Irish Bishop bans Eulogies

[Phemie]

I’ve always assumed that one’s particular judgment happens immediately upon death.

God’s judgment is final, but this doesn’t mean we must ignore our own experiences with the deceased. Remarking on these memories isn’t equal to sitting in judgment – it’s human. Why wouldn’t God appreciate that? I have a hard time thinking that God is irritated with the son who wants to honor his mother by speaking about her devotion, faith, and love while asking for His mercy on her behalf. Only God can dispense absolute justice but we can attempt to demonstrate absolute love for the deceased.

I’ve never heard a eulogy that asked for mercy for the deceased, but I’ve heard a lot canonize the deceased and say that they are seated at the right hand of the Father along with His Son. I think I’d pass out if Purgatory was ever mentioned.

 

[gracepoole]

I’ve never heard a eulogy that asked for mercy for the deceased, but I’ve heard a lot canonize the deceased and say that they are seated at the right hand of the Father along with His Son. I think I’d pass out if Purgatory was ever mentioned.

I’m assuming that’s hyperbole? Or you’ve been to some really whacked out funerals.

 

[Phemie]

I’m assuming that’s hyperbole? Or you’ve been to some really whacked out funerals.

OK, they might not phrase it like that exactly, but they all say “He/she is in Heaven now.” Never once have i heard it even suggested that we should pray for the deceased, not even by the priest.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

It seems natural to say someone is in a better place…although I will admit that I am uneasy when someone says “person so and so is in Heaven”.

Purgatory is a better place than Earth lest we forget that those in Purgatory are already saved while those of us still here are still working out our salvation.

Although we don’t know the internal workings of any soul other than our own, we can be reasonably assured of the people in our lives and whether or not they were Godly (IMO).

It seems unnatural to say “You know so and so did so many good things in life and was a selfless individual as far as this person could tell but may be in the pit of hell for all we know”.

 

[gam197]

Wow! this forum discussion has caused me to register and make my first comment!

Being Irish-American, this topic caught my eye.

Seems like everyone is eulogizing these days, but when Mom died in 2010, I told the priest and the rest of the family there would be no eulogy at church (don’t ask me how the middle child of eight got to make the decisions this time–I don’t know). Didn’t seem proper, and besides, I felt like praying and, well…the Mass, itself, means so much.

Younger sister did one of those power-point movie thingys with pics of Mom and family in the church hall while we were all munching on a nice buffet after Mass. That was fine and a good thing. Everyone eulogized about Mom while sitting around eating. Seemed so natural. No need to speech-ify all occasions.

When they’re dead, they’re gone. Might as well tell them what a good person they are to their face. And give 'em a kiss and a hug while you have a chance.

I am not sure I would want a whole video presentation then. I like the pictures that are often placed out in the room.

We have just finished the Mass with some closure and are about to go to the place to regroup family that we often haven’t seen for awhile. Like I said I have seen persons publicly speak about the decease which was good but there was no microphone.

 

[Tigg]

God’s judgment is final, but this doesn’t mean we must ignore our own experiences with the deceased. Remarking on these memories isn’t equal to sitting in judgment – it’s human. Why wouldn’t God appreciate that? I have a hard time thinking that God is irritated with the son who wants to honor his mother by speaking about her devotion, faith, and love while asking for His mercy on her behalf. Only God can dispense absolute justice but we can attempt to demonstrate absolute love for the deceased.

No one is saying we should ignore our own interaction and memories of the deceased. But we are speaking on this thread of Catholic funeral services, and upholding the integrity of the Mass. According to the dictionary, a eulogy is “a formal speech or a piece of writing of high praise of a person – a compliment, an accolade.” Now compare this to the funeral liturgy which is meant for the entire community and focuses on Christ’s victory over sin and death and the hope for the deceased that he too, has gained this victory. Do you see how the meaning of the liturgy is being blurred by eulogies when the deceased is praised and the focus shifts from one of supernatural hope for him to one that may not even represent the reality of his life? We love the deceased but cannot know the state of their soul and our charity for them is expressed during the Mass, not with praises of them, but with supplications to God to have mercy on them. ( I think this was Ridgerunner’s point.) One focus is secular and may not be accurate, the other mystical and rightly so.

 

[Slaney]

Well, Dies Irae seems out of fashion, I was wondering if I could get Nina Simone’s “Sinnerman” sung at mine.

My daughter will make sure it’s sung, it say’s it all for me…right now, it sums up what I think of creation…

 

[didymus]

Off-topic, but I found a site called Funeral Helper and they have a list of most popular songs for funerals which includes:

My Way (a loose translation of ‘non serviam’)

The Dance (from Dirty Dancing)

We’ll Meet Again – closing theme from Dr Strangelove

Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien (I Have No Regrets)

Three Times a Lady ???]

Qy: are these things people request or choices funeral directors offer? Maybe it’s a chicken & egg thing.

Moral of the story: make sure to leave written instructions for your funeral NOW.

 

[Emerald_Isle]

I am actually becoming a little upset about this. The position in Ireland where I’m from is that it differs from diocese to diocese and even parish to parish. Bishop Smith’s instructions have caused considerable controversy here. I would like to share with you the story of how we laid our mother to rest recently.

My mother was very devout. The only instruction she left was that she wanted to repose at home. We brought her home and everybody who wished to could view her remains. The priest came and we said some prayers over the coffin. As is usual in our family all the old photos came out and we shared our memories.

On a separate occasion we discussed with the priest what sort of service we would like. We chose from the readings he suggested. We then asked if we could, before Mass, bring to the altar some tokens of my mother’s life, including a much-used prayer book . Then we had the usual funeral mass and the priest gave a homily based on what we had told him about our mother. The fact is that he hadn’t known my mother and so what he said lacked a personal touch. When Mass was over my sister read the eulogy and I recited a piece of poetry about joy and sorrow. The good father did not object to any of this.

My mother’s death had come just a week after her brother had also died and his funeral was much the same. These funerals took place in different dioceses (not Bishop Smith’s).

My point is that although all this happened in the church it was kept separate from the Mass which was itself attended to with all due reverence. I do not understand why there should be any objection to this. At the moment in Ireland the Church is reeling from several scandals, pews are mostly empty on Sunday, vocations to the priesthood are down and the Church lost the most recent battle over abortion. It seems to me that in all these circumstances to quibble about the nature of funeral services shows a Church overly concerned with form and out of touch with its people. That would seem to run counter to what our Good Pope Francis is trying to do.

“Blessed are they who mourn for they shall be comforted”

 

[gracepoole]

I am actually becoming a little upset about this. The position in Ireland where I’m from is that it differs from diocese to diocese and even parish to parish. Bishop Smith’s instructions have caused considerable controversy here. I would like to share with you the story of how we laid our mother to rest recently.

My mother was very devout. The only instruction she left was that she wanted to repose at home. We brought her home and everybody who wished to could view her remains. The priest came and we said some prayers over the coffin. As is usual in our family all the old photos came out and we shared our memories.

On a separate occasion we discussed with the priest what sort of service we would like. We chose from the readings he suggested. We then asked if we could, before Mass, bring to the altar some tokens of my mother’s life, including a much-used prayer book . Then we had the usual funeral mass and the priest gave a homily based on what we had told him about our mother. The fact is that he hadn’t known my mother and so what he said lacked a personal touch. When Mass was over my sister read the eulogy and I recited a piece of poetry about joy and sorrow. The good father did not object to any of this.

My mother’s death had come just a week after her brother had also died and his funeral was much the same. These funerals took place in different dioceses (not Bishop Smith’s).

My point is that although all this happened in the church it was kept separate from the Mass which was itself attended to with all due reverence. I do not understand why there should be any objection to this. At the moment in Ireland the Church is reeling from several scandals, pews are mostly empty on Sunday, vocations to the priesthood are down and the Church lost the most recent battle over abortion. It seems to me that in all these circumstances to quibble about the nature of funeral services shows a Church overly concerned with form and out of touch with its people. That would seem to run counter to what our Good Pope Francis is trying to do.

“Blessed are they who mourn for they shall be comforted”

I’m so sorry for your loss. :grouphug:

People may crucify me for saying this (no pun intended), but when the Missal was revised recently, my brother (a devout Catholic) complained that in the midst of the great scandals facing the Church currently, quibbling about language was the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Whether one agrees with him or not, there certainly seems to be a series of significant and pressing issues that demand the Church’s time – perhaps eulogies should be lower on the list.

 

[oldcelt]

I’m so sorry for your loss. :grouphug:

People may crucify me for saying this (no pun intended), but when the Missal was revised recently, my brother (a devout Catholic) complained that in the midst of the great scandals facing the Church currently, quibbling about language was the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Whether one agrees with him or not, there certainly seems to be a series of significant and pressing issues that demand the Church’s time – perhaps eulogies should be lower on the list.

Behavior such as you mention is common among all bureaucracies. If you have a serious issue, divert attention by addressing a series of lesser subjects.

I gave both of my parent’s eulogies at a time when I was a practicing Catholic, and I do not recall any controversy surrounding them.

 

[illinidiva]

I agree with the statements above. It seems that eulogies can be important part of the funeral Mass. My grandfather also died recently and I thought the service was tastefully done. It included two eulogies right after the initial blessing when the casket was brought in. During the rest of the Mass, the priest went out of his way to explain the Mass and make outsiders feel welcome. He also mentioned that elderly people didn’t need to kneel for the Eucharistic prayer. The homily, despite not knowing about my grandfather, had some nice insights.

And lots of these nitpicky things seem trivial in light of the scandals in the Church. Let’s confront those head on rather than the side issues

 

[pnewton]

How do you regiment that? The expression of grief varies from culture to culture. If someone cannot help but make a keening sound, they can’t help it.

 

[pnewton]

General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
382. At the Funeral Mass there should, as a rule, be a short homily, **but never **a eulogy of any kind.
Bishop Smith didn’t forbid anything. He simply is enforcing the rubrics that already existed.

Yes and no. The rubrics address the liturgy, not the Church. Perhaps one solution a priest could make, if his bishop hasn’t prohibited any eulogy in the Church, is to have a eulogy before the Mass starts. Give some family member ten or fifteen minutes before the start of Mass and then process in. Likewise, if something was said after the dismissal, then it would not be governed by the rubrics.

Eulogies are not something people do just for kicks. There is a human need to confront our grief and this is a way many people find closure. The pastoral approach should try and help all, as much as possible, deal with their sorrow at the death of a loved one. Mass is one way, the best way for Catholics, to deal with this, but it is not the only source of comfort for all.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Behavior such as you mention is common among all bureaucracies. If you have a serious issue, divert attention by addressing a series of lesser subjects.

I gave both of my parent’s eulogies at a time when I was a practicing Catholic, and I do not recall any controversy surrounding them.

its a serious issue when our God is being demeaned by heretics expecting to be allowed come in to the house of God and be give a soap box during the sacrifice that is the mass.

no faithful catholic who understands what is happening during the mass would demean Jesus by expecting to be allowed push him to one side while they eulogise.

The Mass is the most perfect form of prayer!"
(Pope Paul VI)

For each Mass we hear with devotion, Our Lord sends a saint to comfort us at death (revelation of Christ to St. Gertrude the great).

St/blessed Padre Pio, the stigmatic priest, said, the world could exist more easily without the sun than without the Mass.

The Cure’ d’ Ars, St. Jean Vianney said, if we knew the value of the Mass we would die of joy.

A great doctor of the Church, St. Anselm, declares that a single Mass offered for oneself during life may be worth more than a thousand celebrated for the same intention after death. St. Leonard of Port Maurice supports this statement by saying that one Mass before death may be more profitable than many after it.

“The Holy Mass would be of greater profit if people had it offered in their lifetime, rather than having it celebrated for the relief of their souls after death.” (Pope Benedict XV).

Once, St. Teresa was overwhelmed with God’s Goodness and asked Our Lord, “How can I thank you?” Our Lord replied, “ATTEND ONE MASS.”

The Blessed Virgin Mary once told Her faithful servant Alain: “My Son so loves those who assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that, if it were necessary He would die for them as many times as they’ve heard Masses.”

The Mass is Calvary continued.
2. Every Mass is worth as much as the sacrifice of Our Lord’s life, sufferings and death.
3. Holy Mass is the most powerful atonement for your sins.
4. At the hour of death the Masses you have heard will be your greatest consolement.
5. Every Mass will go with you to judgement and plead for pardon.
6. At Mass you can diminish more or less temporal punishment due to your sins, according to your fervor.
7. Assisting devoutly at Holy Mass you render to the humanity of Our Lord the greatest homage.
8. He supplies for many of your negligences and omissions.
9. He forgives the venial sins which you have not confessed. The power of Satan over you is diminished.
10. You afford the souls in Purgatory the greatest possible relief.
11. One Mass heard during life will be of more benefit to you than many heard for you after your death.
12. You are preserved from dangers and misfortunes which otherwise might have befallen you. You shorten your Purgatory.
13. Every Mass wins you a higher degree of glory in Heaven.
14. You receive the Priest’s blessing which Our Lord ratifies in Heaven.
15. You kneel amidst a multitude of Holy Angels, who are present at the adorable Sacrifice with reverential awe.
16. You are blessed in your temporal goods and affairs.

In eternity, we shall fully realize that it was certainly worthwhile to have assisted at Holy Mass daily

 

[oldcelt]

its a serious issue when our God is being demeaned by heretics expecting to be allowed come in to the house of God and be give a soap box during the sacrifice that is the mass.

no faithful catholic who understands what is happening during the mass would demean Jesus by expecting to be allowed push him to one side while they eulogise.

I left the portion of your response that had something to do with the OP and will address that.

First, I seriously doubt that most loved ones would be considered to be heretics.
Second, the eulogies that I delivered were given after the mass had ended just prior to recession.
Third, the priest delivered the homily and used his expertise to speak to the subjects of Catholic life and death, grief, etc. As always, Father Paul did an excellent job.
Fourth, I spoke about my parents after the mass, My field of expertise. Both were well received and, I hope, added a personal aspect to the moments before we escorted our parents to their graves.

So, no one was pushed aside, the mass was not disrupted and nothing was demeaned. A family merely shared a few moments of memory after the official service. A few tears…a few laughs…in remembrance of two Catholics who had spent 54 years together.

John

 

[QuestingKnight]

I’m so sorry for your loss. :grouphug:

People may crucify me for saying this (no pun intended), but when the Missal was revised recently, my brother (a devout Catholic) complained that in the midst of the great scandals facing the Church currently, quibbling about language was the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Whether one agrees with him or not, there certainly seems to be a series of significant and pressing issues that demand the Church’s time – perhaps eulogies should be lower on the list.

Both issues are important; one does not eliminate another. The missal is more important; how and what we pray affects what we believe.

Lay people expressing their opinions at relgious ceremonies is a bad idea, full stop. The speeches tend to the sentimental and may even contain heresy. Lay relatives aren’t trained speakers; odds are, they’ll do it badly.

So a person’s funeral, a person who needs our prayers to get out of purgatory, is left bereft when people are distracted by some mawkish sentiments which may even imply that he’s in Heaven! Disaster!

Eulogies are for the living. We should be directing our prayers to God, for the dead.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Behavior such as you mention is common among all bureaucracies. If you have a serious issue, divert attention by addressing a series of lesser subjects

this is the part of your post I was referring to. you trivialise the mass in your post by calling it a lesser subject. nothing to a catholic is lesser than the mass. it is the same as being at calvary.
that is why I posted the saints quotes about the value of the mass.

First, I seriously doubt that most loved ones would be considered to be heretics

I think you need to look up the definition of heretic, it has nothing or at least not the way you mean it, about burying someone you love.
i’m referring to the general way heretics and the secular world seems to believe they have the right to define anything to do with a funeral mass.
it always saddens me to see people arrive at a funeral mass then proceed to go to communion so that the chief mourners will see them. even though they don’t believe in Jesus present in the Eucharist. how totally disrespectful can you get, to those that do. while complaining that they should have rights to give a eulogy
the rubics of the mass in Ireland say no eulogies get over it.
in the case of your parents I know nothing of them and was not posting about their specific funerals. may the lord have mercy on their souls.
Jesus again to Catholics is always physically present in church so a eulogy always pushes him to one side.

 

[Phemie]

the rubics of the mass in Ireland say no eulogies get over it.

The rubric quoted is directly related to the priest and his homily. The same rubric is present in the US *Order of Christian Funerals *but there is still a rubric that allows someone to speak of the deceased between the Prayer after Communion and the Final Commendation. We don’t know if the same rubric exists in the Irish Order of Christian Funerals. Since it ‘allows’ and doesn’t ‘mandate’, the Bishop is free to not allow it to happen but you can’t just stand there and throw ‘rubrics’ at the person to whom you’re responding when we don’t know what their national ritual allows.

 

[Phemie]

saveusfromhell:

while complaining that they should have rights to give a eulogy.
The rubics of the mass in Ireland say no eulogies get over it.

You can’t lob ‘rubrics’ at someone’s head without knowing exactly what the rubrics say in the Irish “Order of Christian Funerals.” The rubric quoted above applies to the priest regarding his homily. The same rubric is in the US “Order of Christian Funerals” but there is still another rubric that allows for a loved one to speak of the deceased (read, do a eulogy) between the Prayer after Communion and the Final Commendation. We don’t know if the same thing exists in the Irish Rite.

The fact that it’s allowed in the US doesn’t mean it has to be done. The bishop can certainly say “no,” as he did in Ireland, but at this moment there is no world-wide ban on eulogies in the Catholic funeral liturgy.