Irish priests say they will disobey new confession box law on child abuse

[Corki]

Pardon my ignorance here if I am mistaken, but I thought that law of the Church had a qualifier: "the priest may never require that the penitent reveal his/her sins to any third party [as a condition for *absolution

]".

I never did come across a definitive (i.e. magisterial) answer to whether a confessor may impose a *penance *consisting of revealing one’s sins to civil authorities. I’ve seen conflicting comments here on CAF when it comes to that question.

Here’s the canon.

Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.

It does not add the qualifier “as a condition for absolution”. It says “in any manner and for any reason”.

 

[pepipop]

The Sacrament of Confession has no relationship to law enforcement or prosecution. I’m surprised that any Catholics on this forum would seriously think that there is a relationship, and that these same Catholics think that non-Catholics could claim or establish a relationship.

Of course there isn’t any relationship. However, if a penitent was truly sorry and did not wish to sin again, a priest ‘could’ advise that he go to the police and/or seek professional assistance as it is not an easy condition to cure (biologically) and the consequences of his sin affect an innocent as well as the penitent. I do not know if priests do advise alcoholics wishing to stop drinking, i.e. to seek help with an organisation, for example the AA? A priest said at a sermon recently that priests act as our spiritual fathers, and a father is best placed to give advice.

 

[SpeakInSilence]

I can’t believe people who identify as Catholic would even go along with this law. Confession is a highly intimate thing. Can you think of all the things you confessed to a priest, would you want any of that to be used against you for any reason?

I can understand why many people would want this, but for the love God,
what else will they do to destroy the relationships priest even have left with their congregations?

 

[pepipop]

I can’t believe people who identify as Catholic would even go along with this law. Confession is a highly intimate thing. Can you think of all the things you confessed to a priest, would you want any of that to be used against you for any reason?

I can understand why many people would want this, but for the love God,
what else will they do to destroy the relationships priest even have left with their congregations?

Exactly! I, personally, think it’s all propaganda hogwash, and another attempt to try to infer that the CC is always covering things up. Hitting the sacrament of confession, is just another way to mock the church.

 

[Ana_v]

Here’s the canon.

Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor

(emphasis mine)

I agree with the observation you gave.

However, I don’t see how a confessor assigning a penance that consists of the penitent turning himself in to authorities, constitutes a confessor betraying the penitent – it is not the confessor who is turning the penitent in or disclosing the penitent’s sins to anyone. Rather, the confessor is relying upon the penitent’s *free will * for the disclosure of the crime to the proper authorities.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Of course there isn’t any relationship. However, if a penitent was truly sorry and did not wish to sin again, a priest ‘could’ advise that he go to the police and/or seek professional assistance as it is not an easy condition to cure (biologically) and the consequences of his sin affect an innocent as well as the penitent.

Priests advise. They suggest. They do not and cannot insist. And certainly they cannot insist on turning oneself in as a condition of absolution. That is strictly forbidden.

Every Catholic should know these basic facts about the Sacrament of Penance. If such Catholics were not well catechized about that, then as adults they need to take responsibility for their adult education as Catholics, and not default to whatever ignorance non-Catholics have about the realm of the sacraments.

 

[Corki]

Priests advise. They suggest. They do not and cannot insist. And certainly they cannot insist on turning oneself in as a condition of absolution. That is strictly forbidden.

Every Catholic should know these basic facts about the Sacrament of Penance. If such Catholics were not well catechized about that, then as adults they need to take responsibility for their adult education as Catholics, and not default to whatever ignorance non-Catholics have about the realm of the sacraments.

To the bolded: I shudder to think how many sinners have stayed away from the Sacrament of Confession due to a misunderstanding in this regard. The idea that someone might not seek forgiveness out of the fear that he/she would be required to face criminal penalties brings me to tears.

Yes, it is vitally important that children are protected but there is NOTHING more important than reconciling souls to God.

 

[pepipop]

Priests advise. They suggest. They do not and cannot insist. And certainly they cannot insist on turning oneself in as a condition of absolution. That is strictly forbidden.

Every Catholic should know these basic facts about the Sacrament of Penance. If such Catholics were not well catechized about that, then as adults they need to take responsibility for their adult education as Catholics, and not default to whatever ignorance non-Catholics have about the realm of the sacraments.

Yes, I agree.

 

[JimG]

Most priests are well acquainted with the members of there congregations.Pretending that a priest isn’t aware of to whom he is speaking is stretching the limits of credibility! I agree with the sanctity of the confessional box but perhaps it should be a condition of absolution in cases of child rape and sexual abuse that the penitent must turn himself in as a condition of that absolution.If he turns himself in he is granted absolution.If he does not hand himself over he has shown by his actions that he is not truly penitent and may commit the crime again.The priest should in all good conscience should have the protection of vulnerable children as a priority and report the paedophile.

“Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

I am pretty certain that having heard 15 or 20 confessions in the confessional before weekday Mass, not only is my parish priest unaware of the identity of the penitents, he doesn’t even remember what sins were confessed by the time he gets back to the sacristy to prepare for Mass. If a parish has a truly anonymous confessional–as it should–and a lot of penitents–as it should, even a priest who is well acquainted with the penitent in ordinary parish life would be unable to even recall his sins.

And the seal of confession is of course inviolable.

 

[jmcrae]

The priest may keep his “mouth shut” to the Child Protection Services of Ireland ( how brave of him ) but he will not be able to keep his “mouth shut” when he has to give an account of his actions to Christ!

It is Christ who established the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) for the salvation of souls. It was never established for the purpose of prosecuting criminals.

What about Christians who don’t have any Sacrament of Reconciliation? Who tattles on them, when they confess their sins directly to Christ? Does Christ inform on them to the police?

If not, then why should the priest (whose role in the Confessional is to be a vehicle of communication between the penitent and Christ) be required do so?

 

[latin_rite]

They tried to pass a similar measure several months ago. I will repost what I posted then. All the priests have to do is to make sure that the penitent’s right to an anonymous confession is met. Then they can comply with the law thusly:

Priest to police: I need to report that someone confessed to me that he or she had inappropriate contact with a child.

Police: what is this abuser’s name?

Priest: we don’t ask for names in the Confessional

Police: was this one of your parishioners?

Priest: I don’t know.

Police: didn’t you recognize him?

Priest: No

Police: Can you give us a description?

Priest: I only saw him through a screen.

Police: well, when did the abuse happen?

Priest: he didn’t say

Police: when did the Confession happen?

Priest: I hear Confessions every Saturday afternoon

Or it could go like this.

Priest to police: I need to report that someone confessed to me that he or she had inappropriate contact with a child.
Police. Whats was his name?

Priest. Jo Blow.

Police. Thanks. Aren’t you worried about the seal of the confessional being broken?

Priest. God will understand.

 

[latin_rite]

I am pretty certain that having heard 15 or 20 confessions in the confessional before weekday Mass, not only is my parish priest unaware of the identity of the penitents, he doesn’t even remember what sins were confessed by the time he gets back to the sacristy to prepare for Mass. If a parish has a truly anonymous confessional–as it should–and a lot of penitents–as it should, even a priest who is well acquainted with the penitent in ordinary parish life would be unable to even recall his sins.

And the seal of confession is of course inviolable.

I am sure some of the more shocking ones stand out.

 

[Corki]

Or it could go like this.

Priest to police: I need to report that someone confessed to me that he or she had inappropriate contact with a child.
Police. Whats was his name?

Priest. Jo Blow.

Police. Thanks. Aren’t you worried about the seal of the confessional being broken?

Priest. God will understand.

Are you suggeting giving the police a fake name or that the priest is willing to be excommunicated in order to appease a civil authority?

 

[latin_rite]

Are you suggeting giving the police a fake name or that the priest is willing to be excommunicated in order to appease a civil authority?

I’m saying he should risk excommunication in order to stop a child from being sexualy assaulted.

 

[Corki]

I’m saying he should risk excommunication in order to stop a child from being sexualy assaulted.

You can’t be absolved of a future sin. He would be excommunicated (risk level = 100%) for revealing someone’s past sin not stopping anything in the future.

I must say I’m surprised that this is your position. You self-idenify as a traditional Catholic. Traditionalist are usually more serious about the Sacraments.

 

[Rence]

I can’t believe people who identify as Catholic would even go along with this law. Confession is a highly intimate thing. Can you think of all the things you confessed to a priest, would you want any of that to be used against you for any reason?

I can understand why many people would want this, but for the love God,
what else will they do to destroy the relationships priest even have left with their congregations?

Being sexually abused is a highly intimate thing…at thing the victim hasn’t consented to. It’s not about the abuser, it’s all about helping the victim and preventing more victims from being made by the abuser. Sorry, but this law was only a matter of time. It’s only a matter of time before it comes to the US, and people who identify as Catholics won’t be the only ones in favor of it.

 

[Rence]

You can’t be absolved of a future sin. He would be excommunicated (risk level = 100%) for revealing someone’s past sin not stopping anything in the future.

If the abuser is caught and prosecuted, yes, it will stop the abuser from making more child-victims in the future.

 

[JimG]

I am sure some of the more shocking ones stand out.

I’m sure that most sexual sins are not shocking to a priest. They are no doubt some of the most commonly confessed.

I’ve gone to confession in my own parish and other parishes as well. In every case, the confessional is entirely anonymous. I’m thinking that if someone were to confess a serious crime, he would go to an unfamiliar priest in another parish in an entirely anonymous confessional. The law is pointless.

And I’m surprised that any Catholic or any Christian would advocate for breach of confidentiality between penitent and confessor. If a priest can be forced to disclose information to state authorities, he can be forced to disclosed any other information that the government may want, such as disloyalty to the government.

That turns the priest into an agent of the state; that’s just dangerous.

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

I am sure some of the more shocking ones stand out.

I agree. Someone confessing to sodomising a child is bound to make even the most jaded priest sit up and take notice. By the way what is the penance for Child sodomy?

 

[SpeakInSilence]

Being sexually abused is a highly intimate thing…at thing the victim hasn’t consented to. It’s not about the abuser, it’s all about helping the victim and preventing more victims from being made by the abuser. Sorry, but this law was only a matter of time. It’s only a matter of time before it comes to the US, and people who identify as Catholics won’t be the only ones in favor of it.

We have to protect the sacraments, we have to protect the Tradition, but if we allow this, where does it end?

Will a priest be shaken down for any kind of information that can lead to the arrest of someone? Priest already have the stigma of being known as child molesters, but now they have to be associated as rats, and police informants?

I know it the duty for a Priest to report anything heard outside of a confessional booth that could be used to help the police; however this must not be done.

This is an act to try and destroy any kind of safety an individual can feel in a Church.

I’m sorry, this is wrong.