Irritated by "sheep stealing"

[Neil_Anthony]

Hi,

I no longer consider my Catholic (I am now a sort of atheist agnostic). However…

The “stealing” of Catholic “sheep” by Evangelical Christians REALLY gets to me.

…

I was taken aback. Although the trip was primarily a medical trip (you know, to teach people basic health care and first aide), I know that they did some “gospel preachin’”, too.

I don’t really understand why… you didn’t accept Catholicism, but you’re against people preaching the gospel to people who have been Catholic for generations…

Are you opposed to the free exchange of ideas? Do you think peruvian villagers are too backward to think for themselves?

I guess your faith experience didn’t include having a personal relationship with Christ. It was all about traditions passed from generation to generation. Perhaps you never heard the gospel either… its sad, but it explains why you left the faith

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You obviously didn’t get what she/he was trying to say.

What he’s trying to say is that it’s wrong when Protestants do it, but perfectly acceptable when Catholics do it.

 

[josie_L]

What he’s trying to say is that it’s wrong when Protestants do it, but perfectly acceptable when Catholics do it.

No, that’s not what he/she said, he/she said that the premise behind the evangelization of Catholics by Evangelicals is that they view them as non-christians, and as such, tell Catholics in South America that they are not saved, which is a lie.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

No, that’s not what he/she said, he/she said that the premise behind the evangelization of Catholics by Evangelicals is that they view them as non-christians, and as such, tell Catholics in South America that they are not saved, which is a lie.

I see. So then why do Catholics “evangelize” Protestants?

 

[SonofMonica]

What he’s trying to say is that it’s wrong when Protestants do it, but perfectly acceptable when Catholics do it.

We’re not “doing” the same thing. Catholics are not going to stop teaching that they belong to the one Church founded by Jesus Christ. But they are also not going to try to “save” individual protestants, who already are baptized and follow Christ.

There’s a difference between a baptist saying “baptists have it right” and “if you’re Methodist, you’re going to hell by default.” Catholics are saying the former about themselves, and these evangelicals are saying the latter about the targeted individual.

 

[East_Anglican]

I see. So then why do Catholics “evangelize” Protestants?

Here comes all that stuff about Sint peter and Apostolic Succesionand the one true church in its fullness stuff.

I’m so glad all the RC’s I know in the real world don’t think like that.

 

[josie_L]

I see. So then why do Catholics “evangelize” Protestants?

We evangelize everyone, but we don’t specifically target Protestants, if you understand what I mean?

 

[Matariel]

Here comes all that stuff about Sint peter and Apostolic Succesionand the one true church in its fullness stuff.

I’m so glad all the RC’s I know in the real world don’t think like that.

Well, our Church was founded by our Lord on the Apostles, specifically St. Peter, the head of the Apostles, and our Church does have apostolic succession, all seven Sacraments. Why have bits and pieces of Christianity when you can have the whole thing? That’s why I converted from Protestantism to the Catholic Church. And my cousin is also converting.

 

[GodIsGracious]

And you really don’t see the hypocrisy in this statement?

No, I don’t.

 

[GodIsGracious]

I am not aware of any Catholic organization going after Christians of other denominations. If this is true I would be interested in hearing factual accounts of this happening.

I know that my friends who belong to a mega church went every year for two weeks to different countries to bring people who were already Christians into their fold. They went after the Orthodox and the Catholics. They also asked me and many others to help fund their trips. When they were near Russia there was an area of Muslims, they made no attempt to evangelize the Muslims, only the Orthodox and Catholics.

Interesting!

I’ve shared my experiences while I was “out there” and a lapsed Catholic. Like vultures Protestants would swoop down and immediately invite me to their church.

Clearly it’s almost as if it’s another feather in their cap if they can “get” one of us. I think this says something. I think it says something because for many of these Protestants who earnestly target Orthodox and Catholics most likely feel deep down in their heart that we’re the One True Church. Sort of like a game. And I felt that way too when I was approached.

Of course I declined giving them any money. They also enjoyed a vacation while on these trips paid for by others.

Of course they did! If they are sincere in their evangelical pursuits, let them use their own money. Let them stay with “converts” over at their destination.

Otherwise the wife is a very lovely person, I have known them for many many years. They are fanactical about their church, which has split three times now due to disagreements and pride. The Pastor is paid a large salary and the only thing he does is prepare a sermon for one service on Sunday. They have many ministries that do the real work. Also the Pastor is my friends cousin and she relates what is going on at the church. She does question some things, but has never searched the history of Christianity or the Early Church Fathers. At one time they belonged to the Episcopal church.

The only converts I know are ones that became interested in what the Church taught and sought it out. Not one of them have told me that Catholics came knocking at their doors or pressured them to convert.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Yeah, every Catholic I have met that joined a Protestant church lacked knowledge of their faith, was looking for something OTHER THAN worship of God, and were approached by a Protestant.

It is, truly, by the Holy Spirit that I did not fall for that and stayed firm in saying no to those invites.

BTW, if these Christians were being Christian, why do they offer services (medical/food/shelter) as a ruse to get people to hear their message? Why can’t they just offer these services with no strings attached? I believe Christ did that.

 

[BernadetteM]

Interesting!

I’ve shared my experiences while I was “out there” and a lapsed Catholic. Like vultures Protestants would swoop down and immediately invite me to their church.

Clearly it’s almost as if it’s another feather in their cap if they can “get” one of us. I think this says something. I think it says something because for many of these Protestants who earnestly target Orthodox and Catholics most likely feel deep down in their heart that we’re the One True Church. Sort of like a game. And I felt that way too when I was approached.

GodslGracious,

Yes I agree that many protestants know that the Catholic Church is the true Church. But if they were to convert they would have to admit that they have been wrong. Why are so many vindictive against the Church. If in your heart you know that you are in Christ’s Church I would think you would feel at peace and just pray for others to find the same truth, not to try to convert them. If one is truely living their Christian faith, others notice and sometimes this example will move them to want the love they see in Catholics and convert because of the love that is shown. I have also heard protestants claim that they had saved people from hell. Only God saves people from hell, not man.

Of course they did! If they are sincere in their evangelical pursuits, let them use their own money. Let them stay with “converts” over at their destination.

That is another question I have had about these people. They go over to other countries and give the Catholics or Orthodox a bible and are on their way home. True missionaries would stay with the people, live with them and help them, showing by example what a true Christian is. I am aware that some protestants and Adventists live within these communities but I don’t know if they are trying to convert Catholics or people of no faith. Catholic priests live in muslims countries and put their lives on the line everyday. I am not saying that there aren,t some protestants who live in those countires and that they are also persected, but the majority of murders are of Catholics.

Yeah, every Catholic I have met that joined a Protestant church lacked knowledge of their faith, was looking for something OTHER THAN worship of God, and were approached by a Protestant.

I know several Catholics that have no idea what the Church teaches. This is such a danger to them, but I think many Catholics just aren’t interested in the deeper spiritual aspects of the faith. They are usually cradle Catholics and just continue going to Mass as they did as a child. They don’t grow in the faith and when a protestant tells them how exciting their church is, they start going and yes it can be much more entertaining at the services. I am not speaking of liturgical churches, more of the fundamentalist or mega church groups.

It is, truly, by the Holy Spirit that I did not fall for that and stayed firm in saying no to those invites.

BTW, if these Christians were being Christian, why do they offer services (medical/food/shelter) as a ruse to get people to hear their message? Why can’t they just offer these services with no strings attached? I believe Christ did that.

Yes I agree with that, many of these groups offer food. medical help etc. and then expect the people to join their church. I have read on forums where protestants say terrible things about Mother Theresa, that she wasn’t a Christian because she didn’t cram her religion down the throats of those she helped. No of course not Mother Theresa lived the life of a true Christian and by her holiness I am sure many hearts were reached.

Bernadette

 

[East_Anglican]

Well, our Church was founded by our Lord on the Apostles, specifically St. Peter, the head of the Apostles, and our Church does have apostolic succession, all seven Sacraments. Why have bits and pieces of Christianity when you can have the whole thing? That’s why I converted from Protestantism to the Catholic Church. And my cousin is also converting.

I really couldn’t care less about your church or my church. Jesus said he’d build his church and not anybody elses and I’m not talking about ecumenicalism either. Either the rest of us are part of Christs church or we’re not saved.

As for Apostolic Succesion. I don’t believe it exists.
.

 

[East_Anglican]

I’ve shared my experiences while I was “out there” and a lapsed Catholic. Like vultures Protestants would swoop down and immediately invite me to their church.

So you beliewve it’s better to be a lapse catholic not serving Christ then to be involved in a Protestant church?

That’s disgusting!

Clearly it’s almost as if it’s another feather in their cap if they can “get” one of us. I think this says something.

You honestly think we’re that bothered?

I think it says something because for many of these Protestants who earnestly target Orthodox and Catholics most likely feel deep down in their heart that we’re the One True Church. Sort of like a game. And I felt that way too when I was approached.

Yeah, every Catholic I have met that joined a Protestant church lacked knowledge of their faith, was looking for something OTHER THAN worship of God, and were approached by a Protestant.

They were looking for somthing.

Why couldn’t they find it in Roman Cathlicism?

It is, truly, by the Holy Spirit that I did not fall for that and stayed firm in saying no to those invites.

You’ve been snared by bigoted nonsense and can’t see it.

BTW, if these Christians were being Christian, why do they offer services (medical/food/shelter) as a ruse to get people to hear their message? Why can’t they just offer these services with no strings attached? I believe Christ did that.

Why don’t people like you stop being so bigoted? Then the world may know who Christs diciples are.

.

 

[ChrissiM]

Protestant missionaries have no business in traditional catholic Countrys. It’s that simple.

 

[East_Anglican]

Protestant missionaries have no business in traditional catholic Countrys. It’s that simple.

Sectarianism sucks.

 

[SonofMonica]

Sectarianism sucks.

I say sectarianism is a symptom of the root problem–teaching different doctrine that what was handed down via the apostolic succession, which you so despise and disbelieve. What do you think the cause of sectarianism is?

 

[East_Anglican]

I say sectarianism is a symptom of the root problem–teaching different doctrine that what was handed down via the apostolic succession, which you so despise and disbelieve.

I disagree.

What do you think the cause of sectarianism is?

People trusting in other things first rather then trusting in Christ.

 

[GraceDK]

Protestant missionaries have no business in traditional catholic Countrys. It’s that simple.

I dont agree.
Actually I live in a Lutheran country. It chose freely to be Lutheran 500 years ago. Now the population is still baptised and confirmed and buried in the Lutheran church here, but at he same time over 90 percent of them live like heathens with no living faith nor repentance from sin.
Should I tell the Catholic missionaries not to come here, because its not fair of them?
Should I tell the Orthodox, or the Messianics or the Evangelicals not to come and preach?
No, let everyone whose tongue drips with the honey of the Gospel and whose hands are filled with the power of the Holy Spirit come to this desert!

 

[SonofMonica]

I disagree.

People trusting in other things first rather then trusting in Christ.

Pretty vague. I can’t really get at what you’re saying. Could you provide a concrete example?

 

[bengland]

The missionaries do target Catholic countries. I have seen too many people target Poland, Italy, Greece (Orthodox), Central and South America and the Philippines. I have never met a missionary in real life or the family of a missionary who was engaged in work in dar al-islam or anywhere else that they are likely to suffer persecution. I did meet one online who went to an Islamic country and lived to tell about it. He’s a Baptist.

Not all of the missionaries make a point of drawing people out of Catholicism. As another poster pointed out, some of the simply go down to rekindle the faith in Christ. Often these small communities don’t have a priest to tend to the flock. He may be working in small communities in a 20 mile radius, coming around only sometimes. The missionaries might even spend their time teaching people how to read.

If you’re concerned about combating the sheep stealers then the thing to do is to become a missionary yourself or support those missionaries who just go down to awaken the people and stimulate the faith. Maybe we need more Catholic missionaries in neglected communities, or we need to better support struggling churches in those regions so that they have the resources, educational and material, to support the Church and the spiritual growth of the people. It helps to have good apologetics material, but there seems to be plenty of that in the necessary languages, although it may not penetrate so well into the communities. They need faith. They need to know about Jesus and not about Saint Death, and they need to know why they believe what they believe.

That said, I do not support Protestant (of any flavor) missionary trips because ultimately many will scatter the flock and it’s too hard to know which is which.

Jer 23:1-2 Woe to the shepherds who mislead and scatter the flock of my pasture, says the LORD. Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds who shepherd my people: You have scattered my sheep and driven them away. You have not cared for them, but I will take care to punish your evil deeds.

That can be read in more than one way.