Irritated by "sheep stealing"

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Sambos671:
Now the first Question 1: Why wasn’t baptism, 1st communion, and confirmation enough to do this for me?
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Because you have free will to sin or not to sin. You have a choice to accept and use to your benefit the grace given by these sacraments, or to go on sinning. God’s grace is conveyed to you in the Eucharist, baptism, etc. but grace is an enabler, not a magic potion. Whether we receive God’s grace through the sacraments or not, we must still recognize the sin in our lives, and repent (literally turn away from) it. I notice you did not mention the sacrament of penance. For this sacrament to actually occur, there must be a change of heart and a true intention to sin no more.

Sadly, I think it is the message of repentance and the hearty use of the sacrament of penance that is missing from the Church at this stage of history. Too many folks are treating the Eucharist as a cure-all, and drinking themselves to damnation. If it takes us converts to revive it, then I will happily be of service to God by promoting true repentance.
 
JohnDeereFan said:
Those…expiating their sin.
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Yes, souls are there because of their sin. The expiation is done by Christ. You still have not shown that the Church teaches we pay for our own sins and earn our way into heaven.
First of all, the 40,000 denominations lie has been debunked long ago.
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Really. So the number is 25,000? 10,000? 15?

Let’s just say that it’s 15 denominations that exist because they’ve read Scripture and decided their doctrine differs from the original one.
I showed you from your very own source where your very own “infallible” leaders…
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Since you bring up the issue of “infallible leaders”, I have another question to ask you. (Still waiting for your church’s/pastor’s interpretatiohn of Peter’s “baptism now saves you” BTW): how could a fallible church give you the infallible Scriptures? Basic logic tells you that a fallible cause cannot create an infallbile effect, yes?
 
SonofMonica said:
Because you have free will to sin or not to sin. You have a choice to accept and use to your benefit the grace given by these sacraments, or to go on sinning. God’s grace is conveyed to you in the Eucharist, baptism, etc. but grace is an enabler, not a magic potion. Whether we receive God’s grace through the sacraments or not, we must still recognize the sin in our lives, and repent (literally turn away from) it. I notice you did not mention the sacrament of penance. For this sacrament to actually occur, there must be a change of heart and a true intention to sin no more.

Sadly, I think it is the message of repentance and the hearty use of the sacrament of penance that is missing from the Church at this stage of history. Too many folks are treating the Eucharist as a cure-all, and drinking themselves to damnation. If it takes us converts to revive it, then I will happily be of service to God by promoting true repentance.
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Penance was the first sacrament I participated in on my return to the faith. 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
Presumably, you enter “heaven” and you are reconciled to your “wife” who accepts you with open arms. 😉
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In keeping with the analogy, I would do well to sleep on the couch while still throwing up from the hangover/drunkeness. My wife does not deserve to be around the effects of my sin. They are disgusting.
 
SonofMonica said:
In keeping with the analogy, I would do well to sleep on the couch while still throwing up from the hangover/drunkeness. My wife does not deserve to be around the effects of my sin. They are disgusting.
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LOL, I realize we’ve analogized purgatory into being a drunk-tank, but all analogies have to break down somewhere. There is still a good lesson in there, though, I’m sure. 😉
 
SonofMonica said:
Question: Have you found that making use of this sacrament has caused you to actually sin less?
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Actually, now that you mention it there was this sin I had problems with my entire life. Since, I repented of it in confession it hasn’t really been a problem. Initially, I thought it had to do with age. But there is a significant distinction between before and after confession. Note. that since going to confession there were things I had done and forgoten about that were brought to my memory allowing me to confess them.
 
sambos671 said:
Actually, now that you mention it there was this sin I had problems with my entire life. Since, I repented of it in confession it hasn’t really been a problem. Initially, I thought it had to do with age. But there is a significant distinction between before and after confession. Note. that since going to confession there were things I had done and forgoten about that were brought to my memory allowing me to confess them.
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Do you think that the fact that it is not a problem has something to do with the priest being a sort of “accountability partner” or someone you don’t want to have to face again, or would you be willing to put a psychological slant on it like that? I imagine finally confessing a big problem and then being too embarrassed to come back in with the same one.
 
SonofMonica said:
Do you think that the fact that it is not a problem has something to do with the priest being a sort of “accountability partner” or someone you don’t want to have to face again, or would you be willing to put a psychological slant on it like that? I imagine finally confessing a big problem and then being too embarrassed to come back in with the same one.
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Yes. but the desire wasn’t there either. I just haven’t thought about it. But yes if I were tempted that would be an issue for me since Father knows my voice and can tell who I am at confession.
 
sambos671 said:
Yes. but the desire wasn’t there either. I just haven’t thought about it. But yes if I were tempted that would be an issue for me since Father knows my voice and can tell who I am at confession.
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Praise God! I am hoping to have the same experience and effect. :o Imagine if we all acted as though we were going to have to tell our dad everything we did.
 
Oh, sambos671, have you noticed a drop in the musical quality since making the swim? I mean the organ is still there, but we might have to form ourselves a group of ex-Episcopalians who can revive a sense of good musical taste in these Catholic parishes… 😉
 
SonofMonica said:
Oh, sambos671, have you noticed a drop in the musical quality since making the swim? I mean the organ is still there, but we might have to form ourselves a group of ex-Episcopalians who can revive a sense of good musical taste in these Catholic parishes… 😉
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Yes the music is lacking and I sometimes miss my old favorite hynms like “Oh for Grace to Trust Him more”; on the other hand I’ve developed a taste for Gregorian Chant and enjoy masses that parts of the liturgy are sung. And I’m comming from a semi Fundalmentalist/Evangelical background.
 
SonofMonica said:
LOL, I realize we’ve analogized purgatory into being a drunk-tank, but all analogies have to break down somewhere. There is still a good lesson in there, though, I’m sure. 😉
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Yes, all analogies fail at some point. But, I think the portrait is a good one.

And, in Catholic theology, it’s Jesus who mediates between the “drunk” on the couch and the wife.
 
sambos671 said:
Yes the music is lacking and I sometimes miss my old favorite hynms like “Oh for Grace to Trust Him more”; on the other hand I’ve developed a taste for Gregorian Chant and enjoy masses that parts of the liturgy are sung. And I’m comming from a semi Fundalmentalist/Evangelical background.
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Ahhh… most often, Tiber-swimming is used to mean converting specifically from being an Anglican to Catholic. I forgot there was a more generalized use of the term. 👍
 
SonofMonica said:
Ahhh… most often, Tiber-swimming is used to mean converting specifically from being an Anglican to Catholic. I forgot there was a more generalized use of the term. 👍
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I’ve been to the Thames but could never rationalize Anglicanism. And I’m more appropiately a Tiber Bungee Jumper. 😃
 
sambos671 said:
I’ve been to the Thames but could never rationalize Anglicanism. And I’m more appropiately a Tiber Bungee Jumper. 😃
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My time in the Thames was short-lived, as well. Only a few years. Found it hard to rationalize, as well. Although I owe it much for introducing my wife to sacramental spirituality.
 
PRmerger said:
Yes, souls are there because of their sin.
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The sin that was forgiven and washed away by Christ?
The expiation is done by Christ. You still have not shown that the Church teaches we pay for our own sins and earn our way into heaven.
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Actually, this is a lie on your part. I showed it to you several times.
Let’s just say that it’s 15 denominations that exist because they’ve read Scripture and decided their doctrine differs from the original one.
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Wrong, as usual.
Since you bring up the issue of “infallible leaders”, I have another question to ask you. (Still waiting for your church’s/pastor’s interpretatiohn of Peter’s “baptism now saves you” BTW): how could a fallible church give you the infallible Scriptures? Basic logic tells you that a fallible cause cannot create an infallbile effect, yes?
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And scripture tells us that the Bible is infallible because it is the word of God and God had His protective hand on it, not because the church, certainly not because the Catholic church, is infallible.
 
JohnDeereFan - Scripture does not tell us what qualifies as scripture, or that any particular collection of scripture constitutes the Word of God. The Catholic Church tells us that. Indisputable historical fact.
 
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