off a piece of land for these people out of Islamic charity.

-D
 
There is not now, and has never been a “Palestinian state”. The people that you see in the Gaza Strip (so-called Palestine) are the descendents of Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians. It is not Israel’s fault that neither of these three HUGE countries (in comparison to Israel) would assimilate their OWN populations back into their lands. The Jews have lived in Israel since ancient times, long before Islam even existed. You keep on blaming Israel for misplacing these so-called Palestinians, when in reality they are not Palestinian citizens (since there has never ever been a Palestinian state) and keep forgetting it is your own people that have ignored these people forever. When there are so many oil rich Arabic & Islamic nations, why are these people you seem to care about still living in these conditions? You say it is the conditions they live in which cause them to become suicide bombers, but your governments don’t help them? The real reason is because all of the PLO leaders have been grossly corrupt, scandalous people. Arafat laundered BILLIONS of aid dollars marked for Palestinian people, and the Arabic/Islamic countries did not do a check and balance against him, yet, they praised him for fighting the “infidels”. If your governments shaped up and started helping their “own people” instead of trying to “wipe Israel off the map”, then maybe, just maybe they could live decent lives. Israel is a perfect nation by no means, but really, which is? A lot of Islamic countries cane their own citizens, cut off their hands for stealing food for their families, lock them up for speaking against government brutality, force women to walk behind their husbands and not let them drive, etc. Look at the facts and don’t just blame all your problems on Israel…

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Look at Israel in comparison to all of the middle east, you tell me that NONE of these countries couldn’t have assimilated the Palestinian population??? Come on… Your governments are using the Palestinian people as a political tool against the infidels… period.
 
The proof of the pudding so to speak .Is that a muslim citazen of Israel is better off than a muslim citizen of almost any muslim country.
 
Why is it that no Muslim or Islamic appologist has responed to ‘Semper Fi’? Could it be that they don’t want to face the truth?
 
Ok, I can tell you straight off, as a Catholic, I, in no way, could ever support Israel in it’s occupation.

It is not confined to Muslims to be in opposition to Israel’s occupation.

Just tell me why must it be an “Islamic Apologist” to respond to that?

And just a note: A Muslim citizen of Israel? Yes, they will be well off. “You’re Muslim, you have an arms-smugglers’ tunnel under your house! You’re being evicted, your house being destroyed, and you shall in no way be compensated.” - Do you know HOW many stories of that I’ve heard? Even if they go to Israeli court, it will be biased, even then, if found innocent, little or nothing is done.

The present occupation, and settlement ideology is synonymous with the British occupation of Ireland over the last eight hundred years. As if the Unionists even have a claim to N.Ireland… Why we even recognise it… All due to a president we once had - All Irish produced maps pre-1990 did not have N.Ireland on the map. Heh. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hostile to the Unionists up north in anyway.

But I will say: There is no reason for the other countries to say what they say about Israel, or to blame their problems (As said above) on Israel (Mainly because 80% of the countries have had little or no troubles with Israel, only that their “Bretheren” have.)

You’re also forgetting the difference in the major religions of the countries - I.e. Shia and Sunni. Palestine is mainly Sunni, and therefore, other nations that are predominently Shia, would not be entirely happy to incorporate their citizens/refugees into their own.

You can complain about suicide bombers as much as you want, so long as you do not forget how many times Israel has killed random Palestinians. I do remember the time a little girl was shot several times (Then in the head) due to the fact they thought her schoolbag was a bomb. No questions. A little girl - Please, justify that (And, all the other murders)

To be honest, any political faction of the Palestinians, in my opinion, are weak. The militant terrorist organisations are very strong. Israel just pulling out, and leaving them to their own devices, to police that area, was rather stupid. They should have helped their political leaders in that area while pulling out, not oppose them. But of course, the only reason for them pulling out, is due to the fact of the population increase - No matter what Israel could have done, within twenty years, the Palestinian population in the occupied territories would explode, ending up diminishing the Israeli population - Making their cry for independance a lot stronger, especially if they were still occupied.
(And as a sign of arrogance, why did Israel feel the need to demolish the settlements, except for the Synagogues? I mean, could they not have left the houses? They destroyed so many houses of the Palestinians, could they not have, at least, given them these houses? And why leave the Synagogues, the only last standing building? Then they complain about them being vandalised? What did they expect?: “Oh, they came, took our land, kicked us out, destoyed our houses, built settlements, finally left, but then destroyed them, and left a building which represents the occupation. I think, with no Jewish people left within five hundred square kilometres, we should leave it!”)

“Promise Land”? I’m not Jewish, by all rights, the New Covenant made that religion (No offence) defunkt. Why start talking about what God promised to people who refused to believe? Don’t bring religion into this area of politics, it actually serves as no ligitimate claim to land - Especially if you’re part of a religion which has deemed those claims to be no longer “ligitimate” in the eyes of God.

The population of Jews in that area, was very little in comparison with the Islamic population, until the 1940s. When it slowly began to increase, then shot up after the creation of the state.

The Muslims, who have been there since the Islamic religion was brought to that part of the Middle East, and not to forget the people who were there since the Diaspora, were promised a Palestinian state by the British during WWI, in response to Palestinian help to rise up against the Ottoman Empire - The British helped to train them, they revolted, the Ottoman Empire was pushed back. Nothing availed for the Palestinians of that victory.

If you start talking about who lived there first, you can go to those who lived there pre-Biblical Israel, (Also Philistine which existed at the same time), those who lived there pre-Diaspora, and ever since. Which, infact, is a longer time.

You’re map is also incorrect, some of the countries portrayed on that map are half Islamic and half Christian (The best example of the entire map is Sudan), also you’re forgetting Turkey and Pakistan (Which, both are only partially visable)

(Continued on; next post)
 
(Continued from last post)

All I see are people here looking at it from one perspective. Not only that, they don’t even know to compare certain parts of history to present day events - I.e. occupation of Ireland, which annoys me when people bring up historical facts (Historians always refer to other incidents in history with relevence to present day occurrences)

And again, I put to you, why must it be an Islamic apologist?
As a Catholic, I am confused at your one sidedness, and as an Irish person, I know how to compare the incidents, and therefore, feel a sense of sympathy with their problems (Though not approval of methods), yet, I try to remain neutral. Though the obvious facts are, Israel is not as perfect as you say it is, you paint the Islamic nations to be these evil bastards, yet you overlook all crimes committed by Israel and their occupation.
 
This was to be an ammendment to the above post, though I took longer than twenty minutes, so I must post anew.

Interesting, the Christian-Islamic conference of 1920 advocated the independance of Palestine (I.e. not just Islam), and issued a letter to the League of Nations. The first Christian-Islamic conference stated Palestine was just “Southern Syria”, their minds changed after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and the French occupation of Syria, and the British occupation of Palestine.

Quoting their letter:
“Palestine, land of Miracles and the supernatural, and the cradle of religions”, demanding, amongst other things, that a “National Government be created which shall be responsible to a Parliament elected by the Palestinian People, who existed in Palestine before the war.”

At that time, 11% of the population were Christian, and 11% Jewish, while the rest (76% - 1% other), was Islamic.

Now, over the next few decades, the Jewish population began to rise, especially after the Zionist movement started putting pressure on Britain. After, and even during WWII, the British came under attack by Jews and Arabs alike. Of course, the British just wanted to leave, put forward a partition plan, and left it up to the UN. Of course, to the inhabitents of Palestine, the slow influx of Jews seemed like an “invasion”, then they hear of partition - Why favour the “invaders”? I mean, at this moment, look to N.Ireland. As I see it, the British came in, established Plantations (Settlements), massacred our people, starved them… Etc…, They then pull out, except they partition our country, in favour of those who came here, and ruined our country - Of course, this was a biased move, as there were no independant bodies in existence at the time. So, Isræl accepts, the state is created - At a MUCH smaller size than the 1967 borders, the Arabs feel violated, as they were already warring, they continue the fighting, with the aid of their neighbours - They are easily pushed back with their poor organisation and equipment, compared to the superior army of an organised country, that is Isræl. Isræl not only manages to maintain its independance, but expands its borders. (Again: Imagine during the Irish civil war, the Unionists decide to expand the British occupied sixth of the island?) During their annexation of these newly acquired territories, they expell the Palestinians, and destroy their homes. This creates a Palestinian exodus from their lands, into neighbouring states, only increasing Isæls grasp on the area.

One thing I do give in favour of Isræl, is that they have great respect for all Jewish and non-Jewish religious Holy Areas. While the Muslims have attacked (And even converted into Mosques) Jewish holy areas.

I do believe both states should be allowed to exist, though the anti-Palestinian argument is, often enough, rather pathetic. But, currently, the situation is completely unsatisfactory, and it has a very long way to go yet.

Edit: Ninety four countries fully recognise the Palestinian State and Authority. One such country, very importantly, is the Vatican City.
 
RE ; Zerith
Israel was a english occupied area until Independence.It didn’t have an Army or air force. It used what Americans would call minute men to create an army. It was attacked by all its neighbors. Jordan had the Arab legion the best fighting force in the middle east. Yet by some miracle Israel fought them to a stand off. The Arabs fought four more wars with Israel,most that they started .
The Vatican wants the UN to run Jerusalem .A very bad idea the UN can’t be trusted not to suurender Jerusalem to a kid with a skate board .At the first flicker of trouble.
 
Zerith said:
(Continued from last post)

All I see are people here looking at it from one perspective. Not only that, they don’t even know to compare certain parts of history to present day events - I.e. occupation of Ireland, which annoys me when people bring up historical facts (Historians always refer to other incidents in history with relevence to present day occurrences)

And again, I put to you, why must it be an Islamic apologist?
As a Catholic, I am confused at your one sidedness, and as an Irish person, I know how to compare the incidents, and therefore, feel a sense of sympathy with their problems (Though not approval of methods), yet, I try to remain neutral. Though the obvious facts are, Israel is not as perfect as you say it is, you paint the Islamic nations to be these evil bastards, yet you overlook all crimes committed by Israel and their occupation.

Zerith, i greatly appreciate your posts. Even though i dont agree Israel has the right to exist, i respect the approach you took in narrating the situation. Thank you.

I was upset by some of the posts and arguments made in support of Israel, theyre actually the kind of arguments you would hear an Israeli jew give (ie. ‘this is jewish land and u arabs dont belong here’), which i did not expect to read in a catholic forum. But I refrained from replying in this thread because it is more of a political thread and has little to do with interfaith dialogue.
 
Semper Fi: So the Armenian population of Palestine that was forcably uprooted by the Zionists actually belong to Syria, Egypt, and Jordan? How about the natives of Palestine, who are the descendants of the Jews of Jesus’ time?

The whole “Palestinians are just Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians” bit is so tired and mythical that it saddens me to see it thrown about so often. My Christian relatives who lived in Palestine (now Israel) generations before the existance of Zionism were forced out of their homes by the Zionists prior to, and during, the 1948 war.

What’s done is done, but lets not insult the memory of the dispossessed by claiming that they should have simply gone eslewhere. They were forced out of their homes by Zionists, and even Israel recognizes that today. The only place that these myths seem to be perpetuated is the U.S.

Peace and God bless.
 
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