Irregular Liturgy, possible abuses?

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People seem to be wandering away from the idea of liturgical abuses, or their complaints are rather narrow. So I’m going to bring the discussion back to topic by listing some of the liturgical abuses which I have personally witnessed:

The organist/singer blasting, and I mean blasting as loud as you can get and wailing, the country western song “Proud to be an American” during Communion.

School children putting on a Christmas Play in the Sanctuary, during mass, while their parents jumped around taking pictures.

The priest handing Host after Host to a row of seated people and telling them to pass it down.

Many churches without crosses, crucifixes, statuary, nothing to indicate that it was a church, and a very large number of Communion vessels ( in order to accommodate the ridiculous number of Eucharistic Ministers) all made of glass.

A priest stopping while passing out Communion to comment, in a joking manner, on my daughter’s nail polish.

A priest, during his homily, telling people NOT to pray. Take care of your problems yourself, God doesn’t want to be bothered.

Multiple homilies extolling the virtues of nonreligious people or figures from other religions eg., Buddah, Dr. Wayne Dwyer, George Washington . (while repeatedly saying he was a Mason) etc.

A mass which was a comedy roast for the Deacons. The entire homily devoted to their antics and escapades over the years, repleat with applause, laughter, etc. No mention of God.

General absolution during Penance Services. This being done every month for years. No individual Confessions heard.

A woman conducting a “Communion Service” as if she were a priest saying the Mass, with the people in the pews responding as if it were a Mass.

A priest saying "St. Tiffany pray for us, " during a Baptism service.

I did not personally hear this, but my daughter reported that the priest at her closest church stated “This isn’t a Church, it is a meeting hall.”

This is just a small sample of what could be called “Liturgical” abuses. This says nothing about the behavior of people in Church, before, during, and after “Liturgical” events eg., loud talking and laughing in front of the tabernacle (when you can find one) before and after Mass. Cracking open a can of pop and drinking it during Mass. Smoking in the back vestibule during a Confirmation. Wearing almost no clothes. Wearing shorts and sandals to take up the collection or bring up the gifts. Wearing really short skirts while doing the readings. Couples mauling each other or their children all through Mass. Choir masters throwing their jacket over the head of a statue of Mary, or leaving their baseball hats on in Church. Secular or school events being conducted in church, as if it were an auditorium, with no mention of God or prayer but plenty of applause for the people involved. Children being permitted to run around the Church or scream or cry without any consideration for others.

Again, I could say more, but you get the idea.

Let’s not pretend this is about the sexual orientation of anyone, including the priest. Or whether so and so is a murderer. Give me a break.

It’s about the complete lack of respect for God, as reflected in the Liturgy and the attitude of those who attend Church. This disrespect is not occassional. It is habitual, it is ubiquitous, it is institutionalized.

Find a Latin Mass. Attend. If you care.
 
This is a continuation of the above post because my husband wanted me to include the time we were attending a Church located in the ghetto of the inner city. The Liturgy was becoming increasingly Baptist in its orientation, in order to appeal to the local community. The priest would regularly punctuate his sentences with “Can I get an Amen.” There was a push on to turn the entire service into a social occasion. A nun from the school gave a talk after Mass and said, and this really is the quote: ** “After we get them in here, we don’t have anything to offer them.” **
This was said in the context of their push to have Catholics befriend the locals who might happen to wander in.

Maybe things have gotten so out of hand that Jesus is not present during many of these services. Maybe she was right. But, it would nice to still believe that a nun, a religious sister, still believes that we have the same thing to offer that we’ve had for the past 2000 years: the perpetual and perfect Sacrifice for our Sins, the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
Maureen1125 said:
How do you know?? How do you have any idea as to the sins committed or not committed of the EM? Unless that person has confessed these sins to the Priest, he has no way of knowing if they are adulterers, child abuses, porn watchers, masturbaters, theives, animal abusers…how can you honestly say they are not allowed to be EMs…when no one - other then God himself truly knows the sins of this person?

As to the homosexual gentleman - why not be a true christian and welcome them. Help them to come to know the Lord. You say they are not “Catholic” - one of our missions as Catholics is to evangalize. Reach out to these men. Offer to sponsor them in RCIA if they are interested. Instead of judging them - as the Lord is the only one with any right to Judge - pray for them, welcome them, befriend them and above all else, share your faith with them
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Thank you for this post. We are all sinners and it is not for us to decide who can attend mass or who can receive communion. I recall an apologist on CAF in response to a query from someone on whether he should ask the priest not to allow his mother to receive the host as she was pro choice, answered in the negative. If we ask all we know or think are sinners to leave the church, churches will be empty.
 
SaintGobban said:
This is a continuation of the above post because my husband wanted me to include the time we were attending a Church located in the ghetto of the inner city. The Liturgy was becoming increasingly Baptist in its orientation, in order to appeal to the local community. The priest would regularly punctuate his sentences with “Can I get an Amen.” There was a push on to turn the entire service into a social occasion. A nun from the school gave a talk after Mass and said, and this really is the quote: ** “After we get them in here, we don’t have anything to offer them.” **
This was said in the context of their push to have Catholics befriend the locals who might happen to wander in.

Maybe things have gotten so out of hand that Jesus is not present during many of these services. Maybe she was right. But, it would nice to still believe that a nun, a religious sister, still believes that we have the same thing to offer that we’ve had for the past 2000 years: the perpetual and perfect Sacrifice for our Sins, the Body and Blood of Christ.
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i know I don’t usually agree with you SaintG, but I have to say the abuses you listed in the post before this one made my blood run cold and I can understand your concern and wanting to ring alarm bells, if that’s what’s going on in some parts of the USA.

I’ve never seen what you’ve listed, but perhaps I’ve been lucky.

I can sort of understand what the nun meant, though, can’t you? Having got them to Mass, human nature being what it is, she knew they could easily backslide if not encouraged by community events (for instance). I know the Mass should be everything, and eventually it ould be, but meanwhile…I suppose I’m thinkling of the Feeding of the Five thousand - Jesus didn’t just preach, he gave the crowds something.

Was there something about this ghetto that meant this approach could be seen as the best way to go? A lot of poverty, or Protestant churches being very strong or something?
Where was it?
 
My apologies for all the typos! I’ve just thought of something else to say, and was horrified to see all the mistakes although '‘thinkling’ made me grin.

The only two cities in the USA I associate with ghettos are Washington DC, where I’ve been, and was struck with the difference crossing from one side of the road to the other made, and Detroit, where my niece has just come back from. She said it was so striking and sad to see acres of devastation and neglect, with grass growing up between paving-stones.
 
This was issued by the Masonic Lodge in Italy prior to Vatican II Effective Mar 1962:
  1. Remove St. Michael, the protector of the Catholic Church, from every prayer whether inside or outside of the Mass, once and for all. Remove all of his statues. Say that it detracts from Christ.
  2. Put a stop to practice of penance during Lent, such as eating no meat on Fridays, or fasting. Halt any acts of self-denial. Replace by acts of joy, happiness and love of neighbor,
  3. Assign Protestant Ministers to revise and desacredize the Mass. Instigate doubts that the Eucharist is closer to the Protestants belief that it is only bread and symbolic.
  4. Stop all Latin in Mass Liturgy, and devotions and songs. It lends a feeling of mystery and respect.
  5. Encourage the ladies to remove their hats in Church. And demand to be Acolytes and Priestesses. Base it on the Constitution. Start a women’s liberation.
  6. Code: 
    Stop Communicants from kneeling to receive the Host. Tell Nuns to stop the children from folding their hands to and from Communion. Tell them that God loves them as they are, and wants them to be relaxed.
  7. Stop sacred organ music. Bring in Guitars, Drums, and stomping of the feet. This will prevent any personal prayer or conversation with Jesus. Don’t give Jesus time to call children to religious vocations.
  8. Profane hymns to the Mother of God, St. Joseph. Call it idolatry. Replace with Protestant songs. This will imply that the Catholic Church is finally admitting that Protestantism is at least equal to the Catholic Church.
  9. Code: 
    Replace all hymns, even to Jesus. This reminds people of their sweet childhood, which will in turn remind them of the peace that came from living a rigorous life of self-denial and penance for God. Bring in only new songs, to convince people that the former rites were somehow wrong. Be sure to have at least one song in each Mass that never mentions Jesus, but only love of humans.
  10. Remove all Saints relics from Altars, and then remove the altars themselves. Replace with Pagan, unblessed tables, which will be used to offer live sacrifice at Satan Masses. Repeal the Church law that says that Mass in Churches can only be said on altars containing Saint’s relics.
  11. Stop the practice of saying Mass before the Holy Eucharist in the Tabernacle. Do not allow any Tabernacles on the tables used for the Mass. Make the table look like a dinner table. Make it portable, to imply that it is not sacred, but could do double duty for anything. Later, put at least one chair at this table. Make the Priest sit in this, after Communion to signify that he rests after his meal. Never let the Priest kneel at Mass, nor genuflect people don’t kneel at meals.
  12. Code: 
     Remove Saints from the Church calendar, a few at a time. Forbid the Priests the right to talk about Saints, unless mentioned in the Gospel. Say that there might be Protestants in the Church .
  13. When introducing the Gospels, drop the word Saint, in Gospel according to Saint John, or any other Saint. Simply say, Gospel according to John. This will imply that people should not honor them anymore. Keep rewriting Bibles until identical to Protestants!
  14. Remove and destroy all personal prayer books. This will stop Litanies to the Sacred Heart, the Blessed Mother, St. Joseph, and preparation for Communion. It will also effectively reduce thanksgiving after Communion to a sham.
  15. Remove all statues and pictures of Angels. Why have statues of our enemies around? Call it a myth or a bedtime story.
  16. Eliminate the Minor Order of Exorcist, for expelling Devils. Work hard on this one. Sell the idea that there is not a real Devil. Say it is the Bible’s way of representing evil, and there can’t be a good story without a villain. Then they will not believe in Hell either, and will never be afraid of going there. Say that Hell is nothing more but being away from God,
  17. Teach that Jesus was only a human, who had brothers and sisters, and He hated the establishment. Say that He loved the company of prostitutes, especially Mary Magdalene. Say that He had no use for Churches.
  18. Remember that you can cause Nuns to quit, by appealing to their vanity, charm and beauty; make them change their Habits, which will automatically make them throw away their Rosaries. Show the world that there is dissention in their Convents,
  19. Burn all Catechisms. Tell religion teachers to teach love of God’s people, instead of love of God. Tell them it is mature, to love openly.
  20. Close all Catholic Schools by reducing the number of Nun’s vocations. Say that Nuns are just underpaid social workers.
  21. Destroy the Pope by destroying his Empire of Universities. Separate universities from the Pope by saying that the government would then be glad to give them grants of money. Change the names of religious institutions to profane names, .
  22. Attack the Pope’s authority, by setting an age limit on his services. Reduce this gradually.
  23. Be bold, weaken the Pope by setting up a Bishop’s Synod. The Pope will then be a figurehead, Then weaken the Bishop’s authority by setting up a counterpart at the Priest’s level. Say that the Priests are finally getting the recognition they deserve. Then weaken the Priest’s authority by setting up lay groups to boss the Priests .
  24. Reduce Priest’s vocations by losing the respect of the Laity. One scandal of a Priest in politics will lose thousands of vocations. Praise fallen away Priests, who give up everything for the love of a woman. Call them heroic. Honor laicized Priests, as true martyrs who were being oppressed and couldn’t take it any longer.
  25. Start closing Churches, because of lack of Priests, call it good business practice. Say that God listens to prayers anywhere,
 
  1. Use Lay Commissions and weak faith Priests to quickly condemn and disapprove of any new apparitions of the Blessed Mother or any alleged miracles, especially of St. Michael, the Archangel. Be absolutely certain that none whatever get approval after Vatican II. Then call it disobedience to authority if anybody follows the messages, or repeats them or EVEN THINKS about them.
  2. Pass a law to disband the Curia each time a new Pope comes in. This is certain to insure that the Curia will contain many radicals and modernists.
  3. Elect an Anti-Pope. Say that he will bring the Protestants back into the Church, and maybe even the Jews. Anti-Pope can be elected by giving the vote to the Bishops. There will be so many Popes nominated that an Anti-Pope will get in as a compromise Pope.
  4. Eliminate Confession before first Holy Communion for 2nd and 3rd Grade children, so that they will not bother about Confession before Communion when they get into 4th or 5th or higher grades either. Confession will then disappear.
  5. Get women and laity to give Communion, say that this is the Age of the Laity. Start giving Communion in the hand like the Protestants, instead of on the tongue – say that Christ did it this way. Collect some for Satanic Masses. Then replace individual Communion by a bowl of wafers, to be taken on leaving the Church. Say that they will then carry God’s gift into their daily lives. Install Communion vending machines, call them Tabernacles.
Bring Back the Traditional Latin Mass. Then we will have our proper respect and reverence in Liturgy and Adoration. It will be as it should’ve always been…our particular identity as Catholics.
 
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