Irritated by "sheep stealing"

[manualman]

Flocks that are meaningfully shepherded are fairly resistant to “sheep-stealing,” and my guess is, Catholics who inveigh against the practice are often getting mad at the wrong people.

This is a devastatingly true statement. If you haven’t been to rural South America (and I have), you don’t understand what it is like there. The catholic faith may seem monolithic in these communities from a casual outside observance, but the reality is that few know the first thing about the faith. They may have been baptized, but for many they don’t have any clue what that baptism did or what it meant. The church there is in many cases impressive looking from afar, but a rotten ruin up close. In many cases, all it takes is a small evangelical group to come along and give a good shove and the whole structure collapses.

Much as it pains me and causes massive conflict in the community, we’ll all be better in the end when the conflict causes people to wake from their lethargy and seek to learn and defend their faith. I just hope it happens before South America becomes as polarized and scandalous to the world as Europe and North America.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

This is a good point. But like I have said, I guess the main point that makes me angry is the idea “Catholics aren’t Christian”. Imagine someone knocking on your door telling you that you are not a part of whatever faith you may adhere to. It would be an irritating insult.

No doubt. Still, if a bit of workaday observation established that I might well NOT be adhering to that faith, and might not actually understand the basic elements of that faith, calling me on it and proposing the proverbial “more excellent way” is doing me a favor. Additionally, acting as if I belong to my present church in any but the most nominal way isn’t really paying that church a compliment.

I also dislike any assertion that Catholics ipso facto aren’t Christian. However, it’s easy to envision communities where many individuals fancy themselves Catholic, but are neither Christian nor, properly understood, Catholic. Substitute “Baptist,” “Lutheran,” or “Pentecostal” for “Catholic” in the above sentence, and my point still stands, adjusting for place. Let’s turn it around. A Catholic mission who visited a Protestant community of a similar type, and converted people into devout, whole-hearted Catholics, would be doing them and their souls a world of good, and would earn my applause and admiration.

And what about your children? Would you want them to come away confused about what to believe?

Well, I don’t have children, but if I did, I’d rather they encountered trenchant objections to their faith sooner rather than later. The longer they go without getting challenged or acquainted with the difficulties of the faith, the more discombobulating it’ll be when it (inevitably) happens later in life, and the likelier they might be to suspect they’d been sold a bill of goods in childhood.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I wouldn’t worry about it. If a person is devout, how can they be stolen by anyone?

Besides, shouldn’t the best man win anyway?

 

[GodIsGracious]

I wish you would stop making statements about me like this. I am NOT religious. Because of my Catholic upbringing, I have sympathy for Catholics and the Catholic Church, but that does not mean I am religious. The ignorance of Protestants who think that Catholics are not Christian gets on my nerves.

I hear ya. For nearly 2 decades I was not practicing Catholicism, the religion I was born into.

I can’t even count the number of times that whenever one of my friends (who was protestant) tried to “swoop down” for the kill like vultures and “extend a friendly invite” to go to their church from a heretical oppressive church that the Catholic church is. Yes, they’ve told me that.

My response was always no. When pressed for why I’d tell them why would I want to attend a church that has only partial truths if I’m not even going to be attending the one True Church the Catholic Church that Jesus Christ started. Then I made the analogy of it’s like I’m being offered steak. I don’t want meat, but I grew up on steak and I don’t want it. Now someone else is wanting me to try their ground hamburger? Uhm. No.

It. Never. Failed. Whenever someone found out I was “lapsed” and not practicing my faith they would invariably go into why the Catholic church was evil, wrong, etc. etc. I’d have to remind them that I was not practicing, not that I was against it.

 

[josie_L]

I’ve been called both.

It’s interesting that with a gender-neutral name, some people assume he and some assume she.

Maybe it’s that on some days I’m more in touch with my feminine side than others.

I can’t understand why people confuse me for a “he”, I always thought my name (Josie) was decidely feminine.

P.S. That was funny!

 

[simplynoone]

simplynoone,

I am afraid of starting a tangent here, but I was curious to know what teachings of St-Paul you object to?

God Bless,
Derek

No need for tangents. Two words will sum up what it is you are asking: Replacement Theology

I wish you would stop making statements about me like this. I am NOT religious. Because of my Catholic upbringing, I have sympathy for Catholics and the Catholic Church, but that does not mean I am religious. The ignorance of Protestants who think that Catholics are not Christian gets on my nerves.

I am just responding honestly to the post you shared with all of us. Catholics do the same to those of other beliefs and that it does not bother you when they do it shows your hypocrisy which leans toward the Catholic religion. Thus, you must still believe their ways else that makes you hypocritical without a reason. I would think you at least want to be hypocritical toward a cause you believe in, no? Maybe not.

 

[simplynoone]

I hear ya. For nearly 2 decades I was not practicing Catholicism, the religion I was born into.

I can’t even count the number of times that whenever one of my friends (who was protestant) tried to “swoop down” for the kill like vultures and “extend a friendly invite” to go to their church from a heretical oppressive church that the Catholic church is. Yes, they’ve told me that.

My response was always no. When pressed for why I’d tell them why would I want to attend a church that has only partial truths if I’m not even going to be attending the one True Church the Catholic Church that Jesus Christ started. Then I made the analogy of it’s like I’m being offered steak. I don’t want meat, but I grew up on steak and I don’t want it. Now someone else is wanting me to try their ground hamburger? Uhm. No.

It. Never. Failed. Whenever someone found out I was “lapsed” and not practicing my faith they would invariably go into why the Catholic church was evil, wrong, etc. etc. I’d have to remind them that I was not practicing, not that I was against it.

*Point of mine only proved by the above *

 

[GodIsGracious]

*Point of mine only proved by the above *

How does my post prove your point?

 

[Matariel]

Um, get over it? Don’t get mad cause some people are better at spreading faith then other’s.

That was rude of you. “Spreading the faith” is quite different than trashing others beliefs as un-Christian and shoving Bibles in their hands, like many Protestants do to Catholics. Heck, their denominations aren’t even apostolic like the Catholic Church, and they still accuse Catholics of being non-Christians.

 

[Matariel]

No need for tangents. Two words will sum up what it is you are asking: Replacement Theology

I am just responding honestly to the post you shared with all of us. Catholics do the same to those of other beliefs and that it does not bother you when they do it shows your hypocrisy which leans toward the Catholic religion. Thus, you must still believe their ways else that makes you hypocritical without a reason. I would think you at least want to be hypocritical toward a cause you believe in, no? Maybe not.

No, you’re wrong. The Original Poster was saying how he/she gets ticked off that many Protestants attack Catholics as un-Christian. It’s not hypocritical because the Catholic Church teaches that Protestants are in fact Christian. So I think your attitude towards the Original Poster was uncalled for.

 

[Matariel]

I wouldn’t worry about it. If a person is devout, how can they be stolen by anyone?

Besides, shouldn’t the best man win anyway?

It’s not people converting or choosing on their own that bothers the OP. What bothers them is the fact that, while the Church considers the Protestants within the various sects and denominations Christian, many Protestant groups hate the Church, call it evil, and say Catholics are sons of the Devil, and ultimately accuse them of being non-Christians.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

If the children in the pictures were young, any teaching would probably have been basic Christian beliefs not in conflict with Catholicism (God made you, God loves you, Jesus is God’s son, love God and each other, etc.) The bibles were probably OK too even if they omitted a few old testament books. The basic message they probably got was that some Americans who love God care about them.

Even the message that we all need to accept Christ as our savior is a true one (although we know that a one-time profession of faith doesn’t guarantee heaven).

 

[BareKnuckler]

That was rude of you. “Spreading the faith” is quite different than trashing others beliefs as un-Christian and shoving Bibles in their hands, like many Protestants do to Catholics. Heck, their denominations aren’t even apostolic like the Catholic Church, and they still accuse Catholics of being non-Christians.

No it wasn’t it was true. Wow, really? So your saying Catholics don’t trash other people’s beliefs? If so, then your a liar.

Not all of them, false claim…

If anyone is being rude it’s you for making false claims.

 

[Matariel]

No it wasn’t it was true. Wow, really? So your saying Catholics don’t trash other people’s beliefs? If so, then your a liar.

I never said that. I never said all Catholics don’t trash other people’s beliefs. I said the Church aknowledges Protestants as Christians, but many Protestant sects don’t acknowledge the Church as Christian.

 

[thirdn6]

IF the Lord Jesus Christ didn’t build a Church there would be no Catholic Church.
IF there is no Catholic Church there would be no catholics.
IF there is no catholic there is no one to steal…

BUT the Lord Jesus Christ built a Church and so there is the Catholic Church.
Now that there is this Catholic Church hence catholics.

So, here come the wolves…

 

[josie_L]

No it wasn’t it was true. Wow, really? So your saying Catholics don’t trash other people’s beliefs? If so, then your a liar.

Not all of them, false claim…

If anyone is being rude it’s you for making false claims.

Material is correct in stating this, there are many fundamentalist/protestant preachers who have made a pretty good living kicking the CC to the ground. The whole “whore of Babylon” and “anti christ” attributed to the Church is as old as the reformation.

 

[BareKnuckler]

Material is correct in stating this, there are many fundamentalist/protestant preachers who have made a pretty good living kicking the CC to the ground. The whole “whore of Babylon” and “anti christ” attributed to the Church is as old as the reformation.

I never said that. I never said all Catholics don’t trash other people’s beliefs. I said the Church aknowledges Protestants as Christians, but many Protestant sects don’t acknowledge the Church as Christian.

Every church I’ve ever been to (Let’s say 20) has never said that, and most don’t really care about the RCC, my church never talked about Catholics, in any of their sermons meetings or festivities.

I think the sects, your reffering to, are sects, most protestants don’t mingle with.

One of them being the Westboro Baptist Church (They are not in any Baptist organizations, they have that name, probably cause their original pastor was a ex-baptist pastor) are one of the most famed “protestant” sect, yet most protestants can’t stand them cause of their actions (protesting at soldiers funerals, attacking others, calling all others doomed people, no matter what) and yes they are also anti-catholic, but they are also anti-anyone who isn’t in that specific family. Most of the people in that church alone are related to the pastor and his family, which are mostly freaks if you ask me, cause they hate everyone, and when they are asked why, they call the sinners, and they don’t acknowledge that they are sinners themselves.

 

[josie_L]

Every church I’ve ever been to (Let’s say 20) has never said that, and most don’t really care about the RCC, my church never talked about Catholics, in any of their sermons meetings or festivities.

I think the sects, your reffering to, are sects, most protestants don’t mingle with.

One of them being the Westboro Baptist Church (They are not in any Baptist organizations, they have that name, probably cause their original pastor was a ex-baptist pastor) are one of the most famed “protestant” sect, yet most protestants can’t stand them cause of their actions (protesting at soldiers funerals, attacking others, calling all others doomed people, no matter what) and yes they are also anti-catholic, but they are also anti-anyone who isn’t in that specific family. Most of the people in that church alone are related to the pastor and his family, which are mostly freaks if you ask me, cause they hate everyone, and when they are asked why, they call the sinners, and they don’t acknowledge that they are sinners themselves.

I’m glad the churches you went to don’t speak of such things, but just because you have not witnessed it doesn’t negate the fact that it exists. Karl Keating, the person behind Catholic Answers wrote a book concerning the issues of which I speak, it’s called “Catholicism and Fundamentalism”. And has I stated before calling the CC the “whore of Babylon” is as old as the reformation. The SDAs, the Fundamentalists (in part), Jehovah Witnesses, Bob Jones University, the Tim Lehaye series (books that throw a bad light on Catholicism), James White (of Alpha and Omega ministries), Dave Hunt . . . . the list goes on and on of how many people view Catholicism negatively. That is why the OP is upset and so am I to tell the truth. We should be converting those who are not Christian.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Every church I’ve ever been to (Let’s say 20) has never said that, and most don’t really care about the RCC, my church never talked about Catholics, in any of their sermons meetings or festivities.

I think the sects, your reffering to, are sects, most protestants don’t mingle with.

That’s not entirely true. Extremists always make the news.

One of them being the Westboro Baptist Church (They are not in any Baptist organizations, they have that name, probably cause their original pastor was a ex-baptist pastor) are one of the most famed “protestant” sect, yet most protestants can’t stand them cause of their actions (protesting at soldiers funerals, attacking others, calling all others doomed people, no matter what) and yes they are also anti-catholic, but they are also anti-anyone who isn’t in that specific family. Most of the people in that church alone are related to the pastor and his family, which are mostly freaks if you ask me, cause they hate everyone, and when they are asked why, they call the sinners, and they don’t acknowledge that they are sinners themselves.

The people who attend Westboro, and the guy who started it, are all crackpots. He’s insane and his followers are decidedly not Christian. They’re not the norm. You hear about them because they’re the extremists who make the news. And the news certainly does want to bash Christianity in general. They are held up as, “See what religion does to people!” when that’s not the case.

I have experienced many a time in my life where I have met Protestants who are so anti-catholic I ceased talking to them simply because they weren’t interested in hearing the truth but just what their preacher has to say. And it surely seemed like their preacher didn’t know much.

 

[Libertarian_FL]

I don’t wish to offend anyone here but I have to say this bluntly. Last time I looked people had free will. minds of their own and their own moral conscience so what gives any side the right to claim they are “stealing” that which by natural law is not there to control? These are not cattle but human beings if they choose to go to one faith or another what business is that of yours?

In fact I find both sides here horribly offensive the Roman Catholics for pretty much not giving these people such a limited world view and no option for any other faith. And the evangelicals for taking advantage of these people who should have a free choice like I have in the US and exposure to many faith paths. But no they again use the same approach and take advantage of these people and use charity on both sides as the weapon.

You should both be utterly ashamed of this.