As an Irish Catholic, I take exception to the above, so please don’t try to include me in your ‘discernment’ by the use of ‘we’. Implying that here in Ireland the faithful simply ‘go through the motions’ is a gross generalisation, and bordering on the offensive. Again, on what do you base this extraordinary conclusion ? Have you lived in Ireland and experienced what it is to be Catholic here?
This is not a slight at the Irish in any sense; I will be visiting in May (very excited!).
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How is suggesting that the Catholic faithful in Ireland are merely going through the motions of their faith not a slight at Irish Catholics?
I am delighted to hear that you will be visiting Ireland in May - but not entirely sure why this should be a cause for excitement
As for Ireland in recession: we’ve been poor before so it’s not exactly a new experience for us, and for many here poverty was a continuing experience right through the economic boom. And, as history tells us, we’ve experienced a shortage of priests before, too, and somehow the faith survived.
The history of Catholicism in Ireland is not a story of clericalism - though many would like to paint it as such - it is the story of an adaptive and resilient laity. Gloom and doom about a fall off in vocations in Ireland is, IMO (and to quote an Irish priest writing on this subject) ‘an affront to God’s presence in the world and an insult to the gospel. God does not abandon his people’.
I am not suggesting we should do nothing - an old Irish saying states: ‘Trust in God but row away from the rocks’ - and I’m fully supportive of, and active in, the current drive for vocations in Ireland. But it occurs to me that if the day comes that Ireland no longer has enough priests (whatever ‘enough’ means), that maybe, just maybe, it is the will of God. To quote that priest again: we must trust that “even without priests, God will still work in hidden ways and diverse manners to renew the face of the Earth”.
A.Pelliccio;4264957:
I am delighted to hear that you will be visiting Ireland in May - but not entirely sure why this should be a cause for excitementThis is not a slight at the Irish in any sense; I will be visiting in May (very excited!).
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How is suggesting that the Catholic faithful in Ireland are merely going through the motions of their faith not a slight at Irish Catholics? My apologies A.Pelliccio. I misunderstood your opening sentence to be a comment on a previous post
For clarification: not entirely sure why this should be a cause for YOUR excitement. IMO Ireland is not up there in a list of exotic destinations!
As for Ireland in recession: we’ve been poor before so it’s not exactly a new experience for us, and for many here poverty was a continuing experience right through the economic boom. And, as history tells us, we’ve experienced a shortage of priests before, too, and somehow the faith survived.
The history of Catholicism in Ireland is not a story of clericalism - though many would like to paint it as such - it is the story of an adaptive and resilient laity. Gloom and doom about a fall off in vocations in Ireland is, IMO (and to quote an Irish priest writing on this subject) ‘an affront to God’s presence in the world and an insult to the gospel. God does not abandon his people’.
I am not suggesting we should do nothing - an old Irish saying states: ‘Trust in God but row away from the rocks’ - and I’m fully supportive of, and active in, the current drive for vocations in Ireland. But it occurs to me that if the day comes that Ireland no longer has enough priests (whatever ‘enough’ means), that maybe, just maybe, it is the will of God. To quote that priest again: we must trust that “even without priests, God will still work in hidden ways and diverse manners to renew the face of the Earth”.
I don’t think that the poster you replied to meant what he was saying as a slight to Ireland. In general what we share with others is our own personal experiences and observations in our own countries. It is a human trait to expand our experiences to what we believe others are experiencing.
County Cork is my favourite county after my native one! I spent several years living there and my closest friend - apart from DH
- is a Corkonian. It’s also very beautiful, especially the western part of the county, and Cork city is Ireland in microcosm - the ‘real’ capital, IMO Enjoy!
My great grandfather was from Ireland (George Thomas Evans). He had bright red hair, as does my grandson.When you can tell the difference between Irish ‘temper’ (whatever that is) and Irish forthrightness, get back to meYellow Belle, LOL. You really are Irish, with the temper to go along with it!
Anyway, what I posted is a generalization, not an all-inclusive statement. Certainly, there would be exceptions, you being one. However, it is a well-known (?) fact that vocations come from God, and are the fruit of doing His will within the Church of that area. If the faithful are, for the most part, doing God’s will, then vocations will flourish. If they’re not, then there is a vocation shortage. There’s an old Latin phrase that says that we cannot give what we do not have. We cannot pass on the faith to young men who may be called to the priesthood if we’re not living our faith as God intends. There is a worldliness that has crept into the Church in many areas, the result of which, among other things, is a decrease in vocations.
I’m not condemning you or any other individual in particular. I’m just saying that you are experiencing the fruits, or lack thereof, of the Church in your area. It is what it is.
I find it interesting that you would take issue with what I’m saying. If you and I went out to a fancy restaurant to eat a fine meal, and I noticed that you had a booger hanging out of your nose, that you didn’t notice, would it be best that I not say anything so as not to risk embarrassing you? Or would the really charitable thing be to let you know, so that you can deal with it before going in a crowded public place where everyone could see it? The same is true for the spiritual life. Many people, and regions where the Church is, have spiritual boogers hanging from their souls. LOL We can either ignore them, and act like we’re whistling while walking through the graveyard at night, hoping no one notices, or we can deal with it straight up. Which do you think would be more advisable?
In today’s culture, it’s also relevant to promote abortion as a right, and gay marriage as a right as well.
You’ll do just fine in Ireland