Irish priests say they will disobey new confession box law on child abuse

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irishcentral.com/news/Irish-priests-say-they-will-disobey-new-confession-box-law-on-child-abuse-149029005.html#ixzz1tMAr1AA5
Irish priests have vowed to defy a new law forcing them to report details of sexual abuse revealed in the confessional box.
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Ireland’s Justice Minister Alan Shatter is to introduce new legislation which will force the clergy to reveal all details disclosed in confession.
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But priests have vowed to defy the law despite the threat of a 10-year jail sentence after the introduction of the mandatory reporting legislation.
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I can honestly say I haven’t heard of this law. If this is true, which, considering the source, is likely, then it presents yet another attack on freedom of religion.
 
A couple things:
  1. This law assumes that the child abusers will confess their crimes at all to a priest.
  2. It assumes that the confessional was part of the cover up, which none of the reports have said.
  3. This law is inconsistent: why are the priests required to report child abuse, and not murder, theft, embezzlement, etc? I’m not sure of the statistic, but I assume that there are more murders and thefts per year than child abuse.
  4. If this law continues, then the abusers will know that the Church is required by law to report the crime (even if they don’t). This will take away their only chance to talk to someone about their problems; the priest can talk to the abuser, ask him to turn himself in. Not to mention, if the abusers don’t go to confession, then that puts their eternal soul in peril.
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
irishcentral.com/news/Irish-priests-say-they-will-disobey-new-confession-box-law-on-child-abuse-149029005.html#ixzz1tMAr1AA5

I can honestly say I haven’t heard of this law. If this is true, which, considering the source, is likely, then it presents yet another attack on freedom of religion.
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It was bound to happen as a result of all the coverups and shuffling of abusive priests, and I think many will disagree that it’s an attaack on freedom of religion. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened in the US as well. In fact, I’m actually shocked that more voters aren’t lobbying for it, especially those whose life focus is on protecting children.
 
Many (though not most) of the Roman Catholic clergy in Ireland have caused a huge amount of damage to the faith. This latest act of deliberate defiance will have the child sodomites of Ireland breathing a sigh of relief while hundreds of the faithful will yet again come under attack by the media. These priests aren’t fit for purpose.
 
Scott the law does not assume that they will, it’s if they do
The law in Ireland will not require priests to report civil laws broken, but penal laws it will. Breaking the seal of confession is an excommunication offense for a priest of course they are not going to break it.

Ricky your comment is petty.how can you assume many priests are guilty,it’s about 3 per cent . in fact one of your crowd recently said if they were put under the spotlight for child abuse they would expect the same results to come back .
there again the media is not interested in breaking other christian demoninations as they not sure themselves what they believe
 
They tried to pass a similar measure several months ago. I will repost what I posted then. All the priests have to do is to make sure that the penitent’s right to an anonymous confession is met. Then they can comply with the law thusly:

Priest to police: I need to report that someone confessed to me that he or she had inappropriate contact with a child.

Police: what is this abuser’s name?

Priest: we don’t ask for names in the Confessional

Police: was this one of your parishioners?

Priest: I don’t know.

Police: didn’t you recognize him?

Priest: No

Police: Can you give us a description?

Priest: I only saw him through a screen.

Police: well, when did the abuse happen?

Priest: he didn’t say

Police: when did the Confession happen?

Priest: I hear Confessions every Saturday afternoon
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
I can honestly say I haven’t heard of this law. If this is true, which, considering the source, is likely, then it presents yet another attack on freedom of religion.
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I think this may be some kind of an attempt to a counter an old document called “Crimen Solicitations” that addressed this same issue:

advancedchristianity.com/Pages/CBS/CBS.htm

The Catholic Church already addressed this, by implimenting new proceedures that were put in place after the scandal. Anyhow, how can they inforce the new law? Post 5 shows how it is impossible.
 
only a matter of time till a priest gets set up, the crimes that the priest has to report is not limited to child abuse, the minister for justice yesterday claimed the law already has in effect made it mandatory for a priest to report any common laws broken.
 
Corki said:
They tried to pass a similar measure several months ago. I will repost what I posted then. All the priests have to do is to make sure that the penitent’s right to an anonymous confession is met. Then they can comply with the law thusly:
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Right. They’d have to do it without lying though. And many priests know the name of their parishioner and what they look like, many have face-to-face confessions too, and of course they’d know when they came. Also, it may be another priest who is coming to confession.

Police: what is the abuser’s name?
Priest: we don’t ask for names in the confessional
Police: do you know the abuser’s name?
Priest: (that would be a yes or a no).

The priest would be better off just saying he can’t devulge it, and live with the consequences, rather than create a tangled web of lies if he does know the abuser.
 
Corki said:
They tried to pass a similar measure several months ago. I will repost what I posted then. All the priests have to do is to make sure that the penitent’s right to an anonymous confession is met. Then they can comply with the law thusly:

Priest to police: I need to report that someone confessed to me that he or she had inappropriate contact with a child.

Police: what is this abuser’s name?

Priest: we don’t ask for names in the Confessional

Police: was this one of your parishioners?

Priest: I don’t know.

Police: didn’t you recognize him?

Priest: No

Police: Can you give us a description?

Priest: I only saw him through a screen.

Police: well, when did the abuse happen?

Priest: he didn’t say

Police: when did the Confession happen?

Priest: I hear Confessions every Saturday afternoon
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Huh, you make a good point. Perhaps I should have thought this through before coming to such hasty conclusions. It makes sense when you think about it. He would report it, but give nothing of value, because he honestly wouldn’t know anything of value (if he set up an anonymous confession).

My other concern would be: Would the priest be breaking the Seal of the Confession by telling the police this? I know the Seal exists, but I don’t know to what extent or what information the priest can divulge without breaking it.
 
All he has to do is keep his mouth shut.

How would anyone know who confessed what in the Confessional? And in any case, it would be hearsay evidence - the priest is not a witness, and the nature of Confession is not such that he would know any details.
 
Doesn’t breaking the seal of confession lead to excommunication?
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
Huh, you make a good point. Perhaps I should have thought this through before coming to such hasty conclusions. It makes sense when you think about it. He would report it, but give nothing of value, because he honestly wouldn’t know anything of value (if he set up an anonymous confession).

My other concern would be: Would the priest be breaking the Seal of the Confession by telling the police this? I know the Seal exists, but I don’t know to what extent or what information the priest can divulge without breaking it.
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The seal of confession is broken when you betray the penitent by word or deed. Priests use vague examples from Confessions all the time in homilies. As long as it’s not traceable back to the penitent, it doesn’t break the seal.
 
CatholicTrekkie said:
irishcentral.com/news/Irish-priests-say-they-will-disobey-new-confession-box-law-on-child-abuse-149029005.html#ixzz1tMAr1AA5

I can honestly say I haven’t heard of this law. If this is true, which, considering the source, is likely, then it presents yet another attack on freedom of religion.
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**They don’t need to disobey.

Sins of very grave nature are only allowed to be confesed and absolved by a BISHOP!!!**

I read this in Moral Theolgy, Heribert Jone I think!
 
Corki said:
The seal of confession is broken when you betray the penitent by word or deed. Priests use vague examples from Confessions all the time in homilies. As long as it’s not traceable back to the penitent, it doesn’t break the seal.
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Ahh, ok, I see. Makes sense. Thank you for your help.

I think I mixed up being compelled to testify against a penitent with being required to report abuse, which are two completely different things. Moreover, even if a priest did testify, he could give the same vague answer (though, I don’t know how the priest or district attorney would find out if the abuser went to confession otherwise).
 
UHC said:
**They don’t need to disobey.

Sins of very grave nature are only allowed to be confesed and absolved** by a BISHOP!!!

I read this in Moral Theolgy, Heribert Jone I think!
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I believe that only applies to sins which incur an excommunication, i.e. abortion, desecration of the Eucharist, etc. Otherwise, any mortal sin can be absolved by a priest.
 
UHC said:
**They don’t need to disobey.

Sins of grave nature are only allowed to be confesed and absolved** by a BISHOP!!!

I read this in Moral Theolgy, Heribert Jone I think!
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This is not true. All sins may be absolved by any priests with facuties unless the sin is specially reserved. Sins resulting in excommunication, for example, usually are reserved to the Bishop. Some sins by priests are reserved to the Pope.
 
UHC said:
**They don’t need to disobey.

Sins of very grave nature are only allowed to be confesed and absolved** by a BISHOP!!!

I read this in Moral Theolgy, Heribert Jone I think!
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Pretty certain that’s not true. I think you’re thinking of wanting an excommunication reversed. That requires a bishop and is due to grave sin, but not all grave sins.
 
Farsight001 said:
Pretty certain that’s not true. I think you’re thinking of wanting an excommunication reversed. That requires a bishop and is due to grave sin, but not all grave sins.
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No, I am pretty sure; some really bad, grave sins. I can’t remember exactly but sins of sexual nature where a minor was involved are to be referred to bishops.
I have the book here but no time to look it up.
 
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