(Irish) Archbishop urges lapsed Catholics to leave the faith

[markomalley]

Per the Irish Independent: (H/T to Deacon Greg Kendra):
The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has urged the country’s lapsed Catholics to have the maturity to leave the church.

Over the past two decades, rising numbers of ‘a la carte’ Catholics simply turn up at the altar for the sacraments like baptism, communion and marriage.

But in a new documentary on the future of the church, priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from their flock in the future. It shows how church pews swell to almost full capacity for celebratory sacraments, while Sunday services have dwindling numbers.

Archbishop Martin urged non-believers to walk away from the church.
An interesting approach.

Thoughts? (Remember this is an archbishop of the Church, so be respectful, particularly if you don’t agree with him)

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Per the Irish Independent: (H/T to Deacon Greg Kendra):
The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has urged the country’s lapsed Catholics to have the maturity to leave the church.

Over the past two decades, rising numbers of ‘a la carte’ Catholics simply turn up at the altar for the sacraments like baptism, communion and marriage.

But in a new documentary on the future of the church, priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from their flock in the future. It shows how church pews swell to almost full capacity for celebratory sacraments, while Sunday services have dwindling numbers.

Archbishop Martin urged non-believers to walk away from the church.
An interesting approach.

Thoughts? (Remember this is an archbishop of the Church, so be respectful, particularly if you don’t agree with him)

Respectfully I would suggest His Eminence to invite the lapsed in and not expel them out. Seems obvious, no ?

 

[kmuestwin]

I think he needs to say it both ways. Invite those who want to be obedient and follow God into a closer union with Him and His Holy Church and ask those who wish to change, subvert, and undermine the Church’s teachings to please leave.

The Church has always had the ability to detect and expel heritic ideas and beliefs.

Maybe we all need a cleansing of the Temple.

 

[followingtheway]

Respectfully I would suggest His Eminence to invite the lapsed in and not expel them out. Seems obvious, no ?

I agree, we don’t want people to leave the faith, that’s the whole reason we don’t like them being lapsed either!

 

[charliedrake]

Good Golly, half the Catholics will have to leave if this is literal. Too many cafeteria pro choice Catholics roaming ramification free.

 

[meltzerboy]

Per the Irish Independent: (H/T to Deacon Greg Kendra):
The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has urged the country’s lapsed Catholics to have the maturity to leave the church.

Over the past two decades, rising numbers of ‘a la carte’ Catholics simply turn up at the altar for the sacraments like baptism, communion and marriage.

But in a new documentary on the future of the church, priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from their flock in the future. It shows how church pews swell to almost full capacity for celebratory sacraments, while Sunday services have dwindling numbers.

Archbishop Martin urged non-believers to walk away from the church.
An interesting approach.

Thoughts? (Remember this is an archbishop of the Church, so be respectful, particularly if you don’t agree with him)

I’m not Catholic or Christian, but I still have an opinion on this matter. I feel it somewhat inappropriate for a leader of the Church (or synagogue, mosque, etc.) to encourage any of their flock to leave the Church. It seems to me they would do better to help their parishioners understand and grow in the faith while encouraging them to stay in the Church. In fact, I’ve never heard of this attitude before. Has any other Catholic bishop or archbishop ever expressed similar views?

 

[saveusfromhell]

Respectfully I would suggest His Eminence to invite the lapsed in and not expel them out. Seems obvious, no ?

lapsed catholics recieving holy communion has many problems on various levels.
from our view point they who recieve, Jesus in the eucharist, that are not in good standing, draw judgement on themselves. i think one saint compared it to the crowd who shouted cruify him on good friday.
even if they don’t believe this, out of common decency for us, who do, they should abstain from recieving what we believe to be our God. in the eucharist

also comming into a church to baptise your children as catholics and promising to bring the child up as a catholic is froth with danger for them come judgement day.
many now say i’m a catholic who doesn’t believe. this has an effect on the practising catholics. who wonder why do i still believe when everyone i went to school grew up with and so on think its a fariy story.

so no i think the archbishop called it right

 

[Luvtosew]

Perhaps the lapsed Catholic would hear something and return full force, if you want someone to leave the Church that would be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Are people waiting in line to get into a Mass at the churches due to room , in that case maybe.

Sould they start taking roll call every week and stike 3 your out?

 

[stanczyk]

Good Golly, half the Catholics will have to leave if this is literal. Too many cafeteria pro choice Catholics roaming ramification free.

People act like being pro choice is the only thing that makes somebody a cafeteria Catholic. Granted, it’s incompatible with the church, but so it is birth control, in vitro, vasectomy, elective war, gratuitous use of the death penalty, and a whole host of things that Catholics support every day. I’ve heard Catholic who vociferously reject the Church’s teaching on social justice altogether. There are a lot of Catholics out there who like to cherry-pick.

I think we need to shepherd these lost sheep back into the flock, not drive them farther away.

 

[saveusfromhell]

People act like being pro choice is the only thing that makes somebody a cafeteria Catholic. Granted, it’s incompatible with the church, but so it is birth control, in vitro, vasectomy, elective war, gratuitous use of the death penalty, and a whole host of things that Catholics support every day. I’ve heard Catholic who vociferously reject the Church’s teaching on social justice altogether. There are a lot of Catholics out there who like to cherry-pick.

I think we need to shepherd these lost sheep back into the flock, not drive them farther away.

but your talking about something different than what the bishop is refering to.
it’s about people who come to mass for their wedding funeral and baptism. not someone who is struggling to come to terms with the teaching of the church

 

[stanczyk]

also comming into a church to baptise your children as catholics and promising to bring the child up as a catholic is froth with danger for them come judgement day.
many now say i’m a catholic who doesn’t believe. this has an effect on the practising catholics. who wonder why do i still believe when everyone i went to school grew up with and so on think its a fariy story.

so no i think the archbishop called it right

Doesn’t the welfare of the child come into this at all? Even if the parents are lapsed or worse, having the child baptized is certainly better than the alternative, no?

It is so critical to have children baptized at a young age; and the wrongdoing of their parents shouldn’t preclude the children from baptism. I don’t think there should be any unnecessary impediment to baptizing innocent children.

 

[chevalier]

I’m not Catholic or Christian, but I still have an opinion on this matter. I feel it somewhat inappropriate for a leader of the Church (or synagogue, mosque, etc.) to encourage any of their flock to leave the Church. It seems to me they would do better to help their parishioners understand and grow in the faith while encouraging them to stay in the Church. In fact, I’ve never heard of this attitude before. Has any other Catholic bishop or archbishop ever expressed similar views?

Not sure but there is a trend. Dietrich von Hildebrand, a prominent recent theologian, believed that it was better that a heretic leave the church in order that he wouldn’t spread heresy within it and also better for his soul to face the removal (including excommunication) and possibly experience a conversion of heart as a result.

There is a problem with turning up for Holy Communion while in a state of mortal sin and consequently there is a problem with skipping confession. I agree there must be a shake-up there, people must be told the important things black and white and smoothing the edges to avoid overt discord could be misleading to them, as if it were a minor and even acceptable thing for them to dissent on basic matters.

On the other hand, while I might be wrong, I believe the message urging people to rethink their approach and reconcile themselves with God and His Church should be louder. I would be more in favour of targetting the non-practicing, fallen away, nonviolently dissenting flock with missionary effort rather than pushing them away on purpose or hitting them with censure. Except some people won’t believe it’s serious until some of penalty hits or they otherwise need to confront reality.

 

[stanczyk]

but your talking about something different than what the bishop is refering to.
it’s about people who come to mass for their wedding funeral and baptism. not someone who is struggling to come to terms with the teaching of the church

Well, it was sort of a tangent.

But honestly, I don’t see much difference between a Christmas-and-Easter Catholic and a pro-choice Catholic. They are both fundamentally at odds with the Church. They are both lost sheep, just in different ways.

Incidentally, how is it even possible for a lapsed Catholic to just “come back for a wedding?” Even if you’re baptized you still have to go through some pretty protracted marriage prep, right?

 

[markomalley]

Respectfully I would suggest His Eminence to invite the lapsed in and not expel them out. Seems obvious, no ?

I agree, we don’t want people to leave the faith, that’s the whole reason we don’t like them being lapsed either!

I’m not Catholic or Christian, but I still have an opinion on this matter. I feel it somewhat inappropriate for a leader of the Church (or synagogue, mosque, etc.) to encourage any of their flock to leave the Church. It seems to me they would do better to help their parishioners understand and grow in the faith while encouraging them to stay in the Church. In fact, I’ve never heard of this attitude before. Has any other Catholic bishop or archbishop ever expressed similar views?

An example of why His Excellency might be right is in the “womanpriest” article also at the top of “Catholic News”:

If one leaves, one cannot effect change. So we’re pushing boundaries

While I think the Archbishop is primarily talking about Christmas/Easter/Baptism/Funeral - type Catholics, he could also be talking about people who don’t form their consciences. While in some cases, it is just neglect, there is a distinct population, like the woman who made the comment quoted above, who simply wish to destroy the Church from within. Yes, it would be far better for heretics like her to simply leave.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Well, it was sort of a tangent.

But honestly, I don’t see much difference between a Christmas-and-Easter Catholic and a pro-choice Catholic. They are both fundamentally at odds with the Church. They are both lost sheep, just in different ways.
QUOTE]
yes but the bishop is not saying that he is calling out the ones who do not believe in any form, but want to use the church for a white church wedding

Incidentally, how is it even possible for a lapsed Catholic to just “come back for a wedding?” Even if you’re baptized you still have to go through some pretty protracted marriage prep, right?/

 

[triumphguy]

Our local Catholic schools stopped teaching/providing sacramental prep as a way of “forcing” Catholics to turn to their parishes for this.

We will see in a generation whether that means more or less people in Catholic Churches and schools. My guess is that there will be far less kids in Catholic schools.

As to the Archbishop telling part-time or lapsed Catholics to take a hike: remember he’s Irish and he’s speaking to Irish people! I’ve never known an Irishman to do what he’s told

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Yes, they should leave. I have heard countless “Catholics” chuckle about how birth control is only technically a sin and that “all Catholics use it”. It makes the entire religion look hypocritical and it makes it look to outsiders like the church should not be taken seriously. It was just reported that self-identified Catholic women have a slightly higher rate of abortion than the rest of the female population. Things like that undermine the mission and the image of the church.

 

[baylee]

I completely agree with this for those who are hell bent on dissent and hope for their change within the Church. They truly believe they are doing what is best for the Church. In reality, they are like a cancer in the Church spreading their heresy.

Having said that, there are a number of Catholics who were poorly catechized, are struggling with the teachings, etc. Those should not be encouraged to leave the Church, but encouraged to better understand the Truth in the Church.

 

[BlueSapphire]

I totally agree with the ArchBishop. Many Catholics turn up Mass for Christmas and Easter, and the odd family gathering and then never darken the the church again until the next ‘occasion’! And there are those who are co-habiting and presenting themselves for Holy Communion!

 

[CMatt25]

How exactly does one leave without erasing the permanent indelible character placed upon one’s soul which made them a member of the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church, in the first place?