Irrefutable Proof against being born gay?

[Courage_Married]

I figured this group is as good as any to advertise a new group.

Today I created a social group in the groups section called Courage/Encourage. If you are any of the following:
a) a member of Courage/Encourage (either in a group or online)
b) following the church’s teaching on homosexuality
c) close family member or friend of a person that is
feel free to join.

I have set the group up as moderator approval required to join and posts are only viewable by members. Feel free to join.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I figured this group is as good as any to advertise a new group.

Today I created a social group in the groups section called Courage/Encourage. If you are any of the following:
a) a member of Courage/Encourage (either in a group or online)
b) following the church’s teaching on homosexuality
c) close family member or friend of a person that is
feel free to join.

I have set the group up as moderator approval required to join and posts are only viewable by members. Feel free to join.

Thanks and also consider joining this group:
forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=205
Prayers & Support for Christians with SSA

This group is exclusively for those who struggle with same sex attraction (SSA) and want to live chastely, and for those who wish to support them in prayer and love.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

When are single persons called to live in chastity? Is this Biblical? Do you mean monks, nuns, and priests? Or do you mean the admonition against fornication? Is homosexuality “fornication”? Why is homosexuality a sexual sin?

You do understand that the catholic church teaches that any sex outside of marriage (between a man and a woman) is sinful, don’t you?

 

[Courage_Married]

Thanks and also consider joining this group:
forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=205
Prayers & Support for Christians with SSA

This group is exclusively for those who struggle with same sex attraction (SSA) and want to live chastely, and for those who wish to support them in prayer and love.

I searched to see if there were any groups like the ones I created, must have missed that one. Well if people think I have created a duplicate group I can delete mine. If people think the group I created has a use I will keep it around.

 

[Kolbe300]

The term “horrifyingly severe physical handicap” being bracketted in the same sentence as homosexual in the manner in which you present it grieves me. Maybe it is a poor choice of words on your part? Maybe it is delicate sensitivity on mine?

Maybe some people do consider homosexualiy a horrifyingly severe physical handicap:shrug: There are said to be 2 classes of people in the world: those who constantly divide the people of the world into 2 classes, and those who do not, “Them & Us”.

It would be a good thing if each man concerned himself more with the history of his own nature than with the history of the deeds of others.

I’m afraid you aren’t understanding what I’m saying AT ALL. That could very well be my fault in how things are worded. I’m not comparing “handicaps” even remotely. I don’t see homosexuality as a handicap. I believe some people are born with a homosexual orientation, just like some people are born with blue eyes and some are born with blond hair and others are born with severe handicaps. What I was comparing is the difference in REACTION to these things, how many think that one can mysteriously be in God’s plan while another cannot. That’s it, period. I mean no offense to you or to a person who actually has a severe handicap. In my opinion, some handicaps ARE horrifying in their severity. That, however, is NOT a judgement of that person. And they have nothing to do with homosexuality. I apologize if you were hurt by my words. I don’t think you are understanding what I was saying and that could have been my fault.

Peace!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

You do understand that the catholic church teaches that any sex outside of marriage (between a man and a woman) is sinful, don’t you?

The Catholic Church teaches any sex that precludes the possibility of procreation is (possibly) sinful. The Catholic Church also teaches any form of sexual intimacy outside marriage is sinful (holding hands, kissing, etc.) because it may lead to temptation and sexual intercourse.

 

[Kolbe300]

Are you only making a statistical comment here? Marrying at 50 isn’t “normal,” then either. Or having a child at 40. Do you respond to those activities the same way? What, really, do statistical norms have to do with morality? Even sexual morality?

I was indeed making a statistical comment. A homosexual orientation isn’t the “norm”, just like marrying after fifty and countless other things aren’t the “norm”. My homosexual orientation is as normal to me as the need to breathe. That doesn’t make it statistically normal. What response is it exactly that you believe I’m having here?

Statistics, by the way, have nothing to do with sexual morality. Somehow, my entire point in the past couple posts weren’t understood at all. I’ll have to work on that.

Peace!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

I was indeed making a statistical comment. A homosexual orientation isn’t the “norm”, just like marrying after fifty and countless other things aren’t the “norm”.

 

[larkin31]

You do understand that the catholic church teaches that any sex outside of marriage (between a man and a woman) is sinful, don’t you?

Yes.

But I asked why? And is any sex between married partners acceptable? I am asking the WHY of the doctrine.

 

[larkin31]

…The Catholic Church also teaches any form of sexual intimacy outside marriage is sinful (holding hands, kissing, etc.) because it may lead to temptation and sexual intercourse.

What??

Which catechism is this? No holding hands or kissing outside of marriage? I will assume that you mean romantic hand holding or kissing.

 

[larkin31]

I was indeed making a statistical comment. A homosexual orientation isn’t the “norm”, just like marrying after fifty and countless other things aren’t the “norm”. My homosexual orientation is as normal to me as the need to breathe. That doesn’t make it statistically normal. What response is it exactly that you believe I’m having here?

Statistics, by the way, have nothing to do with sexual morality. Somehow, my entire point in the past couple posts weren’t understood at all. I’ll have to work on that.

Peace!

yeah, the word “normal” has multiple connotations and is often moved from the statistical realm to the judgmental/moral one without proper notification or explanation.

 

[onmyknees]

Old Today, 2:37 am
KEVIN WILCOX KEVIN WILCOX is offline
Regular Member

Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 696
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Irrefutable Proof against being born gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN WILCOX View Post

Kevin, We as Catholic Christians are called to love our neighbors as ourselves. When we love God we want to obey Him and follow all His teachings even if these teachings mean that we have to suffer. When we follow these Truths we are set free. I love my faith so much that I just want to share it with everyone so all souls will have eternal life.

Stoning, sexual mutilation, the death penalty and imprisonment of homosexuals - the Church just loved the “faith so much that it just wanted to share it with everyone.” The Church gave its blessing to this persecution, this seperation in suffering and to this sorrowful litany added refusal of the sacraments.

These were not teachings of the Catholic Church. We are all sinners and yes even some of the popes made bad choices and sinned but the teachings on faith and morals(dogmas and doctrines have never changed.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

What??

Which catechism is this? No holding hands or kissing outside of marriage? I will assume that you mean romantic hand holding or kissing.

“Any physical actions that would stimulate or cause arousal…avoid anything physical that can stimulate and arouse you or the other person to desire something more sexually…Romance and friendship build intimacy. They can also build sexual desire…a man and a woman cannot be ‘close friends’ without there being romantic developments. Friendship leads to intimacy…You also want to be careful about your dating time going on too long” (Anthony Buono, Founder & President of www.avemariasingles.com & www.roadtocana.com)

 

[onmyknees]

QUOTE=larkin31;6360628]When are single persons called to live in chastity? Is this Biblical? Do you mean monks, nuns, and priests? Or do you mean the admonition against fornication? Is homosexuality “fornication”? Why is homosexuality a sexual sin?

Yes, those who choose to be monks, nuns, brothers, and priests take vows of chastity. Single people are called to live in chastity because sexual relations are only for a married man and a women. It has two purposes; the unitive of the husband and wife and procreation. Mutual masturbation and oral foreplay that does not end with intercourse are grave sins for the married. Homosexual relations are wrong because it is not natural, and not procreative. Sodomy and solo masturbation are grave sins for everyone.

Romans1:24-27
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

 

[onmyknees]

onmyknees;6360260:

This wasn’t addressed to me, but I wish to reply to it: Some folks (lots of folks) want justice and fulfillment on earth rather than only in heaven.

Our purpose here is to get ourselves and others to heaven by following the teachings of the Jesus and His Church. The Church is always guided by the Holy Spirit when teaching on faith and morals.

John16:12
“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Old Today, 2:37 am
KEVIN WILCOX KEVIN WILCOX is offline
Regular Member

Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 696
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Irrefutable Proof against being born gay?
onmyknees;6360260:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN WILCOX View Post

Kevin, We as Catholic Christians are called to love our neighbors as ourselves. When we love God we want to obey Him and follow all His teachings even if these teachings mean that we have to suffer. When we follow these Truths we are set free. I love my faith so much that I just want to share it with everyone so all souls will have eternal life.

Stoning, sexual mutilation, the death penalty and imprisonment of homosexuals - the Church just loved the “faith so much that it just wanted to share it with everyone.” The Church gave its blessing to this persecution, this seperation in suffering and to this sorrowful litany added refusal of the sacraments.

These were not teachings of the Catholic Church. We are all sinners and yes even some of the popes made bad choices and sinned but the teachings on faith and morals(dogmas and doctrines have never changed.

Starting in the 12th century, homosexuals were persecuted, tortured, castrated, and burned to death on a regular basis in Catholic controlled Europe. The origins of the derogatory term “******” lies in the practices of the Inquisition, which bound those accused of homosexuality and piled them as fuel at the feet of those burned for heresy and witchcraft, since homosexuals were not considered worthy of the dignity of being burned standing up.
The Catholic Church (unlike the Episcopal Church) has not offered an official apology for its part in perpetrating anti-gay prejudice and persecution. The Catholic Catechism condemns homosexual acts as a “grave depravity”, “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to natural law.”
In 1992 Vatican 2 officially rejected the concept of lesbian and gay “human rights” asserting that there is “no right” to homosexuality.

AND YET!

1991 NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that ‘maybe from 23% - 58% of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation.’

Richard Sipe, a psychologist and former priest told the Boston Globe, “If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually orientated, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the Church’s operation…It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it’s very much against the tradition of the Church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation’s not going to solve the problem.”

 

[hellopeople]

onmyknees;6363743:

Old Today, 2:37 am
KEVIN WILCOX KEVIN WILCOX is offline
Regular Member

Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 696
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Irrefutable Proof against being born gay?

Starting in the 12th century, homosexuals were persecuted, tortured, castrated, and burned to death on a regular basis in Catholic controlled Europe. The origins of the derogatory term “******” lies in the practices of the Inquisition, which bound those accused of homosexuality and piled them as fuel at the feet of those burned for heresy and witchcraft, since homosexuals were not considered worthy of the dignity of being burned standing up.
The Catholic Church (unlike the Episcopal Church) has not offered an official apology for its part in perpetrating anti-gay prejudice and persecution. The Catholic Catechism condemns homosexual acts as a “grave depravity”, “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to natural law.”
In 1992 Vatican 2 officially rejected the concept of lesbian and gay “human rights” asserting that there is “no right” to homosexuality.

AND YET!

1991 NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that ‘maybe from 23% - 58% of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation.’

Richard Sipe, a psychologist and former priest told the Boston Globe, “If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually orientated, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the Church’s operation…It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it’s very much against the tradition of the Church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation’s not going to solve the problem.”

This seems to make sense actually that a lot of priests are gay. If I was a faithful Catholic, who was gay, and wanted to try my hardest to keep with Catholic teachings (of being celibate), then why wouldn’t I become a priest?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

“It is probably wise to avoid wherever possible using the words ‘homosexual’ and ‘heterosexual’ as nouns since such usage implies a fixed state and an equivalence between the natural state of man and woman as created by God and persons experiencing same sex attraction or behaviour” (Statement of the Catholic Medical Association, November 2000)

What is being implied by the Catholic Medical Association? That homosexuals are not to be regarded as fully (equivalent to) man or woman?

 

[larkin31]

… Mutual masturbation and oral foreplay that does not end with intercourse are grave sins for the married. Homosexual relations are wrong because it is not natural, and not procreative. Sodomy and solo masturbation are grave sins for everyone.
…

These are neurotic teachings, born of sexual repression and extremism.

 

[larkin31]

Our purpose here is to get ourselves and others to heaven by following the teachings of the Jesus and His Church. The Church is always guided by the Holy Spirit when teaching on faith and morals…

Our purpose here is justice and love.