Irish Bishop bans Eulogies

[markomalley]

But when you are juxtaposing a homily and a eulogy, that is a direction to the priest. The priest may not do a eulogy, he’s to do a homily. That was explained by a priest at the funeral of a friend many years ago.

That doesn’t address the fact that, at least in the US, The Rite of Christian Funeral allows for a friend or family member to speak of the deceased at the end of the Mass, between the Prayers after Communion and the Final Commendation.

The Canadian Rite has that during the Vigil and we do our best to have it there – but my experience in parishes other than my present one is that the Vigil is practically unknown. I lost both my parents and there was never any mention of a funeral Vigil. I didn’t discover that ritual until I started being involved in pastoral care in my parish.

Maybe the Irish Rite doesn’t have that allowance in in any of its funeral liturgies. Without a look at the Rite there is no way to know.

What I do know is that in a community like ours, where many, if not most Catholic families have a non-Catholic parent or son/daughter-in-law, it’s very difficult to maintain a strictly Catholic funeral rite without alienating people. Sadly, that usually results in bad liturgy and an unwillingness to address closed Communion, resulting in even Protestant clergy receiving Communion.

From the Diocese of Meath:

The following regulations are to be followed at all funerals:

Appreciations or eulogies by family members or friends of the deceased should not take place in the Church but may take place after the Rite of Committal in the cemetery or when the family and friends gather.

The ambo is for the proclamation of the Word of God.

Readings at the Funeral Liturgy should be taken from the Lectionary.

Secular songs, poems and texts devoid of a Christian content are out of place in the Funeral Liturgy.

A post-Communion reflection of a prayerful nature can be given after Communion but this should be agreed beforehand with the Celebrant and should not be used as a cloak for a eulogy.

As is clear from the directives on the Funeral Rite, the deceased should not be canonized in the homily.

If a visiting priest is officiating at the Funeral Mass he should be informed of these regulations and asked to abide by them.

It is important that undertakers in your area are aware of these regulations. It is also important that clear arrangements are in place on the signing of books of condolence. Some priests expressed the view that they should not be allowed in the Church.

Clear arrangements, allowing people the opportunity to offer sympathy to the family of the deceased, should be put in place in each parish.

In some places it seems that the ‘funeral planner’ has made an appearance. Priests should only engage with the family in relation to the Funeral Rite.

Again, exactly in accordance with the GIRM and the OCF. He’s not inventing anything, he’s just enforcing existing rules.

 

[Phemie]

Again, exactly in accordance with the GIRM and the OCF. He’s not inventing anything, he’s just enforcing existing rules.

I’m not disagreeing, just saying that different countries’ OCF allow different things.

 

[markomalley]

I’m not disagreeing, just saying that different countries’ OCF allow different things.

I understand it happens. Not trying to argue on the matter, but when I see these types of potential abuses (I think back to Teddy Kennedy’s funeral with its “issues”), I call to mind the Second Vatican Council:
22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.

1. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.

3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
I always ask myself, when I see something that is opposed to universal norms but is apparently accepted in a specific area, “is this approved by the episcopal conference…and has that been validated by the Holy See?”

When I’ve done the research, I am not surprised that the usual answer is: “no.”

 

[Phemie]

I understand it happens. Not trying to argue on the matter, but when I see these types of potential abuses (I think back to Teddy Kennedy’s funeral with its “issues”), I call to mind the Second Vatican Council:22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.

1. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.

3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
I always ask myself, when I see something that is opposed to universal norms but is apparently accepted in a specific area, “is this approved by the episcopal conference…and has that been validated by the Holy See?”

When I’ve done the research, I am not surprised that the usual answer is: “no.”

I don’t know about the US, but in Canada the ritual books are put together by the CCCB. I can only assume that the Order of Christian Funerals used in the US is approved by the USCCB and in use all over the US rather than each diocese/parish making up its own.

Just because the CCCB OCF says that speaking of the deceased is to be done at the Vigil, it doesn’t always happen that way.

In my community it is a rare funeral that doesn’t have a eulogy. At one memorable funeral of a very devout woman, the priest had told the family “NO EULOGY”. Before the Prayer after Communion her son-in-law made his way to the ambo and said “We were told we weren’t to speak but I’m sure you won’t mind,” and proceeded to speak for 20 minutes ending with everyone in the church sobbing. I thought the Pastor was going to have a stroke, he was so angry.

As I said, eulogies are the least of the liturgical abuses that occur at funerals. I haven’t told you about the priest who had a big tent set up in the sanctuary (blocking the Tabernacle until someone insisted that the Tabernacle be moved), complete with trees, snowshoes, etc. and set the urn with the deceased ashes on a bench in front of the tent because the guy spent a lot of time on the land. It was a sight to behold - sooo glad I was going on holidays that morning so I didn’t have to be at the funeral.

What the last pastor did was allow one person to speak of the deceased immediately after casket was brought up to the front of the church. The reception of the body was done after the eulogy.

 

[Tigg]

markomalley…

:tiphat:

Your posts usually epitomize the reason I stay on this forum - I have copied many of your excellent resources (and even gently, on occasion, brought them to the attention of our pastor.) Until six years ago when we moved here, I had never witnessed a eulogy of any kind in a Catholic Church - either before or after the Mass. It was unheard of in the parish we came from. How I wish we could go back to that time and place!

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The Order of Christian Funerals in use in the USA states in #170 that following the Prayer after Communion and before the Final Commendation, “a member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased…”

Since it is permissive in nature and not prescriptive it is therefore optional. The Bishop, pastor, or celebrant may allow it or disallow it. The bishops of some dioceses have elected to not permit them at all. Other bishops of dioceses have decided to permit them within certain restrictions. And even in dioceses where the Ordinary permits them, some pastors have refused to permit them.

There’s lots of room for disagreement/discussion on this matter. Personally I’m a bit mixed on the idea of eulogies. I do have to say 95% of the time they are fine, its that 5% of the time that gets my blood pressure up. My bishop leaves it up to the pastor and celebrant to decide.

 

[Rosebud77]

This is IRELAND!

As the traditional wake has become less customary, elements have been creeping into the funeral mass. The bishop quoted one recent case where a glass of Guinness was placed on the coffin in Church to symbolise the man’s life.

There was a very telling discussion on one Irish news site that revealed how little folk actually knew what mass was all about and especially a funeral mass

As several pointed out, if you don’t believe what the Church is about, then there are lay funeral officiants. That was clear. that there was no real awareness.

Most of us came to teach that the wake was the place for the glasses of Guinness and the secular and honouring the life of the deceased

Really it is much along the lines of trying to staunch the excesses we see here re First Communion… the stretch limos and horse and carriages, make up and elaborate gowns.

Of refocussing on the true meaning of Mass and here of the funeral mass

 

[gam197]

This is IRELAND!

As the traditional wake has become less customary, elements have been creeping into the funeral mass. The bishop quoted one recent case where a glass of Guinness was placed on the coffin in Church to symbolise the man’s life.

There was a very telling discussion on one Irish news site that revealed how little folk actually knew what mass was all about and especially a funeral mass

As several pointed out, if you don’t believe what the Church is about, then there are lay funeral officiants. That was clear. that there was no real awareness.

Most of us came to teach that the wake was the place for the glasses of Guinness and the secular and honouring the life of the deceased

Really it is much along the lines of trying to staunch the excesses we see here re First Communion… the stretch limos and horse and carriages, make up and elaborate gowns.

Of refocussing on the true meaning of Mass and here of the funeral mass

This is Ireland and they are probably seeing change.

What we have seen in the U.S. is a great change from mourning for the deceased from 1 whole week(sometimes at home -yes wakes did take place in people’s homes) to 2 days in a funeral home(wake) to 1 day in a funeral home to the newest which is no funeral home but simply the funeral mass. This allows people very little time to grieve or even remember the person’s life.

Many go to the funeral mass and do not go to the gravesite or after event for food. There may not even be an after event with food. They simply leave after going to mass or cemetery.

I have witnessed nice eulogies done at the after event with food…
Some churches are even addressing that by having a group make sandwiches and host the after event downstairs in the church hall if available.

The Church is trying to figure what is appropriate to the dignity of the deceased.

 

[Phemie]

This is Ireland and they are probably seeing change.

What we have seen in the U.S. is a great change from mourning for the deceased from 1 whole week(sometimes at home -yes wakes did take place in people’s homes) to 2 days in a funeral home(wake) to 1 day in a funeral home to the newest which is no funeral home but simply the funeral mass. This allows people very little time to grieve or even remember the person’s life.

Many go to the funeral mass and do not go to the gravesite or after event for food. There may not even be an after event with food. They simply leave after going to mass or cemetery.

I have witnessed nice eulogies done at the after event with food…
Some churches are even addressing that by having a group make sandwiches and host the after event downstairs in the church hall if available.

The Church is trying to figure what is appropriate to the dignity of the deceased.

In my home parish, where Mom & Dad were buried, nobody goes to the cemetery but the priest, even though the cemetery is right behind the church. The prayers usually recited at the grave side are done at the back of the Church and then the family adjourns to the hall for a reception. It’s as though they want to avoid any opportunity to see death as final – all sanitized and packaged.

 

[Trader]

The bishop is right.

Eulogies have no place in any funeral mass - not just Irish ones.

The funeral mass is about the death and resurrection of Christ, and is a message for all present at the funeral.

I could not agree more. For many years I have been part of our Resurrection choir that sings at funerals. I have seen eulogies where a close family member broke down with grief. I came close to that myself when I was drafted by my siblings for the funeral of my mother. I declined that job when my father died four years later.

Worse than that, I have seen eulogies that contradicted the homily of the presiding priest, were heretical, irreverent, and had no place in any liturgy–all this in a cathedral parish that takes great pains to be an example for the diocese. I can only imagine what happens in parishes not under close scrutiny of the bishop.

 

[CarolNoel]

I could almost live with eulogies if we could get rid of the power point picture tribute complete with deceased’s favorite song and big screen in the sanctuary.

Yes. They go on and on and on sometimes.

 

[gam197]

In my home parish, where Mom & Dad were buried, nobody goes to the cemetery but the priest, even though the cemetery is right behind the church. The prayers usually recited at the grave side are done at the back of the Church and then the family adjourns to the hall for a reception. It’s as though they want to avoid any opportunity to see death as final – all sanitized and packaged.

There is something to be said for closure. The gravesite does that. There is usually a prayer, people put a flower on or touch caskets.

The reception really doesn’t give you closure. You are seeing many people you haven’t seen for some time and it goes pretty quickly.

This is all a product of people don’t matter and let’s move on.

originally posted by** Trader**
I have seen eulogies where a close family member broke down with grief

I don’t think the eulogies need to be done during mass but there definitely needs to be a time for people to grieve openly, to express their loss. Crying is good and expected - no shame there.

I really kind of enjoy them as the eulogies often help me to know parts of the person, I loved.

 

[gam197]

I could almost live with eulogies if we could get rid of the power point picture tribute complete with deceased’s favorite song and big screen in the sanctuary.

The eulogies I have heard are usually during the homily I believe and 1 or 2 chosen members will get up and tell a little bit about the person. It’s usually pretty quick.

There are pictures hung at the reception.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I don’t understand why people don’t just do their eulogies at the graveside or the reception. It does not “fit,” it does not seem “proper,” to have a eulogy within the funeral liturgy itself. Even having eulogies after or even before the liturgy seems more appropriate and preferable.

I think the graveside is most appropriate. It can also be turned in to a sort of farewell thing, and I think that is good.

 

[gracepoole]

Granted, I’ve never attended a funeral Mass in which a PowerPoint was used eek – and I don’t know anyone in my family who would even think to ask for secular music to be shared. But I have loved several eulogies that have been offered by family members – they were reverent, usually spoke of the deceased’s faith life and role in the Church, and added something significant to the spiritual and offertory nature of the Mass. The “wake” has always been the time to pray the rosary and engage in other forms of prayer in my family.

I think the real problem arises when “fallen away” Catholics get up to speak. They don’t seem to have any sense of familiarity with the Mass anymore, and so they typically think all sorts of things should be given a thumbs up.

 

[gam197]

I don’t understand why people don’t just do their eulogies at the graveside or the reception. It does not “fit,” it does not seem “proper,” to have a eulogy within the funeral liturgy itself. Even having eulogies after or even before the liturgy seems more appropriate and preferable.

I think the graveside is most appropriate. It can also be turned in to a sort of farewell thing, and I think that is good.

I think it is because some people don’t attend the grave and old people can’t hear or even stand for too long.

They could do it at the end of the mass. I’ve seen that done and that works fine.

I’ve heard the eulogy once at the reception and her daughter and son did a nice job of talking about their mom after everyone had eaten.

 

[gam197]

Granted, I’ve never attended a funeral Mass in which a PowerPoint was used eek – and I don’t know anyone in my family who would even think to ask for secular music to be shared. But I have loved several eulogies that have been offered by family members – they were reverent, usually spoke of the deceased’s faith life and role in the Church, and added something significant to the spiritual and offertory nature of the Mass. The “wake” has always been the time to pray the rosary and engage in other forms of prayer in my family.

I think the real problem arises when “fallen away” Catholics get up to speak. They don’t seem to have any sense of familiarity with the Mass anymore, and so they typically think all sorts of things should be given a thumbs up.

The last funeral I went ot had no wake(very religious family) - only the mass with casket. I think it is the new way of doing funerals.

 

[Phemie]

The last funeral I went ot had no wake(very religious family) - only the mass with casket. I think it is the new way of doing funerals.

No wake is a problem. I grew up when wakes were still in the homes and I attended them from a very young age. At least one in our living room when I was ~2 years old and then, when I was 4, my maternal grandfather in his living room and my paternal grandfather in my aunt’s living room (brother and I knelt at both caskets and said a prayer out loud). Little girl up the road, killed by a car, when I was about 5, our young neighbor, dead in a car crash, when I was in grade 3 and in the same year the father of one classmate and the grandmother of another.

Usually wakes were 3 nights during which time there was someone with the family 24/7. Numerous rosaries were said, copious amounts of food were consumed, alcohol too, very often. It was normal, as children to stop on our way home from school at any home where there was a wake to pay our respects. Formal mourning period was a year.

When wakes moved from the home to the funeral home, there was an expressed sense of relief that now the family didn’t have to be faced with the memory of mom or dad’s casket in the corner of the living room. But wakes were still 3 days long, although the time spent at the funeral home was usually a total of 6 hours a day. Family had a chance to escape to their homes for privacy. This was not a bad thing, but at the same time it seemed that the formal period of mourning disappeared. Suddenly there was no more black for months on end.

Then people started cutting back to 2 nights and now often only 1 night for a wake. It’s not as hard on the family but the problem is that now with only a short wake period and no formal mourning period, people are expected to ‘get over it’ within a few weeks and if you’re still mourning two months after the death of a loved one people look at you as though you’re in need of psychiatric help.

I have to say that in our parish we’ve been planning Funeral Vigils with families and going to the funeral homes for this liturgy. We involve family members in this and give people a chance to remember the deceased near the end of the Vigil. Our last pastor allowed a eulogy before the start of the funeral. I haven’t experienced a funeral with our new pastor yet so I don’t know what he does.

 

[gam197]

No wake is a problem. I grew up when wakes were still in the homes and I attended them from a very young age. At least one in our living room when I was ~2 years old and then, when I was 4, my maternal grandfather in his living room and my paternal grandfather in my aunt’s living room (brother and I knelt at both caskets and said a prayer out loud). Little girl up the road, killed by a car, when I was about 5, our young neighbor, dead in a car crash, when I was in grade 3 and in the same year the father of one classmate and the grandmother of another.

Usually wakes were 3 nights during which time there was someone with the family 24/7. Numerous rosaries were said, copious amounts of food were consumed, alcohol too, very often. It was normal, as children to stop on our way home from school at any home where there was a wake to pay our respects. Formal mourning period was a year.

When wakes moved from the home to the funeral home, there was an expressed sense of relief that now the family didn’t have to be faced with the memory of mom or dad’s casket in the corner of the living room. But wakes were still 3 days long, although the time spent at the funeral home was usually a total of 6 hours a day. Family had a chance to escape to their homes for privacy. This was not a bad thing, but at the same time it seemed that the formal period of mourning disappeared. Suddenly there was no more black for months on end.

Then people started cutting back to 2 nights and now often only 1 night for a wake. It’s not as hard on the family but the problem is that now with only a short wake period and no formal mourning period, people are expected to ‘get over it’ within a few weeks and if you’re still mourning two months after the death of a loved one people look at you as though you’re in need of psychiatric help.

I have to say that in our parish we’ve been planning Funeral Vigils with families and going to the funeral homes for this liturgy. We involve family members in this and give people a chance to remember the deceased near the end of the Vigil. Our last pastor allowed a eulogy before the start of the funeral. I haven’t experienced a funeral with our new pastor yet so I don’t know what he does.

And you are not expected to mourn if they are aged. Crazy.

I talk to a number of people and they tell me they are having no wake so I believe it is the new way. They feel they have lived their lives and just want a mass.

Before the mass would be fine. The problem is there is usually music when the casket comes in or goes out so it seems a little disruptive but still most eulogies are pretty short.

 

[Tigg]

I don’t think the eulogies need to be done during mass but there definitely needs to be a time for people to grieve openly, to express their loss. Crying is good and expected - no shame there.

I really kind of enjoy them as the eulogies often help me to know parts of the person, I loved.

Grieving is necessary and natural. A eulogy is perfectly fine when done in the proper venue, but I believe if it is done immediately before or after the Mass it contravenes and obscures the unique healing quality of hope which manifests itself in the Catholic funeral Mass . Now what is legitimately permitted during the homily is remembrance of the faith life of the deceased, which of course, is different from a eulogy.